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28.11.14 1934
The W - Pro Wrestling - Big Show: a gigantically fickle man
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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.28
The latest change of sides for Big Show inspired me to try and figure out how many times he's done it. I've flipped thru the wikipedia page to get a start:


  1. February 1999 - debuted as a heel
  2. spring 1999 - turned face (UNION)
  3. fall 1999 - turned heel (teamed with Undertaker, Undertaker tells a tale of leaving Big Show to die in the desert)
  4. later fall 1999 - turned face (feud with Boss Man)
  5. early 2000 - turned heel (Rock feet out at Royal Rumble, poor hair cut)
  6. post WM 2000 - turned face (comedy parody gimmick, vs Shane)
  7. summer 2000 - turned heel (allied with Shane, vs Undertaker
    [OVW fat farm - returned Jan 2001 still as a heel]
  8. summer 2001 - turned face (Invasion)
  9. early 2002 - turned heel (post-first Draft, w/Flair, nWo)
    [heel thru 2002, jumps to SD, attacks Angle in April 2004, gone for months]
  10. mid 2004 - turned face (attacks Angle, Akebono, Snitsky)
  11. late 2005 - turned heel (w/Kane, invading RAW as part of SmackDown, but stayed heel on RAW for a while)
  12. early 2006 - turned face (Masters/Carlito, vs Kane)
  13. July 2006 - turned heel (ECW, Heyman)
    [contract expires in Feb 2007, returned in Feb 2008 as a heel]
  14. WM 2008 - turned face (Mayweather turns out to be a heel)
  15. summer 2008 - turned heel (Undertaker, Vicki Guerrero, Cena, Jeri-Show, ShowMiz)
  16. April 2010 - turned face (Jack Swagger, the Corre)
  17. May 2012 - turned heel (Cena)


Am I missing any? The 1999-2000 stuff gets hard to figure.

16 turns in 10.5 years (not counting the periods where he's left the company/banned to OVW), which is about a turn every 18 months. Show got off to an epic start by turning 4 times in his first year and they've calmed down a lot, but even every two years seems often when he's going to be working with the same people.

I recall WCW not going much better, but I don't want to check.



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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.92
His primary finisher is the WMD.

His secondary finisher is the Shocking Swerve.



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Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.47
What about Kane? Doesn't he have more turns than Big Show?



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Since: 13.11.11
From: Virginia Beach

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.33
Lets see in WCW he came in as a heel in 1995 turned face in the Summer of '96 to face Hogan for the title joined the NWO a month later and then was thrown out of the NWO after Starcade and turned face again. He turned heel late 97 early 98 and rejoined the NWO and stayed with the NWO until early 99 when the NWO turned on him and he turned face again and lost a loser leaves town match to Nash closing the book on his WCW career.
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.92
    Originally posted by thecubsfan

    16 turns in 10.5 years (not counting the periods where he's left the company/banned to OVW), which is about a turn every 18 months.


Are we sure on the math on that?

Either way, it's far too much, but somehow the guy still manages to win people over when he's face again. Just got one of those personalities i guess.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
so close

0. October 1997 - debuted as a heel
1. September 1998 - turns face, double-turn with Undertaker
2. December 1998 - turns heel, joins the Corporation
3. March 1999 - turns face, turned on by Triple H and Chyna
4. August 2000 - turns heel, turns on Undertaker
5. January 2001 - turns face, reunites with Undertaker
6. July 2003 - turns heel, loses mask
7. October 2004 - turns face, Snitsky inadvertently causes his baby's miscarriage but it wasn't his fault
8. November 2005 - Big Show & Kane are Raw heels on Smackdown
9. January 2006 - yeah but not really
10. July 2008 - turns heel, comes to Raw all "is he alive or is he dead?"
11. November 2009 - turns face, joins Undertaker against Jerishow
12. July 2010 - turns heel, puts Undertaker in a persistent vegetative state
13. March 2011 - turns face, joins Big Show against the Corre
14. December 2011 - turns heel, puts mask on
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
October 1997: Kane attacks Undertaker
January 1998: Kane and Undertaker unite against DX
January 1998: Kane sets Undertaker on fire in a casket
July 1998: Kane and Undertaker unite against Austin
October 1998: Kane and Undertaker split up over the title, Taker and Paul Bearer turn on Kane
May 2000: Undertaker returns as American Bad Ass, Kane and Undertaker unite against McMahon-Helmsley Regime
July 2000: Kane turns on Undertaker
January 2001: Kane and Undertaker unite against Rikishi and Haku, stay together all year until Undertaker turns Booger Red heel but doesn't work with Kane
October 2002: Kane and Undertaker are each babyfaces on Raw and Smackdown, commiserate over Katie Vick and adultery entrapment
November 2003: unmasked Kane buries biker Undertaker alive
March 2004: Undertaker returns as dead Undertaker to defeat Kane
January 2005: Kane and Undertaker unite against Heidenreich and Snitsky
November 2005: Raw heels Kane and Big Show attack SD face Undertaker
November 2006: Kane and Undertaker unite against Ken Kennedy and MVP
November 2009: Kane and Undertaker unite against Jerishow
June 2010: Kane puts Undertaker in a persistent vegetative state, then later buries him alive
March 2011: a plan for Wrestlemania involves Kane and Undertaker uniting against the Corre but instead it ends up being Kane and Big Show
hansen9j
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Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.59
I think you're missing a May 19 heel turn/fake Kane face turn in there.



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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by hansen9j
    I think you're missing a May 19 heel turn/fake Kane face turn in there.


I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that the date-based voices were making him act that way against his will. But he tried to murder Rachael Taylor FOR REALS on set so it should probably count.
Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.49

What about Luger? He always seemed to be the benchmark for constant turns.
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
    Originally posted by The King of Keith
    What about Kane? Doesn't he have more turns than Big Show?


Kane spends a lot of his time being the guy you have to face when you have made somebody in power mad. He reaches across the aisle to one extreme or another, but he spends a lot of his time as an Independent.
SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
You might as well put:

17. Turns face after end of feud with Cena.



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dwaters
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Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.25
The fact that Kane and Big Show have teamed and feuded so often just makes it even more difficult to keep track.

Is it me or have dramatic, well-done turns become a thing of the past? (no more "Barber Shop Window" moments)
DJ FrostyFreeze
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.25
Read it and weep, fella


    Originally posted by dwaters
    Is it me or have dramatic, well-done turns become a thing of the past? (no more "Barber Shop Window" moments)
Those Type of Turns Take Time (the 5 T's!), something which the E very seldom gives to angles these days. So to answer your question, "Yes".

The only potential turn they have up their sleeve right now is Cena and it just aint happenin'. Funny thing: Even if it did, I think so much of the audience has been clamoring for it for so long, it might not even have the "Barbershop effect" you were talking about, due to how long we've been sitting around waiting for it.

*** I know there is a LARGE portion of the audience that loves John Cena to death and doesnt want to see him turn. I know this. I'm just saying that those of us not in that camp probably wouldnt be THAT shocked by a Cena turn, only because of how long it's taken to happen.



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Deputy Marshall
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Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

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#15 Posted on
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo

    What about Luger?


Oh my God.

0. Debuts in the NWA in '87. Becomes a peripheral member of the Horsemen before replacing Ole.
1. January '88 - Luger refuses to take a dive so JJ Dillon can win the Bunkhouse Stampede battle royal, turning face.
2. June '89 - After teasing a heel turn during a feud with Michael Hayes, Luger turns heel and attacks Ricky Steamboat.
3. February '90 - Luger turns face again and aligns with Sting (who was legit injured; Luger took his place in programs).
4. July '91 - Luger turns heel at the Great American Bash. Again, this was necessitated by a vacancy. This time, it was Flair leaving the company.
4a. In '92, Luger leaves WCW for the WWF, debuting as a heel. Some would argue this counts as a turn since he was portrayed as a sympathetic face before his actual in-ring debut in both his WBF stint & after the motorcycle accident that sidelined him. I won't do that.
5. July 4th, 1993 - Luger inexplicably turns face to bodyslam Yokozuna. Again, it was out of necessity: Hogan left the company.
6. Fall 1995 - Luger jumps back to WCW. Turns full fledged heel at Halloween Havoc.
7. March '96 - Luger turns face because he was a failure and the other heels hated him. Seriously, that was the storyline.
8. January '99 - Luger turns heel along with the rest of the nWo Wolfpac en masse.
9. August '99 - Luger comes back from injury and is a face again. Now known only as The Total Package.
10. November/December '99 - Luger turns heel again.
11. April 2000 - Luger turns face as part of the Millionaires Club vs. New Blood storyline.
12. September 2000 - After returning from injury, Luger is a heel. I guess because he got a bad haircut.
13. Late 2003 - Luger shows up in TNA as a heel.
14. April 2006 - Luger shows up in TNA again as a face.

Counting his TNA stints in this timeline is being a bit generous, since neither really amounted to much and...well, it's TNA. Still, that's a lot of turning.

You also have to consider that Luger spent a decent amount of time on the shelf during his career. So depending on your reasoning, that either necessitated more turns or prevented him from acquiring more.

Also, even though nobody asked, his best run hands down was the heel one he had in '91 where he was aligned with Harley Race and used the piledriver as his finisher. Just awesome work done by him and Race during an otherwise awful era for WCW. His worst, hands down, has to be when he came back in August of '99 and was simply known as "The Total Package."

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 23.5.12 0003)


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Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.49
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      Originally posted by The King of Keith
      What about Kane? Doesn't he have more turns than Big Show?


    Kane spends a lot of his time being the guy you have to face when you have made somebody in power mad. He reaches across the aisle to one extreme or another, but he spends a lot of his time as an Independent.


I HATE this trope. I really wish Punk or someone would cut off Johnny L when he says, "Tonight...you face..."

"Kane. It's Kane isn't it? It's always Kane."
dwaters
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Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.25
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    I HATE this trope. I really wish Punk or someone would cut off Johnny L when he says, "Tonight...you face..."

    "Kane. It's Kane isn't it? It's always Kane."


Perfect.

I can so picture this and hear Punk saying that.

Edge was always another good one for pointing out the cliches of the biz.
ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.13
    Originally posted by dwaters
      Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
      I HATE this trope. I really wish Punk or someone would cut off Johnny L when he says, "Tonight...you face..."

      "Kane. It's Kane isn't it? It's always Kane."


    Perfect.

    I can so picture this and hear Punk saying that.

    Edge was always another good one for pointing out the cliches of the biz.


I also thought it was funny when John Cena was feuding with one of the guys in charge, who says that he'd given Umaga the night off. "Right. Which means he'll jump me at the end of the night, right? In the locker room, in the parking lot, in the shower... God, please not in the shower. I don't think anyone wants to see that."

Luger actually turned face because he was a failure as a heel and none of the other bad guys liked him? Ha! Happened just before I started watching.

I can't imagine how many times Flair has turned.

(edited by ekedolphin on 22.5.12 2043)


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Since: 20.6.02
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.03
I bet Foley has a number of heel/face turns...especially during his time in TNA.



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Since: 24.7.02

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.78
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
      Originally posted by Scottyflamingo

      What about Luger?


    Oh my God.

    0. Debuts in the NWA in '87. Becomes a peripheral member of the Horsemen before replacing Ole.
    1. January '88 - Luger refuses to take a dive so JJ Dillon can win the Bunkhouse Stampede battle royal, turning face.
    2. June '89 - After teasing a heel turn during a feud with Michael Hayes, Luger turns heel and attacks Ricky Steamboat.
    3. February '90 - Luger turns face again and aligns with Sting (who was legit injured; Luger took his place in programs).
    4. July '91 - Luger turns heel at the Great American Bash. Again, this was necessitated by a vacancy. This time, it was Flair leaving the company.
    4a. In '92, Luger leaves WCW for the WWF, debuting as a heel. Some would argue this counts as a turn since he was portrayed as a sympathetic face before his actual in-ring debut in both his WBF stint & after the motorcycle accident that sidelined him. I won't do that.
    5. July 4th, 1993 - Luger inexplicably turns face to bodyslam Yokozuna. Again, it was out of necessity: Hogan left the company.
    6. Fall 1995 - Luger jumps back to WCW. Turns full fledged heel at Halloween Havoc.
    7. March '96 - Luger turns face because he was a failure and the other heels hated him. Seriously, that was the storyline.
    8. January '99 - Luger turns heel along with the rest of the nWo Wolfpac en masse.
    9. August '99 - Luger comes back from injury and is a face again. Now known only as The Total Package.
    10. November/December '99 - Luger turns heel again.
    11. April 2000 - Luger turns face as part of the Millionaires Club vs. New Blood storyline.
    12. September 2000 - After returning from injury, Luger is a heel. I guess because he got a bad haircut.
    13. Late 2003 - Luger shows up in TNA as a heel.
    14. April 2006 - Luger shows up in TNA again as a face.

    Counting his TNA stints in this timeline is being a bit generous, since neither really amounted to such and...well, it's TNA. Still, that's a lot of turning.

    You also have to consider that Luger spent a decent amount of time on the shelf during his career. So depending on your reasoning, that either necessitated more turns or prevented him from acquiring more.

    Also, even though nobody asked, his best run hands down was the heel one he had in '91 where he was aligned with Harley Race and used the piledriver as his finisher. Just awesome work done by him and Race during an otherwise awful era for WCW. His worst, hands down, has to be when he came back in August of '99 and was simply known as "The Total Package."

    (edited by Deputy Marshall on 22.5.12 1918)



If you go Florida he had a heel start and face turn to start his career.
I still go with '88 and '89 as Luger's highwater marks. True, he was facing Flair, Windham and Steamboat, who, along with Hennig and DiBiase composed the top 5 workers in the US at the time.
As for working a shocking turn perfectly, I'd always go with the Windham turn on Luger. Completely shocking, but extremely effective.
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