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The W - Pro Wrestling - Bitching and moaning with a purpose... (Page 2)
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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 73 days
Last activity: 73 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by The Vile One
    DMC. How about something that isn't like the same WWF tv program for ages? Like no 20 minute interviews at the beginning, middle, and end of shows. A show free of all the McMahons on it. A show that doesn't have Hogan doing a stupid 80's promo. A show that actually might have more than 1 match go over 10 minutes. A show that goes to another match or something instead of some stupid backstage skit or segment. A show with some legitimate tag teams and CW. A show with a good built up main event. A show free of stupid TNA tease gimmicks. A show with a fresh feud that actually gets me excited about wrestling(the last one to actually do that was Jericho/Rock late last year).



They're called pay-per-views.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 13.4.02 0327)
Caring is the first step towards disappointment.
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#22 Posted on
Like no 20 minute interviews at the beginning, middle, and end of shows.

How do you propose they get the important feuds over? Today's wrestling fan needs to HEAR why the wrestlers are feuding. That's why mic skills are so important. That's what these segments are for, give the wrestlers 20 minutes to tell people why they should give a rats ass about why Austin is feuding with Undertaker. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, but at least the fans get to hear it out and decide which that is.

A show free of all the McMahons on it.

I understand where you're coming from.

A show that doesn't have Hogan doing a stupid 80's promo.


Like RAW, or what? Like most of Smackdown? Honestly, I don't think that his promo style is '80s anymore. It sounds like it is, because it's still him doing it, but I don't think that Hogan's promos are any more 80's than Flairs. "Whatcha gonna do?" is his catchphrase, just like "If you Smell..." That doesn't make it 80s.

A show that actually might have more than 1 match go over 10 minutes.

While I'd like to see this, in a way, in another, I think this would be a hard thing to do. You have 30 guys per show, and somebody's going to get left off anyway. Try to include as many people as possible in your broadcast, without resorting to a weekly battle royal.

A show that goes to another match or something instead of some stupid backstage skit or segment.

It's called "Plot Developement". Wrestling is a TV show. It's ALWAYS been a TV show. It has a plot, and that plot needs to be developed. Sometimes, the best way to develope that plot is NOT through matches.

A show with some legitimate tag teams and CW.

That'd be nice. I actually honestly don't give a rat's ass about a CW division. Highspot, Highspot, Highspot stopped impressing me 3 years ago on Nitro, and I can't stand Lucha. Tag Team wrestling is fine, but it's a matter of having wrestlers that are good tag team wrestlers that you don't want to use in the singles divisions. Besides Billy and Chuck, I can't think of any wrestlers that are good tag guys who the WWF wouldn't consider pushing as singles.

A show with a good built up main event.

If you don't like the promos and viginettes, how will you build them?

A show free of stupid TNA tease gimmicks.

YOU may not care about the Male 18-34 demographic, but I imagine the WWF does.

A show with a fresh feud that actually gets me excited about wrestling(the last one to actually do that was Jericho/Rock late last year).

Well, I can't help you there, and I imagine the WWF can't either without experimenting around with some feuds for a while, but of course there will always be someone around to bitch about that too.

A show with good title defenses that with titles that mean something.

Which is exactly what is happening with the IC title and the World title (which apparently won't be defended until PPVs now).

And how about some solid ppv cards worthy of their 30-45 dollar price tags?

I've always found the PPVs to be worth it, its a very rare occasion that I dislike the PPV viewing experience, even if I didn't care for some of the matches, I still like the shows.

How's that for you?

I don't know. It sounds like you want a show that will appeal to smarks and wrestling purists. Well that may be good and well with us, I don't think it'd fly in the "real world".



These mini Reeses cup things are addictive...
WTF13
Boerewors








Since: 22.1.02

Since last post: 4461 days
Last activity: 4461 days
#23 Posted on
I agree that you need the backstage segments to show motivations for feuds, but you do NOT need the 20 minute interviews. I don't recall Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, or anyone else back then having to take 20 minutes in order to make the fans care about their matches. To me having to have 20 minutes shows a lack of mic skills more than anything else. In more recent times, I don't recall it being necessary on ECW or even on WWF programming up until a couple of years ago. Has the fanbase changed that much that it takes 20 minutes to get their attention? It's just a combination of bad writing, poor mic skills, and McMahon ego.



HUSS! HUSS! HUSS!
EastCoastAvenger
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02
From: Clearwater, FL

Since last post: 1994 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#24 Posted on
Put the extra heavy emphasis on the "McMahon Ego" and you'll have it dead on! After all, who's in the majority of these 20-minute piss-breaks? What happened to 20-minute matches and 5-minute intervies? With some episodes of Raw and Smackdown like that, I just might have to stop flipping the channels so regularly while it's on! Let's never forget, at the base of "Sports Entertainment" pro wrestling rests. Without the wrestling, we have a sub-par drama with crappy actors.



"I hate motherfuckers claimin' that they foldin bank
But steady talkin shit in the holding tank
First you wanna step to me
Now your ass screamin for the deputy
They send you to Charlie-Baker-Denver row
Now they runnin up in ya slow
You're gone, used to be the Don Juan
Now your name is just 'Twan
Switch it, snap it, rollin your eyes and neck
You better run a check..."


--From "Check Yo' Self"
by Ice Cube
DasJeepGuy
Weisswurst








Since: 10.2.02
From: Pittsburg, KS

Since last post: 4551 days
Last activity: 4550 days
#25 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pheadfred
    To me , it's like watching an infomercial anymore ( I'm sure that analogy has been made before ) , with all the accelerated matches and angles setting up PPV's . That's why I'm hoping the roster split will help , hey they could even add a third roster with all the talent they have access to , and then they could really work angles

    I guess I'll still keep on watching no matter what though , simply because I'm a die hard wrestling fan .



I think everyone is forgetting that since the advent of PPV, WWF TV's sole purpose is to pimp the PPV. Sure every once in a great while they'd bust out a PPV type match on TV, but for the most angles and storylines are ended on PPV, not free TV.
EastCoastAvenger
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02
From: Clearwater, FL

Since last post: 1994 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#26 Posted on
Even with the need to pimp the ppv, the WWF has two titles tailor-made for Raw and Smackdown (translated: relatively minor, but still salvagable) title defenses. The IC and European title. Neither belt means anything anymore, and defending them on Raw and Smackdown while keeping the World and Tag Titles in storage until they are defended on ppv's would probably heighten interest in the secondary titles. While doing this, they could easily devote some minor time to developing World and tag title rivalries, even have a few matches involving the champs, but always saving the payoff for the ppv. It wouldn't even take much effort to change to this structure, since they have no real direction right now.

As for the Hardcore title... Trash it. Does anyone really care who holds it, or who wants it now?

(edited by EastCoastAvenger on 13.4.02 1221)
"I hate motherfuckers claimin' that they foldin bank But steady talkin shit in the holding tank First you wanna step to me Now your ass screamin for the deputy They send you to Charlie-Baker-Denver row Now they runnin up in ya slow You're gone, used to be the Don Juan Now your name is just 'Twan Switch it, snap it, rollin your eyes and neck You better run a check..." --From "Check Yo' Self" by Ice Cube
The Vile One
Chourico








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 4446 days
Last activity: 4323 days
#27 Posted on
Excalibur, the 20 minute interviews are ridiuculous. A lot of the things they do in the interviews like setting up a match or signing a contract can be done in about 5 minutes. The 20 minute interview is total filler for a show, and the I have enjoyed them from time to time. Just can't remember the last time I did.

I'm not saying not to have backstage skits or interviews, just ones that aren't completely ridiculous and stupid. Why do we need to see a limo run over a dog? Why do we need to see Vince getting to fool around with all the WWF women who are young enough to be his granddaughter? Why does Flair need to be as over exposed on RAW as Vince was?

You know Bucsfan said PPV is the show I'm looking for. It isn't, b/c the WWF hasn't had a PPV show worth buying in a while. The Rock/Hogan match may have been enough for people at wrestlemania but not for me.

As proof of how bad the WWF is now. Just look over the past year at how much they've screwed up. They've already screwed up the NWO, but to most intelligent that was pretty much a forgone conclusion.




"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing."
-Boromir
Weevil
Polska kielbasa








Since: 19.3.02
From: Ireland

Since last post: 3216 days
Last activity: 3216 days
#28 Posted on

    Originally posted by Excalibur05
    Like no 20 minute interviews at the beginning, middle, and end of shows.

    How do you propose they get the important feuds over? Today's wrestling fan needs to HEAR why the wrestlers are feuding. That's why mic skills are so important. That's what these segments are for, give the wrestlers 20 minutes to tell people why they should give a rats ass about why Austin is feuding with Undertaker. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, but at least the fans get to hear it out and decide which that is

    A show that actually might have more than 1 match go over 10 minutes.

    While I'd like to see this, in a way, in another, I think this would be a hard thing to do. You have 30 guys per show, and somebody's going to get left off anyway. Try to include as many people as possible in your broadcast, without resorting to a weekly battle royal



If the interview only goes ten minutes, not only are both problems solved, but the interview might actually be entertaining without all the filler needed to make it go the mandatory 20 minutes.

It isn't a straight choice between what we have now and nothing but 20 minute matches. they just need to change things halfway.
albert44
Italian








Since: 12.2.02
From: houston , TX

Since last post: 3398 days
Last activity: 3130 days
#29 Posted on
I completely agree with the vile one. The only thing worth watching right now is
this RVD- EDDIE program their working on. Hell, I get to watch PPv's for free
and i still have a hard time watching them. It's gotten to the point where i
have started ordering tapes thorugh the net. My advice Vile One, is to order the
94 J cup ASAP. Trust me you will feel alot better. Mine came through the
mail yesterday and Ive been on cloud nine ever since!
(Eddie aka Black TIGER rulz.)



albert44


EDDY GUERRERO IS MY FAVORITE WRESTLER!!! YEAH HE IS!!!!!
HomerJFong
Ten Millionth Hit








Since: 19.3.02
From: Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 2676 days
Last activity: 1502 days
AIM:  
#30 Posted on
Much as I would like to see a move from the seemingly never-ending 20 minute interview segments that populate the WWF shows, I must wonder if the fans at the Raw events would be ready to see lengthier matches.

While I know I would want to see Eddy given 10 minutes or so between bells to tell a story, can your average fan sit through this and both appreciate what he is doing, and at the same time not chant BO-RING because he doesn't have a catch phrase that they can chant? The fans I sat with at Mania didn't give me much hope for that. Even during decent undercard stuff like Xtian/DDP or Booker/Edge, the fans were wondering aloud when the match was going to be over. It's the nasty other side of trying to cater to the workrateholics.

But why do I still keep watching? Perhaps the fact that I just know that the week they give a 15 minute segment to Regal/Eddy and they tear the house down with a classic match. Mcmahon's corollary to Murphy's Law.

I'm a lucha fan, and if I need to escape I'll throw in the Cibernetico match from '97, but I'll always be there on Monday.

PS: Some highly recommended lucha to order: AAA When Worlds Collide 11/94. EMLL PPV 3/00.



Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
albert44
Italian








Since: 12.2.02
From: houston , TX

Since last post: 3398 days
Last activity: 3130 days
#31 Posted on
hey hmoerjfong, did u catch the Shocker?DR Wagner JR match from this past week
AWESOME-
I totally marked out for the dragon screw



albert44


EDDY GUERRERO IS MY FAVORITE WRESTLER!!! YEAH HE IS!!!!!
Weevil
Polska kielbasa








Since: 19.3.02
From: Ireland

Since last post: 3216 days
Last activity: 3216 days
#32 Posted on

    Originally posted by HomerJFong
    Much as I would like to see a move from the seemingly never-ending 20 minute interview segments that populate the WWF shows, I must wonder if the fans at the Raw events would be ready to see lengthier matches.

    While I know I would want to see Eddy given 10 minutes or so between bells to tell a story, can your average fan sit through this and both appreciate what he is doing, and at the same time not chant BO-RING because he doesn't have a catch phrase that they can chant? The fans I sat with at Mania didn't give me much hope for that. Even during decent undercard stuff like Xtian/DDP or Booker/Edge, the fans were wondering aloud when the match was going to be over. It's the nasty other side of trying to cater to the workrateholics.<



We weren't given any reason to care about those matches. if the writers can't do their job properly then at least let the wrestlers do theirs.

Besides it doesn't have to be such a big jump. how about five minute midcard matches as standard?
shea
Bockwurst








Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 4001 days
Last activity: 3887 days
#33 Posted on

Lengthier matches? How about just MORE matches?

I was anticipating the roster split giving more exposure to a hell of a lot of forgotten talent.

But Nooooooooo .... instead, we get increased exposure to the same handful of top-card bores.

Ratings won't go up if they keep churning out these cookie-cutter shows. Evolve or die, Vince!
HomerJFong
Ten Millionth Hit








Since: 19.3.02
From: Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 2676 days
Last activity: 1502 days
AIM:  
#34 Posted on

    Originally posted by albert44
    hey hmoerjfong, did u catch the Shocker?DR Wagner JR match from this past week
    AWESOME-
    I totally marked out for the dragon screw



Actually, no lucha for me in Ontario. They did use to air it a few years back, so I've been ordering tapes through Wrestleholics to get my fix.

I limit myself to one dose of AAA a year. Could someone explain Gronda?




Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
The Vile One
Chourico








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 4446 days
Last activity: 4323 days
#35 Posted on
To answer your question HomerJFong. Yes the average wrestling fan can get just as excited during a good long match. As long as the match is exciting though and wrestlers are built up for the fans to care about them.

The reasons fans were bored by the mid-card matches at wrestlemania was b/c they sucked. Just a bunch of extended shitty six minute raw matches.




"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing."
-Boromir
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 73 days
Last activity: 73 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
I look at it like this:

During the Monday wars, stuff that used to be PPV-exclusive was given away on free TV, such as World Title changes and competitive matches between two main eventers. For the WWF to go back to what the show was like before this would be suicide. So they keep the important developements on free TV, but now they still need something to convince people to buy a PPV. So they put all the matches there as something you can't get for free.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 13.4.02 2011)
Caring is the first step towards disappointment.
LordOfTheSmarks
Chipolata








Since: 18.3.02
From: THE ohio state university

Since last post: 4481 days
Last activity: 4374 days
#37 Posted on

Vile, it certainly sounds like you're asking for a PPV quality show every week. Long matches, brief promos to finalize the feuds, that sort of thing. The fact remains that will not fly on a weekly basis on television. Besides, if every match has PPV intensity... why buy the PPV?

Let's use this past RAW as an example. Maybe it's just me, but I enjoyed the 20 minute promo to start RAW. It set up 2 matches, 1 PPV, and hinted at dissention between Austin and Flair. This was an effectively excecuted promo doing what no 20 minute match could do. It set the tone for the entire show and gave us hints as to what to look for.

If it didn't interest you, then that's certainly a shame. If you would rather have had RVD v. Undertaker and Hall v. Austin with no backstory, and Flair be given a stunner without an earlier teasing of "don't mess with me" then hey, that's your perogative. I, for one, enjoy being given the backstory if it's handled effectively.

Mind you, if it's just Steffie screeching away or Vince being Vince, then that's a totally different thing. But a promo as handled Monday should yield no complaints.



"somewhere down in suburbia it ain't right"
WAPU Bandit
Linguica








Since: 2.1.02
From: Ft. Hood, TX

Since last post: 4494 days
Last activity: 4431 days
#38 Posted on
While I know that expecting a old school PPV quality show every week is unrealistic, I have to agree that Vile is on target here. Bucs Fans made the point that in the 80's the PPV matches were the showcase for wrestlers who almost NEVER wrestled on free TV. I remember wathing WWf as a kid and wondering how Hulk could be the Champion when he never wrestled. As a kid I never had cable TV so the term PPV basically meant nothing to me. In this day and age I have paid for the last 10 PPV's and felt very violated because I had paid 30 bucks or so for RAW on a Sunday. The matches the have on the PPV are frequently wrestled on free TV before AND after the PPV itself! Good grief for the longest time it seemed like the PPV was just avery expensive set-up for the next RAW. They would usually wrap up the fueds on the Monday after, not on the PPV. This for the most part has not changed. I disagree with Bucs when he says that the WWF can not go back towards this format. They have so many wreslters that it would be simplicity itself to fill up the 4 hours of big TV a week while setting up angles for the top carders to wrestle mainly at the PPV. Of course they would have to make regular cameo appearances and occaisionally actually wresltle on free TV. This would actually heighten interest in them rather than lower it. Do I get excited when Austin wresltes anymore? No. It is something I have been over exposed to. Make me want it WWF.





Terminus Est - Book of the New Sun

????
LEM BA QM
LEM BA PAJ BE PRD
????
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 73 days
Last activity: 73 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
Are you saying to make RAW better, you need to take away the most exciting parts?



Caring is the first step towards disappointment.
EastCoastAvenger
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02
From: Clearwater, FL

Since last post: 1994 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#40 Posted on
"PPV" quality show? Come on. WWF PPVs haven't been all that good for the past few years. Out of the 12 we get per year, about 3 are worth the time, and one every other year is worth the money they charge. If they brought the price down to about 15 bucks per PPV, I'd buy them all without complaint, but DAMN! 30 for a "regular" PPV and 40 or more for one of the flagship PPVs?! THe last time I actually paid for a PPV, I swore I'd never spend a dime on WWF programming again. As it is, I catch about 90 minutes of the weekly free programming.

With the sheer size of the pool of talent they have, you'd think they have enough to give the fans a fresh, unique program every day, but they continue to pound the same 3 guys up our collective ass every week. Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H... Well, make it four since Hogan's squeezing himself into the picture again.

Bandit's got a good point. The PPV should feel like a special event, not just an enhanced Raw or Smackdown.

(edited by EastCoastAvenger on 13.4.02 2211)
"I hate motherfuckers claimin' that they foldin bank But steady talkin shit in the holding tank First you wanna step to me Now your ass screamin for the deputy They send you to Charlie-Baker-Denver row Now they runnin up in ya slow You're gone, used to be the Don Juan Now your name is just 'Twan Switch it, snap it, rollin your eyes and neck You better run a check..." --From "Check Yo' Self" by Ice Cube
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