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The W - Baseball - Bill Simmons on Manny Ramirez
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It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.28
This is the longest column I've seen Simmons write in a long time and he absolutely nails it here.

ESPN - Manny Being Manipulated - E-Ticket

Grab some coffee, because this is a long read, but this is one passionate article and nothing he says is wrong. How Scott Boras escaped the spotlight here is beyond me, but what really gets me is the END of this column.


    So, how will this play out? I see Manny leading the Dodgers to the 2008 World Series, breaking their hearts and donning pinstripes next season. He won't feel bad, because he's Manny. The L.A. fans will feel bad. I will feel worse. It will be the single most painful sports transaction of my lifetime. It will make me question why I follow sports at all, why we spend so much time caring about people who don't care about us. I don't want to hear Manny booed at Fenway. I don't want to root against him. I don't want to hold a grudge. I don't want to hear the "Mah-knee! Mah-knee!" chant echoing through the new Stadium. I am not ready for any of it. You love sports most when you're 16, then you love it a little bit less every year. And it happens because of things like this. Like Manny breaking the hearts of everyone in Boston because his agent wanted to get paid, then Manny landing in New York because the Yanks offered the most money.

    And when it happens, his new teammates will spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure him out. They will like him. They will make fun of him. They will ride his hot streaks for weeks at a time. Within a few months, they might even swipe his credit card for a night on the town, planning to charge drinks to their idiot teammate all night. Someone else will get stuck with the bill. Manny will drink for free. Everyone will have a good laugh, and they will never underestimate Manny Ramirez again.


The sad thing? He's probably right, you know. And if Manny does don pinstripes next year, a piece of a lot of sports fans will die that day.




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Since: 2.1.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98

this explains why there have been no columns (other than Friday NFL) for the last couple weeks,

Also, This column has FOOTNOTES~!



Mark Coale
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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by odessasteps
    this explains why there have been no columns (other than Friday NFL) for the last couple weeks,


I believe there is another book he's been finishing.


    Also, This column has FOOTNOTES~!


Just like his (first) book.

Hopefully there is more of this to come, because it is fantastic work by BS.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
I really wish ESPN (and other sites) would adopt the New York Times' website's footnotes format of being able to click on each footnote and it opens up a separate window. It's a real pain having to scroll down the page.

The flaw in Simmons' argument here is that Jason Bay is 90-95 percent as good as Manny, is cheaper and seems to fit the team's dynamic a bit better. So, wasn't dealing Ramirez an overall good move by Red Sox management?

Maybe Manny will sign with the Blue Jays next year. It could happen!*

* = editor's note, won't happen



“How is it that I am a good actor? What I do is I... pretend to be the person I’m portraying. You’re confused. Case in point: in Lord of the Rings, Peter Jackson comes to me and says ‘I would like you to be Gandalf the Wizard,’ and I said ‘You are aware that I am not really a wizard?’ and Peter Jackson said ‘I would like you to use your acting skills to portray a wizard for the duration of the show.’ So I said ‘Okay’ and then I said to myself ‘Mmm.. How do I do that?’ And this is what I did: I imagined that I was a wizard, and then I pretended, and acted, in that way on the stage. How did I know what to say? The words were written down for me in a script. How did I know where to stand? People told me where to stand." -- Sir Ian McKellen, Extras
Spiraling_Shape
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Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.74
I read this in fits and starts all afternoon at work...I think it's actually LONGER than his book. But it also reminded me why I love his writing and missed him in his time off.

(And hey, he worked in a great heel-turn joke in there about Manny dressing like Andre the Giant!)



"I don't fight people with the fallopian tubes."
Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.91
I don't know. I read the whole thing, and I can't help but think, what was the point exactly?
An agent wants to get paid, even if it's not in his clients best interest.
Most professional athletes care less about their team than the team's fans do. Also, most professional athletes biggest concern is making money.
When you get to know a person you admire, you sometimes find out that they don't live up to your expectations.

None of those are surprises. Otherwise, it's a jumble of ramblings, anecdotes and veiled hostilities (like the out-of-nowhere attacks on Epstein) that he should be paying a therapist to talk about, not posting in a column.
Eddie Famous
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.52

An excellent rambling of a spoiled fan who thinks ballplayers owe them something and the the fans should have a say in how a ballclub is run.

Why would anyone think Ramirez owes anything more to the Red Sox and their fans than he does, say, the INDIAN fans...you know, his first team?



As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
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Since: 2.1.02
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
    Originally posted by It's False
    The sad thing? He's probably right, you know. And if Manny does don pinstripes next year, a piece of a lot of sports fans will die that day.


I agree with everything, even the article, and this, but I do believe it deserves some addendum.

1. Manny was raised and learned to play ball in the Bronx. His playing there would, should, and could be the most common sense move in baseball in quite some time...

2. On that note, it would be another bad move in a long line of bad moves on behalf of Brian Cashman to bring in an old player for too much money while teams like the Diamondbacks, Rays, and Twins continue to be contenders just by having a solid developmental system. I distinctly remember the Yankees having their best years using guys that came up through the system as opposed to the plug and chug format of late.

3. I apologize if you meant he'd be with the Cubs, White Sox, Mets, or Twins, who also wear pinstripes on occasion.

4. Boston fans would have zero reason to have a peice of them die; Boston shouldn't have traded him away. I'm terribly sick of hearing 'woe is me' from Boston fans; it's over. You won the Series twice, you have one of the highest payrolls in baseball, get over yourselves and realize you have become the Evil Empire. Congrats. (I will say it's down right noble how the BoSux have employed a mentally challenged young man named Papelbon. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck...) Furthermore, you also have the current NBA champion Celtics and the dynastic Patriots. If you think that New England sports deserve your whining, put a gun in your mouth and aim it at the peice of you that should die so we don't have to hear you cry over spilt milk.

5. LA fans would have zero reason to have a peice of them die; LA shouldn't have traded for him. Much like the Brewers should realize that it's distinctly possible that Sabathia won't be back, the Dodgers should realize that Manny might not ever be in an LA spring training either.



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by odessasteps
      this explains why there have been no columns (other than Friday NFL) for the last couple weeks,


    I believe there is another book he's been finishing.


      Also, This column has FOOTNOTES~!


    Just like his (first) book.

    Hopefully there is more of this to come, because it is fantastic work by BS.


I thought that he had finished his book over the summer when he was on sabbatical. I guess he may still be working on it, since he occasionally mentions on the podcast traveling back to the east coast.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
The Affirmation, Baby Blog
Eddie Famous
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.52

    Originally posted by Lexus
    LA shouldn't have traded for him.


You couldn't be more wrong.



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OFFICIAL SIX-MONTH COUNT: 142 pounds on June 8, 2005
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As of 7/31/06: 224 pounds
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As of 5/18/08: Still 217 down!
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Since: 16.4.02
From: Green Bay, WI

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
Welcome home, men of the 2nd Bn, 127th Inf, 32d "Red Arrow" Brigade, WI Army Nat'l Guard! Good luck to those down south.

[quote Lexus Much like the Brewers should realize that it's distinctly possible that Sabathia won't be back...


Should realize? We've known that for a long time. In fact, when CC got run from Game 2 last night, Jim Powell (the Brewers' radio announcer that splits time with "Mr. Baseball" Bob Uecker) wondered aloud if we just saw CC's last pitch in a Brewer uniform.

We're hoping like heck the mgmt. can get a deal done with CC over the offseason, but it's pretty much a given up here that some other team (read: NYY) will offer him a ridiculous amount of moolah.











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Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
So, according to this thread, the Yankees are going to sign C.C. Sabathia AND Manny Ramirez in the offseason. Tell you what; any other team signs them we start slandering them instead, okay?

I love it; such and such team sucks and it must be the Yankees fault. Nevermind they aren't in the damn playoffs and such and such team is.

Seriously, aren't the Brewers owned by Miller? Doesn't that make all the beer sales at the stadium 100% profit? You can't sign C.C. with the beer money?

And I'm saying LA shouldn't have went after him in that context. No Manny no playoffs for LA, I know.



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.81
Read the column, loved it, passed the link onto friends.

Sorry, but Simmons is dead-on with everything he said. "Spoiled" Red Sox fan or no. What he's going through is basically the split Packers fan had when Favre lied and came back, only if this was a holding year and next he's going to Minnesota or Chicago. Or if Steve Yzerman, after 1998, moved to the LA Kings or something, then to the Colorado Avalanche. If somehow college players could be traded/had free agency, and Archie Griffin came back for a fifth year as a Michigan Wolverine. It's something any sports fan could have to endure, "spoiled" or no, and it doesn't kill my empathy any less just because after decades of hell Boston's miraculously hit the jackpot.

Yeah it's a cold hard business only now, thanks for the reminder Eddie Famous and Boffo. But as Simmons said, when we first get into sports as a kid things never appeared like that. Especially in places like Boston, Detroit, our sports athletes transcend being mere mercenaries hired to bring gold to the team and by proxy the city. They become a part of the city itself, a part of the culture, they become folk heroes. That's just the reality of fandom. It hurts every time pure sports innocence takes a shot, like it has and will continue to with the Manny saga.

EDIT: Lexus, the Yankees aren't to blame for those teams "sucking". They're going to be to blame because the reality of baseball finances. It's basically them and Boston who have the money and the ability to sign C.C. or Manny in free agency without having to sacrifice any part of their team, they have THAT much money and clout. So whenever a team like the Brewers lucks into a good player, it's not going to be for long because as soon as that ever present money situation pops up, you just know the Yanks'll offer and the player'll sign. Once again sports innocence takes another blow.

(edited by BoromirMark on 3.10.08 1532)



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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
If Manny had stayed in Boston, the Red Sox would have missed the playoffs as he was getting into the Operation Shut Down mode that he went into in 2006 (and he shut it down for September of '07 as well).
The advantage of the Bay trade for the Red Sox is that they actually have left field solidified for '09, which wouldn't have been the case if they hadn't traded Ramirez, as he wasn't returning and the Red Sox would have had to go after an Abreu or a Burrell in free agency. I shudder to think of Abreu looking at the wall at Fenway with his known love of walls.
Considering they desperately need offense, would Manny Ramirez ending up in San Francisco be a shock?
Since Sabathia will probably end up either in California or New York, and Sheets will probably get a big money contract from Baltimore (can see the Birds signing Sheets and Burnett for big money then getting about 3 starts combined from them), do the Brewers dig into the farm system again and start talking to the Padres about Peavy? He's signed, but the Padres might be dumping salary, so that might be a good match-up of quality inexpensive talent for an ace.
And, can we remember the Red Sox payroll dropped $10 million last season and they were down to #4 in payroll, behind the Yankees, Tigers and Mets, 3 teams that missed the playoffs. With Ramirez's $20 million off the book and another $11 million or so between Timlin and Schilling going off the books, the Red Sox payroll should drop again. Now, if we are talking about spending money and getting less than nothing in return, the 2008 Seattle Mariners might have topped the 1993 Mets as the Worst Team Money Can Buy.

(edited by redsoxnation on 3.10.08 1549)
Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Now, if we are talking about spending money and getting less than nothing in return, the 2008 Seattle Mariners might have topped the 1993 Mets as the Worst Team Money Can Buy.


The 2008 Tigers have to take the title. Second highest payroll in MLB, finished last in the AL Central.



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
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Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.91
    Originally posted by Lexus
    Seriously, aren't the Brewers owned by Miller?

No. The Brewers are owned by Mark Attanasio. He is an investment banker, currently the Group Managing Director of TCW, Inc. He purchased the Brewers for $180 million.
http://www.tcw.com/TCW/application?namespace=portal&&pageid=PeopleDetail&PersonCode=ATTANM

Miller Brewing bought the naming rights to the Brewers' stadium for $41 million over 20 years.

The only corporately owned MLB teams are the Blue Jay (Rogers Communications), the Mariners (Nintendo of America), the Braves (Liberty Media), and the Cubs (The Tribune Company).
hayden
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Since: 11.1.05

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
    Originally posted by BoromirMark
    What he's going through is basically the split Packers fan had when Favre lied and came back, only if this was a holding year and next he's going to Minnesota or Chicago. Or if Steve Yzerman, after 1998, moved to the LA Kings or something, then to the Colorado Avalanche.


The Manny situation isn't at all like your Favre and Yzerman scenarios for two main reasons: 1) Favre and Yzerman played their entire careers with Green Bay and the Red Wings, respectively, whereas Ramirez spent half of his in Cleveland, and 2) Manny said that he was unhappy for eight years in Boston, whereas Favre and Yzerman loved playing in their respective cities.
BOSsportsfan34
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Since: 2.1.03
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.26
    Originally posted by It's False
    This is the longest column I've seen Simmons write in a long time


That's Simmons problem. A decent writer could take the topic of one of his 10,000+ word screeds and write it better in about 1/4th of the word count.

The only points of his latest screed I can agree with are the Red Sox having their mouthpieces and their hands in the local media. They have an ownership stake in NESN (Local Sports Channel that brodcasts most of their games), WEEI and WRKO (local radio stations that broadcast their games), The Boston Globe (newspaper that has a 17% ownership stake in the Red Sox), and Peter Gammomns (part-time bandmate of Theo Epstein).

None of the Red Sox principle ownership took shots on record against Manny, but there was always someone doing it for them in one of those other outlets. Heck, the day Manny was trade, Gammons was on the Boston ESPN radio affiliate and said, paraphrasing, "when Manny is due for HOF eligibility, the voters will have a harder time voting 'yes' for him based on his actions than they will for Barry Bonds."

The other point I can somewhat agree on is the Boras influence. I'll give him credit for pointing that out, although someone else also pointed out that out a few months ago in a local Boston media blog but even with all that, Manny is still an adult who needs to be held responsible for his actions.

Other than that, this posts sums up Simmons column the best...

    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    An excellent rambling of a spoiled fan who thinks ballplayers owe them something and the the fans should have a say in how a ballclub is run.

    Why would anyone think Ramirez owes anything more to the Red Sox and their fans than he does, say, the INDIAN fans...you know, his first team?


Well said, Eddie.


    Originally posted by Lexus



      4. Boston fans would have zero reason to have a peice of them die; Boston shouldn't have traded him away. I'm terribly sick of hearing 'woe is me' from Boston fans; it's over. You won the Series twice, you have one of the highest payrolls in baseball, get over yourselves and realize you have become the Evil Empire. Congrats. (I will say it's down right noble how the BoSux have employed a mentally challenged young man named Papelbon. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck...) Furthermore, you also have the current NBA champion Celtics and the dynastic Patriots. If you think that New England sports deserve your whining, put a gun in your mouth and aim it at the peice of you that should die so we don't have to hear you cry over spilt milk.




    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bill Simmons DOES NOT speak for every Boston fan. You gun-in-the-mouth suggestion would be something that Simmons should try though. The guy was once a pretty good writer but he hasn't been consistently good in years.





    (edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 4.10.08 2013)

    "John McCain ran for president in 2000. Why couldn't we have elected him then? When he was sane." - Lewis Black
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.14
wah

Didn't Pedro Martinez leave after being there for just as long? I suppose Manny was there for two titles, but this wein threw a hissyfit when they traded the stolen base guy from the '04 ALCS.

Also, lightly racist.
Abmulabmu
Cotto








Since: 10.12.01

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#20 Posted on
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    An excellent rambling of a spoiled fan who thinks ballplayers owe them something and the the fans should have a say in how a ballclub is run.

    Why would anyone think Ramirez owes anything more to the Red Sox and their fans than he does, say, the INDIAN fans...you know, his first team?


Uh...his contract was up in Cleveland when he left. Kind of a big difference. And this is my first post here in like ten years.



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