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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37
After Ortiz's temper tantrum the other night, I can't see the Red Sox being able to trade the shortstop's bat at this point, so that should kill any chance of a 3 team trade. Johnson has been dominant in his career, but he has struggled in the post season, unless the team he is facing is wearing Yankee jerseys. And, if the Red Sox were going to make a 3 team trade, I'd rather take the prospects from the Cubs and package them with Youkilis to go get Zito (if Oakland does have him on the market).
I still wouldn't mind making a run at Jamie Moyer at this point though. Left hander who can slide into the 3 hole of the rotation would be nice. Just not Kris Benson. Sure his wife is hot, but I don't need to see another Pirates pitcher.
Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
I've wanted Orlando Cabrera more from the start anyway, as he'll cost less in terms of prospects, and be easier to re-sign if they decide to do so. He can also hit in the top two spots in the order, something they desperately need. However, I'll take Rich Aurilia at this point, just to get Rey Ordonez and Jose Macias the hell away from the starting shortstop position. I never thought I'd say this, but I want Alex Gonzalez to get back soon.




(Not Bob Kohm)


In the context of baseball, the use of drugs hurts only the player. In the context of baseball, the use of alcohol hurts only the player. In the context of baseball, womanizing hurts whom? Maybe the wife of the player? In the context of baseball, felonies are crimes against society, not against baseball. In the context of baseball, gambling is the only crime against baseball.

Gambling, in the context of baseball, is a capital offense and Rose has richly earned-- hell, he agreed to-- his death sentence. Let him hang.

Bob Kohm, co-owner of Rotojunkies.com (rotojunkies.com) , and a large market kind of guy.
BOSsportsfan34
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.82
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    After Ortiz's temper tantrum the other night, I can't see the Red Sox being able to trade the shortstop's bat at this point, so that should kill any chance of a 3 team trade. Johnson has been dominant in his career, but he has struggled in the post season, unless the team he is facing is wearing Yankee jerseys. And, if the Red Sox were going to make a 3 team trade, I'd rather take the prospects from the Cubs and package them with Youkilis to go get Zito (if Oakland does have him on the market).
    I still wouldn't mind making a run at Jamie Moyer at this point though. Left hander who can slide into the 3 hole of the rotation would be nice. Just not Kris Benson. Sure his wife is hot, but I don't need to see another Pirates pitcher.


Ortiz would probably get a 3-5 game suspension so I don't think that would affect them trading Nomar if they needed to.

I do like your idea of going after Zito. If Oakland drops out of playoff contention then zito to Boston could be a possibility.



"Once you've seen a woman's cum face, you've seen her soul."

Dr. Christian Troy, from "Nip/Tuck"
chill
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Since: 18.5.02

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.39
Boston could be a great new home for Zito. With Schilling and Pedro nearing the twilight years of their careers, you'd like to see someone who's on the rise in his own career take over as the ace when they're done. Fossum would've been a guy to groom into that role over the years, but Zito could step into it as soon as next year. He's in a funk this year, but that'll work itself out eventually.



The inevitable WILL happen: The Big Unit to the Yankees
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PalpatineW
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
So, RJ shot down a trade to LA.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1848013

What a jackass. The Dodgers are division-leading. His presence could only help them reach the playoffs, and, once there, go further. It's geographically far more convenient for him than NY. Absurd.

While there's nothing wrong with exercising a legitimate no-trade clause, this whole fiasco really pisses me of. Essentially, Johnson is attempting to force the GM to make him a Yankee. I mean, if he didn't want to be on the DBacks, he shouldn't have signed the friggin contract extension last year. Last year. I am certain George would have opened the wallet for Randy, had he asked. What a complete bitch. you signed the contract, you took the money; now ride it out. If Garagiola has any stones whatsoever, he will tell Randy Johnson to a.) sack up and b.) shut up.



In Theo We Trust
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
If he's got the no-trade, he can use it however he sees fit. I'm not too concenred with it because the D-Backs, after all, gave it to him.



Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
You shouldn't give leverage to someone if you don't want them to use it.



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SC
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Since: 11.12.01
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.40
It's hardly absurd or a crime against baseball that Randy Johnson doesn't want to play for the Dodgers. He has a right to say where he won't work, and he has an even bigger one since the Diamondbacks gave him a no-trade clause. The club has the option of just not trading him. If they don't want his salary it's not HIS fault they gave it to him. I don't see what it has to do with Garagiola's testicles, either, Randy Johnson is not demanding a trade. They're trying to trade him, he's just saying where he WON'T go, and they gave him the right to do that.



dotcom // cubs.org // let's go hero
chill
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Since: 18.5.02

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.36
As big a Yankees fan as I am, I'm almost hoping RJ stays put - just so I can watch him cause more trouble. He has every right to do what he's doing. Arizona got themselves into this mess - they can get themselves out by playing according to RJ's rules. The longer they wait, the less they're going to be able to hold out and demand more in return from the Yankees. Sadly, the Yankees need him (or anyone healthy) badly. I see their priorities as:

1. Johnson...and hopefully they've gotten through their phase of wanting Jamie Moyer.
2. bullpen help to take some stress off the big three.
3. if the RJ deal goes through and they get Mantei & Alomar as part of the deal, KEEP Alomar and don't release him as the rumor says they plan to.
4. laugh at the DBacks for trading away a handful of good players (including Lyle Overbay) for the overrated Richie Sexson. Injured or not, Sexson was a bad trade since I see him leaving in a year (or this coming winter, I forget exactly) when his contract is up.
5. find some 1B help... preferably not McGriff, only because his bat sucks. His glovework on the other hand is a plus for a bench player.

Back to the issue, RJ is going to act up if he stays in AZ, he will get called a spoiled brat and several other names, but I (and the media) will love it. He allegly got into it with Luiz Gonzalez a little while ago and shoved him into a water cooler. What are the odds Vince McMahon can sign the Big Unit away from the DBacks? :P



The inevitable WILL happen: The Big Unit to the Yankees
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drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.55
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

"His tits are at least REAL." (Kane Is Ugly)


Well, the thing you've gotta keep in mind with Sexson is that last season, he played every inning. He's always been absurdly durable, so maybe you could've seen this coming, but I bet you didn't. Plus, there's no real reason to think that he wouldn't sign with them. Of course, that's not counting the fact that he HASN'T yet. ;P



DEAN's Nuggets of Wisdom:

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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
Arizona giving Johnson a no-trade is meaningless anyway, as Randy has 10-5 rights at this point to block a trade. The no-trade only has importance if he allows himself to be traded and loses 10-5, then he could prevent whatever team he ends up with from dealing him off next season without approval. If he ends up with the Yankees, he ends up with the Yankees. Just, for the love of God, don't let him end up in Anaheim.
jfkfc
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Since: 9.2.02

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87
    Originally posted by chill
    1. Johnson...and hopefully they've gotten through their phase of wanting Jamie Moyer.
You know, I think it goes without saying that when you talk up a team's rotation, it always starts out with the words "A healthy....." Maybe I am loopy, but I think that a healthy Brown (pitching Friday), Mussina (eventually), and Vasquez could surely hang with any other team in baseball, and that's not including The Duke (Hernandez), The Dutchess (Contreres), and Lieber (who was ON last night vs TOR). You always have IFs. Every team has IFs in their rotation. Moose will be ready and healthy sooner or later, as will Brown, and Vasquez will be fine.
    Originally posted by chill
    2. bullpen help to take some stress off the big three.
I think they should have included Heredia in the Gabe White dump somehow. This guy is a Yankee because he is a lefty and because he...um...is a lefty.
    Originally posted by chill
    5. find some 1B help... preferably not McGriff, only because his bat sucks. His glovework on the other hand is a plus for a bench player.
I think the Yanks should activate Donnie Baseball before they sign McGriff. They should definitely see if they could pry Tino out of Tampa (if Tino was in a Boston uniform, kicked Frank Torre's ass, emailed out naked pictures of Jeter's mom, and took a shit on the Babe's statue out in Monument Park, the Yankee fans would cheer him anyway...hell, I know I would).

Getting back on track, I would rather see Johnson go to Boston. Bringing him to the Bronx would be such a letdown to me. I went into the season feeling the Yanks would win it all with the team they had, not because I knew they would trade for the remaining non-Yankee all-stars (all 4 of them). If we lost to Pedro-Schilling-Johnson, so be it. It will surely happen sooner or later, be it 2004 or 2040. At least go into it knowing that you didn't take the excitement away. Granted, with a $200 payroll and 8 seasons past, you won't have the electricity that the '96 team generated, but I would feel good beating a Randy Johnson-enhanced Sox team.

And if they bring in Alomar at 2B instead of Cairo, that will surely suck major balls...



"I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fucked up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college bullshit I got two words for that: learn to fuckin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuckin' surprise."
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.36
No, Alomar should cheer Cairo from the bench. He's still a decent clutch hitter, and perhaps he'd suck in New York, but I'd get a good feeling seeing him come off the bench in the 8th or 9th inning. I love Cairo. I wish more of the position players were like him - good role player who's not an All-Star or making 8 figures.

The problem with being a Yankees fan NOW as opposed to in `97 or `98, is that 90% of the players on the team would be seen as one of the best players on any other team. It's not as fun now as it was to watch a TEAM of the `98 Yankees do the same (and often more) than today's team will do. They were all role players, and now it's all stars. Ah, it could still be a lot worse.

Good thinking with Tino. The Yankees allegedly won't be making any moves with starting pitching if they dont' get RJ. I'm fine with that. I'll be extremely happy if the Twins end up with Benson, which is looking like it'll happen anyday now.

I'll take a Paul O'Neill over a Gary Sheffield, Matsui, Giambi, or Lofton anyday. A-Rod is the kind of player the Yankees have always had: a legend in the making. But I can live without the Giambis and Sheffields. When's the next time we'll get to watch a Yankee grow into a star from the time he first comes up from AAA, like Posada? Not anytime in the next 5 years (or a lot more), I'm thinking.

(edited by chill on 29.7.04 1017)


The inevitable WILL happen: The Big Unit to the Yankees
dvd shelf // game shelf // roh/indy thread // laird // goldeyes.com //

PalpatineW
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Since: 2.1.02
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by ScottChrist
    It's hardly absurd or a crime against baseball that Randy Johnson doesn't want to play for the Dodgers. He has a right to say where he won't work, and he has an even bigger one since the Diamondbacks gave him a no-trade clause. The club has the option of just not trading him. If they don't want his salary it's not HIS fault they gave it to him. I don't see what it has to do with Garagiola's testicles, either, Randy Johnson is not demanding a trade. They're trying to trade him, he's just saying where he WON'T go, and they gave him the right to do that.


I agree with all of this, except most reports have Johnson and the DBacks both desiring a parting of the ways.

What I find absurd is his almost childish insistence on being traded to the Yankees, i.e. reports over the past week that if they dont send him to NY he'll make life miserable for them in the clubhouse. You could say we don't know those reports are true, but then we could also ask Seattle fans how things were for them.

He has every right to exercise his no-trade clause, but I don't think it's kosher for him to throw a tantrum (or threaten to do so) when his trade demands are not met. It's a no-trade clause, not a force-trade clause.



In Theo We Trust
BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25
Thing is, if the D-Backs hadn't given Johnson a no-trade clause, he probably wouldn't have stayed in Arizona to begin with. He'd have left as a free agent, and they'd get nothing back for him. Even if he gets traded to the Yanks for next to nothing, next to nothing is still better than nothing; they're still better off than if they'd just let the Unit walk away in the offseason.

There's a reason guys want no-trade clauses - they're signing with teams they want to play for for reasons other than the money or because the team is right there ready to win. You ask for a no-trade when you're joining (or staying with) a team because you like the community, because you're loyal to the franchise, or other reasons that are generally admirable. Those teams get you at a bargain, so if you get something of value back (ie. the ability to choose where you play) you should be free to use it without criticism.



The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    Thing is, if the D-Backs hadn't given Johnson a no-trade clause, he probably wouldn't have stayed in Arizona to begin with. He'd have left as a free agent, and they'd get nothing back for him. Even if he gets traded to the Yanks for next to nothing, next to nothing is still better than nothing; they're still better off than if they'd just let the Unit walk away in the offseason.
Uh, except that Johnson is signed through next year and the D-Backs plan on competing in 2005.

(edited by Grimis on 29.7.04 1419)


emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.47
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    There's a reason guys want no-trade clauses - they're signing with teams they want to play for for reasons other than the money or because the team is right there ready to win. You ask for a no-trade when you're joining (or staying with) a team because you like the community, because you're loyal to the franchise, or other reasons that are generally admirable. Those teams get you at a bargain, so if you get something of value back (ie. the ability to choose where you play) you should be free to use it without criticism.
Absolutely agree. IMO, as bad as things have been all season, the last straw for Randy was the Brenley firing. Randy & Brenley are close, & up til that point, we were at least pretending that we'd be competitive if only we were healthy.

    Originally posted by Grimis
    [[...]] and the D-Backs plan on competing in 2005.
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! And I plan on being the WWE Intercontinental Champion by Wrestlemania next year. :-) Seriously, where did you hear that? All I've heard (& everything they're doing, including the Pedrique appointment) is "young talent", "development", "long term potential", bla-bla.

(Incidentally, today's installment of "Count the Major Leaguers" (How many DBacks starting players have at least 2 full years major league experience?) is the usual 3 -- Gonzalez, Finley, Hillenbrand. Did I mention that Gonzalez is having season-enging surgery on Monday -- he's been deferring it til after the trading deadline. Finley's also strongly rumoured as being traded. Hey, Shea Hillenbrand is our superstar!! But I digress.)

(As I type, I've got the DBacks/Astros game on in the background.They do a spot where Mark Grace answers email questions from fans. Today's question: "What do the D'Backs have to do to improve for next season?" Gracie literally laughed for 10 seconds, then said, "How long do you have?" :-) )

    Originally posted by chill
    Back to the issue, RJ is going to act up if he stays in AZ, he will get called a spoiled brat and several other names, but I (and the media) will love it. He allegly got into it with Luiz Gonzalez a little while ago and shoved him into a water cooler.

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    What I find absurd is his almost childish insistence on being traded to the Yankees, i.e. reports over the past week that if they dont send him to NY he'll make life miserable for them in the clubhouse. You could say we don't know those reports are true, but then we could also ask Seattle fans how things were for them.
We don't know these reports are true. (You offered. :-) ) I'm skeptical that Randy has been wandering around threatening -- he's been infinitely professional publicly in his handling of all this mess -- not taking stuff to the media, etc. It's just not consistent with his usual self.

I don't buy the "acting up" just for the sake of being petulant. Randy is an emotional player. He's frustrated as hell that no matter what he does, the rest of the team blows everything he does. Rather than the long-term, experienced manager that he signed on for, he's got a minor league manager who hasn't a clue how to deal with a legitimate superstar. What the hell did he do to end up playing for a AAA team? His catcher is very important to him, & since Hammock finally got hurt so badly that he had to give it up, he's stuck with so-so rookies straight out of AAA. The whole thing is hideously frustrating for him. I can relate 100%.

Yeah, a couple of weeks ago there was a (clubhouse) squabble between Randy & Gonzalez. I don't remember the details, but they'd just blown another Randy game. I can't get too worked up about one locker room squabble among high-end players. (I'm sure that sort of thing never happens in any other losing locker room. :-) ) But that one specific example becomes moot as of Monday when Gonzo's gone anyway.

(edited by emma on 29.7.04 1322)
BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Uh, except that Johnson is signed through next year and the D-Backs plan on competing in 2005.


Fine. Keep him then. I've never advocated that guys should be able to force trades to specific teams when their team wants to keep them. The point I was making was that the D-Backs would be better off trading him to the Yanks for way less than value than if they had let him go in the off season, which would have been the case had they not given him a no-trade clause. I say that in response to the notion that it's wrong of Johnson to be selective about which team (Yanks) he'll accept a trade to and which teams (everyone else) he won't.

On another note...it's nice to hear that the D-Backs wanna compete next year. I hate that some teams exist with clearly no mandate to win. If they wanna do that, though, they should move Johnson and free up his 16 million dollar contract, especially with the latest rumours that they'll be able to package a guy like Roberto Alomar into the deal to make up for the fact that they're getting little back. Clearly you can't win with just Randy Johnson, so if they can free up his money and get a few good pieces, they'll probably be much closer to mattering next year.



The beatings will continue until morale improves.
edoug
Summer sausage








Since: 13.2.04
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.13
I didn't see redsoxnation's post.

(edited by edoug on 29.7.04 1632)
Whitebacon
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
    Originally posted by edoug
    All Major Leaguers that have been in the league for ten years, five with the same team, can veto trades. This is Johnson's sixth season with the DBacks. So they didn't give him anything he already had just by signing his current contract. Johnson is far too valuable for him to be a salary dump for a few spare parts. Alomar just makes a million so he isn't that hard to move.
    http://kffl.com/player/5274/MLB.


As had been mentioned previously, including the no-trade clause in the contract enables him to keep the no-trade rights if he agrees to be traded. You lose 5-10 rights as soon as you leave/get traded.



Girthy
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