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The W - Football - Bloodbath Weekend, Part Deux (Page 2)
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wmatistic
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
In looking at next weekend, according to the ESPN website, one of the biggest games may not be on tv??? I imagine that has to change before the weekend, but right now Missouri vs Oklahoma isn't showing a network it will be on, including the Gameplan package. That sure would suck.
StingArmy
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Since: 3.5.03
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.90
    Originally posted by wmatistic
      Originally posted by StingArmy
        Originally posted by Sec19Row53
          Originally posted by It's False
          Yikes! And the favorites just keep falling.

          Right behind them is #5 Wisconsin, who lost to Illinois by a 31-26 score.

        Keep in mind that Illinois WAS favored by 2.

      Yes and THAT I still don't get. I mean, Wisconsin WAS the #5 team in the country at the time.

      - StingArmy


    Just means the oddsmakers are smarter than the poll voters.

I think there's a certain 41-point spread that begs to differ with calling the oddsmakers smart. Speaking of which, USC being ranked better than 15 (or really being ranked at all) is a complete traveshamockery.

- StingArmy
wmatistic
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Yeah I would agree they screwed up the line on the Stanford/USC game. These sportswriters trying to make a case that it was bigger than App State/Michigan in any way other than the line are idiots.

USC should still be ranked in my view. Probably around 15 for now until they lose again, which seems likely but you never know with the talent they've got. They may be struggling, but I'd take that team struggling with awesome talent over...well most of the Big 10 other than Ohio State, most of the ACC, and probably the entire Big East. Though USC/USF would be one heck of a "who can turn it over more" battle.
redsoxnation
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.57
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    In looking at next weekend, according to the ESPN website, one of the biggest games may not be on tv??? I imagine that has to change before the weekend, but right now Missouri vs Oklahoma isn't showing a network it will be on, including the Gameplan package. That sure would suck.






Fox Sports Net has the game as part of the either double or triple header they'll show this weekend, unless the Fox Sports Net affiliate in your region is broadcasting an NHL game or an NBA pre-season game that would pre-empt such a broadcast. Unless a game is under the all mighty umbrella of ESPN, they don't consider the other networks to exist.
Battlezone
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.47
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Yeah I would agree they screwed up the line on the Stanford/USC game. These sportswriters trying to make a case that it was bigger than App State/Michigan in any way other than the line are idiots.



Appy State was a two-time defending champion with a history of winning. Stanford is, well, Stanford. Appy State had a veteran quarterback. The starting quarterback for Stanford had thrown exactly one pass prior to Saturday's game. Thanks to Saturday's upset, Applachian State now holds Division 1's longest home winning streak. Stanford hasn't won a home game in almost two years.

Michigan might beat Appalachian State nine out of ten times, but Applachian State beats Stanford at least half the time. Stanford upsetting USC, on the road, with a first time head coach, and a backup quarterback is a FAR bigger upset that Appy State-who the voters had ranked as high as 30 in the big-boy polls-beating MIchigan. And their season should be just as done as Michigan's was after Week 1.

While I'm on the subject of upsets, Wisconsin fell too far given the precedent set the prior week. Both Oklahoma and Florida lost to unranked teams, and still stayed in the vicinity of the Top 10. Wisconsin, while overrated, loses to a damn good Illinois team and they drop to almost 20? The Illini are easily better than Colorado and are at LEAST as good as Auburn.

The polls this year are a joke.



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wmatistic
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      In looking at next weekend, according to the ESPN website, one of the biggest games may not be on tv??? I imagine that has to change before the weekend, but right now Missouri vs Oklahoma isn't showing a network it will be on, including the Gameplan package. That sure would suck.






    Fox Sports Net has the game as part of the either double or triple header they'll show this weekend, unless the Fox Sports Net affiliate in your region is broadcasting an NHL game or an NBA pre-season game that would pre-empt such a broadcast. Unless a game is under the all mighty umbrella of ESPN, they don't consider the other networks to exist.


Not really true as they do list if a game is on CBS or NBC.

Comparing App State's accomplishments against typically far inferior talent to what Stanford has to face as though they were the same thing isn't very valid to me. The overall talent drop off between divisions is huge. Sure you get some DI caliber players here or there, but it's that depth of talent that separates them. That's not to say that just cause Stanford is DI they automatically have more talent.

The polls aren't a joke to me, they just have a hard time sorting it out until we get late in the season. Personally I don't think Wisconsin dropped enough, but that's because they hadn't done anything to deserve being ranked highly to begin with. You can't struggle against teams like Citadel and then not get a big drop when you finally lose.

As for Illinois, I'm just not ready to jump on with them yet. Yes they are pulling off some big name wins, but Penn State has huge problems and as I said Wisconsin was a bit of a joke. Illinois has talent but it's young and for all the praise he's getting now, it's still Zook coaching. I kinda figure Ohio State would beat them badly, but we'll see.

(edited by wmatistic on 8.10.07 1737)
Nuclear Winter
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.88
    Originally posted by Battlezone
    Applachian State now holds Division 1's longest home winning streak.


App State isn't division 1.



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TheBucsFan
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.40
    Originally posted by Nuclear Winter
      Originally posted by Battlezone
      Applachian State now holds Division 1's longest home winning streak.


    App State isn't division 1.


Yes, they are. Division 1 is comprised of two divisions - the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly 1-AA) and the Football Bowl Subdivision (formerly 1-A). But it's all Division 1.
Sec19Row53
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.20
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Yeah I would agree they screwed up the line on the Stanford/USC game. These sportswriters trying to make a case that it was bigger than App State/Michigan in any way other than the line are idiots.



Keep in mind that the betting line is only set to achieve an equal amount of betting on either side. If this is done, Vegas wins, because they keep 10% of everything. A pointspread is not an indication of 'Vegas thinks Team A is 3 points better than Team B', it's 'If we set the spread at Team A -3, we'll get equal amounts of money bet on both teams'.
Eddie Famous
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37

    Originally posted by wmatistic
    As for Illinois, I'm just not ready to jump on with them yet. Yes they are pulling off some big name wins, but Penn State has huge problems and as I said Wisconsin was a bit of a joke. Illinois has talent but it's young and for all the praise he's getting now, it's still Zook coaching. I kinda figure Ohio State would beat them badly, but we'll see.


Ohio State will probably beat them badley, but they'll be favored in every other game the rest of the season except possible Michigan. That game is at Champaign and Illinois has already stuffed one excellent running game (Wisky). Illinois' offense is too much like Oregon's to think Michigan will be able to stop them cold.

So, I guess 10-2 would be a pretty awful coaching job after that 2-10 season.



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wmatistic
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      As for Illinois, I'm just not ready to jump on with them yet. Yes they are pulling off some big name wins, but Penn State has huge problems and as I said Wisconsin was a bit of a joke. Illinois has talent but it's young and for all the praise he's getting now, it's still Zook coaching. I kinda figure Ohio State would beat them badly, but we'll see.


    Ohio State will probably beat them badley, but they'll be favored in every other game the rest of the season except possible Michigan. That game is at Champaign and Illinois has already stuffed one excellent running game (Wisky). Illinois' offense is too much like Oregon's to think Michigan will be able to stop them cold.

    So, I guess 10-2 would be a pretty awful coaching job after that 2-10 season.


Heck no, I wasn't calling Zook a bad coach, just not great. He can recruit better than anyone in the nation. Doing it at Florida might have been easy, but to pull the guys he has to Illinois??? I've been to that town. If I'm a major college recruit no way in hell I want to live there for four years. And he can coach a decent team. But he just...never was able to get the most out of that talent. They won a lot of games, but in my view should have won more. Josh Mann, as a Gator fan, back me up here.

Again, coach of the year candidate no question. But I don't think they've played a really good team yet. Saying they stuffed an excellent Wisconsin running game is a bit of a stretch. Wisconsin put up great numbers, but their opposition has been pathetic. The two teams with winning records they played(Citadel doesn't count) both out rushed them. Wisconsin is going to lose at Penn State, at Ohio State and at home to Michigan, and possibly to Indiana as well. I'd bet on it, if I did such things.

Illinois's main problem I can see is that Mendenhall is that team. He's doing awesome, but if you can shut him down, I don't think we've seen near enough from Juice to say they could keep putting up points. A 55% completion percentage and as many picks as TD's isn't very good. I think a good run defense can shut them down, but we'll see. I honestly hope they can prove me wrong, cause Ohio State bores me to death every year. I just don't expect it.
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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by Nuclear Winter
      Originally posted by Battlezone
      Applachian State now holds Division 1's longest home winning streak.


    App State isn't division 1.


Not to mention, they lost.



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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.40
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by Nuclear Winter
        Originally posted by Battlezone
        Applachian State now holds Division 1's longest home winning streak.


      App State isn't division 1.


    Not to mention, they lost.


The quote was "longest home winning streak." That game was at Wofford.
JayJayDean
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by JayJayDean
        Originally posted by Nuclear Winter
          Originally posted by Battlezone
          Applachian State now holds Division 1's longest home winning streak.


        App State isn't division 1.


      Not to mention, they lost.


    The quote was "longest home winning streak." That game was at Wofford.


Well, what the hell does THAT have to do with them winning AT Michigan? Argh!



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

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redsoxnation
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.57
    Originally posted by wmatistic
      Originally posted by Eddie Famous
        Originally posted by wmatistic
        As for Illinois, I'm just not ready to jump on with them yet. Yes they are pulling off some big name wins, but Penn State has huge problems and as I said Wisconsin was a bit of a joke. Illinois has talent but it's young and for all the praise he's getting now, it's still Zook coaching. I kinda figure Ohio State would beat them badly, but we'll see.


      Ohio State will probably beat them badley, but they'll be favored in every other game the rest of the season except possible Michigan. That game is at Champaign and Illinois has already stuffed one excellent running game (Wisky). Illinois' offense is too much like Oregon's to think Michigan will be able to stop them cold.

      So, I guess 10-2 would be a pretty awful coaching job after that 2-10 season.


    Heck no, I wasn't calling Zook a bad coach, just not great. He can recruit better than anyone in the nation. Doing it at Florida might have been easy, but to pull the guys he has to Illinois??? I've been to that town. If I'm a major college recruit no way in hell I want to live there for four years. And he can coach a decent team. But he just...never was able to get the most out of that talent. They won a lot of games, but in my view should have won more. Josh Mann, as a Gator fan, back me up here.

    Again, coach of the year candidate no question. But I don't think they've played a really good team yet. Saying they stuffed an excellent Wisconsin running game is a bit of a stretch. Wisconsin put up great numbers, but their opposition has been pathetic. The two teams with winning records they played(Citadel doesn't count) both out rushed them. Wisconsin is going to lose at Penn State, at Ohio State and at home to Michigan, and possibly to Indiana as well. I'd bet on it, if I did such things.

    Illinois's main problem I can see is that Mendenhall is that team. He's doing awesome, but if you can shut him down, I don't think we've seen near enough from Juice to say they could keep putting up points. A 55% completion percentage and as many picks as TD's isn't very good. I think a good run defense can shut them down, but we'll see. I honestly hope they can prove me wrong, cause Ohio State bores me to death every year. I just don't expect it.





They did play Ohio State to a 17-10 game at home last season, with the ball at their own 5 yard line as time expired. Considering that was when Ohio State was destroying everyone, it was the first sign of vulnerability Ohio State had shown.
Spread offense vs. Michigan equals destruction of the Michigan defense.
The pollsters are giving USC the benefit of the doubt based entirely on reputation. If the knock off Oregon and Cal and climb in the polls, they'll have earned their way back. If not, they'll plummet. Wisconsin was dropping on wins until Bloodbath Weekend Part 1. They were looking for an excuse to drop them. Watch how far a South Florida or Boston College will plummet if/when they lose compared to if LSU stubs their toe against Kentucky.
wmatistic
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
While I would agree that Michigan has problems with the spread, what Illinois runs is a bit different. In that the really effective spread offenses have awesome QB's running the show. App State sure did. Florida has Tebow. But Illinois has Juice, and while he's got talent he's not anywhere near the threat by himself those other guys are. Their offense clicks because of a great running back. And I do think Michigan can potentially shut down that type of attack.

And Ohio State has such a long and storied history of playing down to their opponent I'm not giving much cred to Illinois sticking with them last year. OSU has to be the king of pulling out close wins the past decade or so.

It's not just rep that keeps USC up, like I've said before, it's talent. We know USC has pulled top three classes year after year after year. To think that they will all of a sudden not be able to pull it together with that much talent is too far for me right now. Sure it could happen, but like the pollsters, I need to see them taken out again before I jump ship entirely.

BC would likely fall far if they lost. They haven't played a good schedule but what's left is pretty hard, even if you think the ACC is a joke(it's not). Virginia Tech, FSU, Maryland, Clemson, Miami and even Notre Dame(just from a history standpoint) is pretty rough. Lose just one and people might still respect you(unless it's Notre Dame). Lose a couple and you're...well typical Boston College.

If USF loses just once, I don't think it'll drop too far. Their conference isn't good so that hurts, but it's cool to give extra credit to Big East teams right now(Rutgers in the top ten at any point this year was proof).

The important question is can you really complain all that much if/when it happens? If USF was to lose one of those remaining games could you really justify leaving them in the top 15?
Battlezone
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.43
    Originally posted by JayJayDean

    Well, what the hell does THAT have to do with them winning AT Michigan? Argh!


My point was that Appalachian State, regardless of division, is a better team than Stanford. Most teams, when they step into the 1-AA waters, schedule BAD 1-AA teams. Michigan didn't. And given how quickly former 1-AA teams have jumped to 1-A and competed (see Huskies, UConn), the gap between the two division isn't as big as it once was.

And let's not act like this is the first week that USC has shown dinks in their armor. They were a onside kick away from losing up here in Seattle the week before, too. Not to mention last year, when they almost lost to UW at home, and then fell to an inferior Oregon State team on the road. You talk about Ohio State "playing down to their competition", yet fail to notice that USC has a tendency to throw their uniforms on the field and wait for their opponents to roll over for quite some time now, as well.

The bottom line, losing to a team as lousy as Stanford should have USC nowhere near sniffing the Top 10, let alone #7.

For the record, I think the writers are more right than the coaches, as far as the Top 10 goes, although I'd replace Southern Cal with Missouri.



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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.40
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    If USF loses just once, I don't think it'll drop too far. Their conference isn't good so that hurts, but it's cool to give extra credit to Big East teams right now(Rutgers in the top ten at any point this year was proof).

    The important question is can you really complain all that much if/when it happens? If USF was to lose one of those remaining games could you really justify leaving them in the top 15?



How can you justify *not* leaving them in the top 15? I think that the Bulls would drop far with one loss, and it will be a load of shit if it happens. What has Oklahoma done that USF hasn't? How about Oregon? USC? Florida?

South Florida has two wins thus far that are more impressive than anything any of the one-loss teams have done. But they didn't win a bunch of games in the 50s and 60s, so it doesn't count. USC loses to Stanford (at home!) and squeaks by Washington and is still a top-10 team, apparently, but when USF loses to Rutgers or Cincinnati - and I will say the Bulls will probably stumble somewhere, though I sure as hell hope not - they will likely be around 20 or so. It doesn't make any sense. I guess we'll see if/when it happens; maybe the pollsters are smarter than I give them credit for. But the love affair with USC and the SEC is ridiculous.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 9.10.07 1048)
StingArmy
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.90
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      If USF loses just once, I don't think it'll drop too far. Their conference isn't good so that hurts, but it's cool to give extra credit to Big East teams right now(Rutgers in the top ten at any point this year was proof).

      The important question is can you really complain all that much if/when it happens? If USF was to lose one of those remaining games could you really justify leaving them in the top 15?



    How can you justify *not* leaving them in the top 15? I think that the Bulls would drop far with one loss, and it will be a load of shit if it happens. What has Oklahoma done that USF hasn't? How about Oregon? USC? Florida?

    South Florida has two wins thus far that are more impressive than anything any of the one-loss teams have done. But they didn't win a bunch of games in the 50s and 60s, so it doesn't count. USC loses to Stanford (at home!) and squeaks by Washington and is still a top-10 team, apparently, but when USF loses to Rutgers or Cincinnati - and I will say the Bulls will probably stumble somewhere, though I sure as hell hope not - they will likely be around 20 or so. It doesn't make any sense. I guess we'll see if/when it happens; maybe the pollsters are smarter than I give them credit for. But the love affair with USC and the SEC is ridiculous.

    (edited by TheBucsFan on 9.10.07 1048)

Someone should link this post to the Wikipedia entry for "homer."

You're right about USC and about most of the SEC (to an extent). However, if you don't think that UF is better than USF you need to get your head examined. LSU was lucky to squeak by UF at the end. They played an inspired, dominating game, but they could only manage it for about 58 minutes. I say that if UF and USF faced off right now, UF would win by at least 2 touchdowns.

- StingArmy
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.40
    Originally posted by StingArmy
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
        Originally posted by wmatistic
        If USF loses just once, I don't think it'll drop too far. Their conference isn't good so that hurts, but it's cool to give extra credit to Big East teams right now(Rutgers in the top ten at any point this year was proof).

        The important question is can you really complain all that much if/when it happens? If USF was to lose one of those remaining games could you really justify leaving them in the top 15?



      How can you justify *not* leaving them in the top 15? I think that the Bulls would drop far with one loss, and it will be a load of shit if it happens. What has Oklahoma done that USF hasn't? How about Oregon? USC? Florida?

      South Florida has two wins thus far that are more impressive than anything any of the one-loss teams have done. But they didn't win a bunch of games in the 50s and 60s, so it doesn't count. USC loses to Stanford (at home!) and squeaks by Washington and is still a top-10 team, apparently, but when USF loses to Rutgers or Cincinnati - and I will say the Bulls will probably stumble somewhere, though I sure as hell hope not - they will likely be around 20 or so. It doesn't make any sense. I guess we'll see if/when it happens; maybe the pollsters are smarter than I give them credit for. But the love affair with USC and the SEC is ridiculous.

      (edited by TheBucsFan on 9.10.07 1048)

    Someone should link this post to the Wikipedia entry for "homer."

    You're right about USC and about most of the SEC (to an extent). However, if you don't think that UF is better than USF you need to get your head examined. LSU was lucky to squeak by UF at the end. They played an inspired, dominating game, but they could only manage it for about 58 minutes. I say that if UF and USF faced off right now, UF would win by at least 2 touchdowns.

    - StingArmy


At the end of the day, the two teams don't play (not in the regular season, anyway), so we'll never know. But UF has two losses, while USF has none. UF lost at home to a team USF beat on the road. USF has two victories over teams both polls rank among the top 25; UF has one win over a team one of the polls ranks 25th. USF has one win over a team in the top 10; the Gators have none. I don't even see the argument here. I'm really impressed at the Gators' inability to win a big game this season, really I am, but I like to judge teams by what happens on the field.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 9.10.07 1129)
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