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25.7.14 0204
The W - Football - Bill Parcells - greatest coach of all time
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The Masked Hungarian
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

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#1 Posted on
As a biased Giants fan I truly believe Parcells is the best coach in NFL history. Not only did he turn the Giants around, a team that was dead for more than 20 years, but he turned around two more dead franchises, the Patriots and the Jets. While I do not admire his power plays and Bucs teasing, I do think that on the field he is the best.
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odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#2 Posted on

Off the top of my head ...

Paul Brown
Sid Gillman
George Halas
Vince Lombardi
Tom Landry
Joe Gibbs

I would certainly put Parcells in the next level down, with Noll, Curly Lambeau, Don Shula and Weeb Eubank.



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You'll catch your death in the fog.
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The Diamond Dogs.
The Masked Hungarian
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

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#3 Posted on
I believe every single guy you said was better than Parcells coached one great team and/or floundered with others.



(edited by The Masked Hungarian on 28.1.02 1710)
210
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Since: 2.1.02
From: St Paul, MN

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00


Vince Lombardi





Yes. Like, 7 tiers above the Fat Tuuna.



Minnesota is so hot
The Masked Hungarian
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

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#5 Posted on
I don't buy that. The Packers were LOADED with talent in the 60s. Then Lombardi leaves and takes over the Redskins. How many titles did he win with Washington? How many playoff appearances did he even have with them? Lombardi is top 5 coaches ever, granted but he isn't the best. Parcells took over THREE dead franchises and won 2 super bowls, 1 AFC championship AND brought the Jets to the AFC Championship game. THE JETS! Just winning a playoff game with them was enough ground for a miracle!
Addy
Bauerwurst








Since: 24.1.02
From: Melbourne, Aussie Land

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#6 Posted on
**********
I don't buy that. The Packers were LOADED with talent in the 60s. Then Lombardi leaves and takes over the Redskins. How many titles did he win with Washington? How many playoff appearances did he even have with them? Lombardi is top 5 coaches ever, granted but he isn't the best
**********

Whoa! Lombardi coached the redskins for one season because he became very ill. He coached the skins to their first winning record in 14 years. As for "The Packers were LOADED with talent in the 60s", most of these players were from the team that went 1-10-1 under Ray Scooter McLean in 1958. Lombardi became their coach in 1959 and took them to a 7-5 record, the Packers first winning season in 12 years. That good coaching. Also, he trade for other players and some of these became Hall of Famers. Do not forget, when Vince stepped down as head coach, the Packers were never the team. Vince was a great coach.

I'm saying that King Vince is the best coach ever, but he is one of the top 3.



"Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game." - Jim Mora
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 244 days
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#7 Posted on

Originally posted by The Masked Hungarian
Parcells took over THREE dead franchises and won 2 super bowls, 1 AFC championship AND brought the Jets to the AFC Championship game. THE JETS! Just winning a playoff game with them was enough ground for a miracle!




Sounds like you just named Parcells the Tom Kelly of the NFL. Lousy teams except when he wins it all.

I like Parcells and he's in the top 5, but there is no way he was better than Lombardi, based on the remarks posted by others here.

1. Lombardi
2. Shula
3. Brown
4. Landry
5. Parcells



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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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Y!:
#8 Posted on
I don't think you could even say Parcells is the greatest coach of the last 30 years. Better than Noll, Landry, Walsh, Gibbs, et al. I will say that if you could give each coach the same team and have a tournament, Parcells' team would be in the final four, along with Walsh, Gibbs, and Jimmy Johnson.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.09
Jimmy Johnson? I don't think so...put me at the head of a team led by a not-yet-dead from injuries Troy Aikman, Emmit smoth, Deion Sanders, Michael Irvin and the rest of the load of talent the Cowboys had, and see if I make a playoff run with the team.

In San Francisco, was it Seifert who devloped the west coast offense in the 80's? I can't remember, but whoever it was definitely needs to be up there. Now that I think about it, I think it was Walsh...
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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Y!:
#10 Posted on
Damn right, Jimmy Johnson. Don't give me the "Look at all the talent they had..." argument. No coach can succeed without great players. Look at Mike Holmgren. Is he a worse coach now than he was when he was the Packers' coach? Doubtful. In fact, I'd say that he's possibly a better coach now three years later, but the Seahawks don't have the players yet to be completely successful. (Except if they'd played Dilfer...but that's another story.)

I stand by what I said. All coaches. Same exact teams. Same exact players. Same injuries at the same times. Jimmy's in the final four.
DrewDewce
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

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Y!:
#11 Posted on
Hear hear on Holmgren. He should have played Dilfer.

Hard to compare all of these guys because they had such different circumstances. Tom Landry was only a Dallas Cowboys coach. Paired with a different GM, would he have done the same with the Buccaneers of that era, or even the Steelers (The other dominant team of the time?) Same goes for Chuck Noll. Both were very good coaches who got a lot out of their players, but could they have stepped in and done it elsewhere. (I would guess yes, but we really can't know for sure).

Shula did it with Baltimore and Miami. Makes him one of the best in my book.

The Tuna has done quite a bit to fire up 3 franchises that were dead in the water when he got there. Being the best coach doesn't always mean winning the SuperBowl. Sure, it would be nice but those of us who are fans of traditionally struggling teams (Seattle) wouldn't mind being very competetive for a little while before getting impatient for a SuperBowl.

Look at Shottenheimer. What has he ever done? He's never won a SuperBowl, and I can't remember him having a very good playoff record (altho my memory is quite faulty and I could be wrong on that), but he's installed as the newest saviour for San Diego. He'll make them competetive.

I'd put Parcells in the top 10 best pro football coaches I've seen, maybe in the top 5, but probably not at the top. I'd probably have to put Shula there. Bum Phillips who's son Wade used to coach Buffalo and who coached the old Houston Oilers and New Orelans Saints said that Shula was so good that he could beat you with his players, switch jobs with you and beat you with your own players. High praise indeed.

drew2
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.09
Originally posted by JayJayDean
Damn right, Jimmy Johnson. Don't give me the "Look at all the talent they had..." argument. No coach can succeed without great players. Look at Mike Holmgren. Is he a worse coach now than he was when he was the Packers' coach? Doubtful. In fact, I'd say that he's possibly a better coach now three years later, but the Seahawks don't have the players yet to be completely successful. (Except if they'd played Dilfer...but that's another story.)

I stand by what I said. All coaches. Same exact teams. Same exact players. Same injuries at the same times. Jimmy's in the final four.



Good coaches succeed with great players given to them. Great coaches get the most out of good players. Jimmy Johnson's stint at Miami proved he is a good coach.
flaming mo
Mettwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Boonville MO

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#13 Posted on
As far as Johnson having a ton of talent to work with, yes, that is true.

Don't forget, though, that he DRAFTED a lot of those talented players.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#14 Posted on
"Good coaches succeed with great players given to them. Great coaches get the most out of good players. Jimmy Johnson's stint at Miami proved he is a good coach."

Well, that's why I think Parcells is in the top four then. But does that make Marty Schottenheimer a great coach? I don't think either his Cleveland or Kansas City teams had exceptional talent, especially at quarterback, but he got them to several AFC Championship games, even though his team never won the big one. Hell, he won eight games with Tony Banks as his QB this year.

Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by JayJayDean


    Well, that's why I think Parcells is in the top four then. But does that make Marty Schottenheimer a great coach? I don't think either his Cleveland or Kansas City teams had exceptional talent, especially at quarterback, but he got them to several AFC Championship games, even though his team never won the big one. Hell, he won eight games with Tony Banks as his QB this year.




I think you just put Marv Levy in the discussion.



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Sec19Row53
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

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#16 Posted on
I think we've had the same discussion regarding Halls of Fame. You can't compare X to Y and say he's in, because Y might be the bottom of the "in barrel". IF Marty were in the list of "Great Coaches" (which I don't think he is), then you'd be comparing Marv Levy to the bottom of the barrel.



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The Masked Hungarian
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

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#17 Posted on
The ONLY reason why Jimmy drafted a ton of great players is because of the Herschel Walker trade where he basically got 11 high level picks for a declining Walker. I give Jimmy credit only for not screwing it up. What did Jimmy do in Miami?

I feel Parcells is the best simply because he maximized talent in three different places. The man is a winner, which is why the Bucs go after him every five years. Landry and Noll were blessed with great ownership who allowed them to coach for twenty years.

George Seifert, Mike Ditka and Mike Holmgren are the best examples to my argument. All were great coaches with their first team. Then they moved to another team and what happened? Crashed and burned, although the Seahawks are decent. It is hard enough duplicating your success. Parcells did this THREE times. Find me another coach in the history of the NFL who resurrected three franchises. It's impossible and will never be done again. Marty Schottenheimer is a good regular season coach. Unfortunately for him, he cannot win in the playoffs. The Chiefs of the 90s should have made at least one Super Bowl, hell they were a #1 seed twice!!

I also believe that coaching today is much harder than it was thirty - forty years ago. Back then there was no salary cap, your team was your team until you said so. The modern day athlete is also a major problem.

Bill Parcells....best coach ever.
Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

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#18 Posted on
Everyone will have their own take on this - so here's mine :

1) Vince Lombardi - the Pack dominated the 60's, including the first two Super Bowls. The championship trophy is named for him, even. Probably a little (OK, a *lot* ) of home-state bias here.

2) Don Shula - impressive record with Baltimore and Miami, as well as the only perfect season (including a Super Bowl win).

3) Chuck Noll - won back-to-back Super Bowls *twice*.

4) Bill Walsh - excellent record; the coach who put the "West Coast Offense" on the map. Likely owes a great deal of his status to the Montana/Craig/Rice trio, though.

5) Marv Levy - never won the Super Bowl, but got there *four times in a row*; that's not as easy as you think. He would have won Super Bowl XXV, if not for the Giants' massive advantage in time of possession and Scott Norwood's errant foot.

I'd rank Parcells seventh, behind Tom Landry and ahead of George Halas.

Steph




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Ffej
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Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

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Y!:
#19 Posted on
Are we just talking pro? I mean look at college. Bear Brynat is 10 times the coach Parcells was. So is Joe Paterno for that matter. Parsegean at Notre Dame, Bobby Bowden made an awful Florida State team into one of THE elite programs in college football.

Then there is Pop Warner. I'm sorry but all that is modern about football was invented by Pop Warner. Wasn't Pop the first coach to use the Wing T and the foward pass? Pop was to football what the Beatles were to Rock N' Roll- he brought it mainstream front and center.

But Bear Bryant. He won like what? 6 national titles? He won the SEC with Kentucky! Kentucky! We have one of the worst football programs ever assembled and he won the damn SEC with us.

Anyway- to even mention Jimmy Johnson with Vince Lombardi or Bear Bryant is blasphemy.




If I lived back in the wild west days, instead of carrying a six-gun in my holster, I'd carry a soldering iron. That way, if some smart-aleck cowboy said something like "Hey, look. He's carrying a soldering iron!" and started laughing, and everybody else started laughing, I could just say, "That's right, it's a soldering iron. The soldering iron of justice." Then everybody would get real quiet and ashamed, because they had made fun of the soldering iron of justice, and I could probably hit them up for a free drink.
The Masked Hungarian
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

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#20 Posted on
College and the NFL are two totally different animals. A college coach has total domination over his team and his players. He controls who he is bringing in and at least in the old days, knew he'd have the player for four years. College kids, for the most part respect/fear the coach and won't challenge authority. In college you don't HAVE to win a national championship every year, just make the university money via bowl games. In the pros, you have at most four years to win a title, otherwise its time for the next guy. I'd say its a lot more difficult to coach in the pros.

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