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The W - Football - Big Ten seeks 12
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Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/badgers/79102417.html


    James E. Delany, commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, plans to identify and aggressively recruit a 12th school for the league.


So besides the obvious Fighting Irish elephant in the corner, who do you guys think are possibilities for this?

They've made it clear that part of this is the conference football championship, so it needs to be a school that plays D-I football. In the 8 states that have Big Ten schools, these are the other FBS schools:
Iowa State (from the Big 12), Notre Dame (football indepent, Big East in other sports), Cincinnati and Pittsburgh (from the Big East) and all the MAC teams except Buffalo (including Temple, which is in the MAC for football, and the Atlantic 10 for everything else).

Originally I thought that anything other than one of those four BCS schools would be a let-down, but now I'm not so sure. I mean Cincinnati has only been in the Big East for two years (they were C-USA before that), so who am I to say that they're good enough for the Big Ten but Ohio University isn't? It's probably just bias on my part.

Are there any other possibilities? They wouldn't expand to West Virginia or Kentucky or Missouri, would they?
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Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    http://www.jsonline.com/​sports/​badgers/​79102417.html


      James E. Delany, commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, plans to identify and aggressively recruit a 12th school for the league.


    So besides the obvious Fighting Irish elephant in the corner, who do you guys think are possibilities for this?

    They've made it clear that part of this is the conference football championship, so it needs to be a school that plays D-I football. In the 8 states that have Big Ten schools, these are the other FBS schools:
    Iowa State (from the Big 12), Notre Dame (football indepent, Big East in other sports), Cincinnati and Pittsburgh (from the Big East) and all the MAC teams except Buffalo (including Temple, which is in the MAC for football, and the Atlantic 10 for everything else).

    Originally I thought that anything other than one of those four BCS schools would be a let-down, but now I'm not so sure. I mean Cincinnati has only been in the Big East for two years (they were C-USA before that), so who am I to say that they're good enough for the Big Ten but Ohio University isn't? It's probably just bias on my part.

    Are there any other possibilities? They wouldn't expand to West Virginia or Kentucky or Missouri, would they?


Probably because Ohio's never won 2 straight conference titles in the MAC, much less the Big East, including an undefeated season.

Obvious choices for me would be Northern Illinois and Cincinnati, but I don't see Cincinnati leaving the Big East, especially with their basketball program giving the BE 16 schools. So, NIU it is.. solid football program, basketball could probably be decent, and there's already two B10 teams in Illinois so expanding there isn't such a bad idea. Iowa State is an intriguing possibility, never considered them before.. they are a horrible fit in the B12, and I don't think they're a B8 original.



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edoug
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Since: 13.2.04
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.10
If the schools have anything to do with the choosing, You can probably eliminate Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Syracuse might be interested but right now basketball rules there and I don't think Boeheim wants to leave the Big East. Rutgers might fit if they want the New York market.



lotjx
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.78
I wouldn't rule out Pitt since they want nothing more to play Penn State. If the Big 10 could due that, they will sign the contract tomorrow and keep WVU as the out of conference game. I don't see ND doing due to the NBC contract, but we will see since they basically play a Big Ten schedule anyway to start the season.
BongHitter
Linguica








Since: 12.8.02
From: Iowa

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
Iowa State has been in the Big 8/Big 12 since 1910. I can't imagine them jumping ship to the Big 10. There has also been no buzz at all around here that this is even being considered, and Iowa State's campus is just a few miles from my front door. Sure they're usually just a Big 12 also-ran, but I don't see that situation improving if they join the Big 10.
TheOldMan
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Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.47
When this was last tossed around (before ND signed their original NBC deal), it was supposed to be as much about pulling in viewers as anything, for the in-the-planning Big Ten Network. They really, REALLY want ND, but as the NBC deal was just extended last year, that's over unless the Irish want to commit now to joining in 2016. (And that's a long time for all their other sports to be lame ducks in the Big East.)

As I recall, it was Rutgers that was being bandied about as the fallback last time, but I think Pitt would certainly fit well if they want in. Iowa State isn't really what the league is looking for (a fresh TV market), and I don't see how Northern Illinois is even in the conversation.




TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.15
This is hardly a new discussion. Syracuse and Pitt have been rumored to the Big 10 pretty much since the conference was raided the first time, and Rutgers has also been part of the discussion in recent years.

Also, Cincinnati has been in the Big East for five years, not two. And that's a pretty huge difference, as it means every player there right now was recruited while the team was in a BCS conference. But Cincinnati is not going to the Big 10. The Bearcats really would do nothing for the conference, except MAYBE be more competitive than Rutgers or Syracuse would be - but even that's up in the air with Brian Kelly gone.
kwik
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Since: 5.9.02
From: Norwich, NY

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.99
    Originally posted by edoug
    If the schools have anything to do with the choosing, You can probably eliminate Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Syracuse might be interested but right now basketball rules there and I don't think Boeheim wants to leave the Big East. Rutgers might fit if they want the New York market.


The issue for 'Cuse might not be so much basketball as football- it was another losing season, but Doug Marrone might just be snapping them out of the Greg Robinson inspired funk they've been in lately. The Big East is actually an up in the air conference, especially with Cincy coach hunting. In other words, I think Syracuse could be competitive in the Big East much, much sooner then they'd be in the Big whatever-it's-going-to-be-called.

Of course I also think that the Big East, as far as basketball is concerned, is actually TOO big, and if Boeheim agrees with me (though, odds are, he probably *won't* be consulting me on this, for some odd reason), then Syracuse would probably jump if they get the offer.

But it all hinges on what Boffo said in the first post- if there's even so much as a whisper of "affiliation" from South Bend, then they'd start throwing teams out of the Big Ten to get the Irish in.

(edited by kwik on 13.12.09 0004)


Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
Actually, due to academic standards that the B10 has, the following teams have no chance of getting in:

- Missouri
- Buffalo (and several other MAC schools.. no way they take a directional Michigan school though)
- Iowa State
- Cincinnati
- West Virginia
- Louisville
- Kentucky

Unless the B10 lowers their standards.. and why would they for those teams?

Maryland, Rutgers, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Nebraska, and Pittsburgh could all get in under the current standards. Maryland and ND won't join, Syracuse shouldn't forfeit all the money they make in basketball playing their rivals, and Nebraska is too traditionally set in the B12 to make a jump like that, so we're down to Rutgers and Pittsburgh. I could see Rutgers joining, Pittsburgh would want to join for football feud w/Penn State, but with Joe Pa leaving soon, that may be a reality even if Pitt stays in BE. B10 could use the presence in NY (having Chicago and NY in your conference is good) so I see Rutgers having the best chance.

Also, the B10 has screwed Notre Dame out of joining before, so I hear there's NO interest from Notre Dame here, plus they're already in BE basketball. The BE as a football conference is still fine.. Louisville and Syracuse will be up, Cincinnati will be mediocre, Rutgers and WVU will be above average, and Pitt should be a contender for a bit. They'd just need to add a team like ECU really.

(edited by Psycho Penguin on 13.12.09 0401)

(edited by Psycho Penguin on 13.12.09 0407)

(edited by Psycho Penguin on 13.12.09 1535)

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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
Missouri might make the most sense geographically if they are going to do a split in order to make it less cost prohibitive for the non-money making sports. And, I definitely can see why Alvarez is in favor of this, as a likely split would be
East
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Indiana
Purdue

West
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Illinois
Missouri/Iowa State etc.

If they go with a Pitt or State University of New Jersey or Syracuse or a dark horse in Louisville, they would probably have to split up the Indiana schools, as there really is no way they do a split that puts Michigan and Ohio State away from each other.
Seeing the way Alvarez has scheduled football through the years, I can see him pushing for 2 non-conference games and 5 home/away games versus your division, thus to duck Ohio State and Michigan, I mean, to make the conference title game a pure match-up.
Now, if the Big East is raided, would that mean Central Florida and Memphis would become candidates to fill out the league at 16/8?
If the Big XII is raided, does that mean SMU/Houston/TCU fight it out for redemption over being snubbed when the SWC folded?
Should the Big 10 go conference title game, then that would almost definitely mean the Pac 10 goes that way as well. Would it be BYU/Utah that would go in, or Colorado/Colorado State?
As Arkansas in the late 80's showed and the ACC raid of the Big East showed in the mid 00's, once one move is made, many others follow.
BoromirMark
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Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.88
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
    Also, the B10 has screwed Notre Dame out of joining before, so I hear there's NO interest from Notre Dame here


Wrong way around. ND was in the Big 10 until their alumni voted it down, citing all the arrogant jackass independence nonsense. ND screwed ND, the Big 10's bent over backwards to get them.




Michigan against the SEC: 20-5-1 (7-3 in bowl games)

Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
Actually, it's highly speculated Notre Dame was blackballed from the B10 because of their Catholic status.

"However, Sperber's "Shake Down the Thunder" places principal responsibility for the Big Ten blackballing and boycotting Notre Dame on Yost, as well as the charge that this was motivated by anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant prejudice common in the early 20th century."



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CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.23
Boise State has been mentioned a couple of times as well. Maybe if they get rid of that stupid blue field people may take them seriously.
dunkndollaz
Banger
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Northern NJ

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.26
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    Boise State has been mentioned a couple of times as well. Maybe if they get rid of that stupid blue field people may take them seriously.

we know that the boys from oklahoma take them pretty seriously - folks in fort worth will too soon enough



I think my kids are trying to kill me
Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
I wanted to mention a couple interesting articles/blog posts that have clarified things for me.

http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2009/12/12/1197156/barry-alvarezs-expansion-talk-has points out that there's a big problem with setting divisions if the 12th team is an eastern team (and eastern in this case means east of Lake Michigan). You'd have to split up one of the in-state rivalries (either Michigan/Michigan State or Indiana/Purdue) to make it work. Remember this is the conference that's always talking about maintaining the tradition of the Rose Bowl, so that kind of thing matters to them.

In another post on the same blog http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2009/12/15/1201483/big-ten-expansion-warning-system , they point out the academic difficulties. As they say, it's not necessarily the quality of the undergraduate program, it's how they do as a research university.

Indeed, http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/92/2009/december/15/several-points-to-remember-on-big-ten-expansion.html notes that all Big Ten schools are members of the Association of American Universities, a leading research university organization. Notre Dame is not a member of the AAU, but Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Iowa State, and Missouri are.
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    I wanted to mention a couple interesting articles/blog posts that have clarified things for me.

    http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/​2009/​12/​12/​1197156/​barry-​alvarezs-​expansion-​talk-​has points out that there's a big problem with setting divisions if the 12th team is an eastern team (and eastern in this case means east of Lake Michigan). You'd have to split up one of the in-state rivalries (either Michigan/Michigan State or Indiana/Purdue) to make it work. Remember this is the conference that's always talking about maintaining the tradition of the Rose Bowl, so that kind of thing matters to them.


The ACC has teams from each division, like Maryland/Virginia and NC State/UNC, play each other once a year automatically. The B10 could have a similar system.



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They won't lose all three, but they won't win them all either. And let me be the first(?) to call the upset of the week (well, outside of Louisville over FSU), Kentucky goes to Swamp and pulls the upset.
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