with the departure of Jeff Hardy, who, if anyone, do you think will take the extreme matches on a regluar basis? i miss the ladder matches the Hardyz used to have. TLC's too. but with the roster split, then the Hardyz split, the the firing of Lita and Jeff, i think they need a replacement. am i the only person who misses these matches? i mean, personally, i thought the Jeff Taker ladder match was one of the best matches i've ever seen. the ending especially.
they need to rekindle the X-treme side of wrestling, instead of having "debates" on current topics. bring back the ladders!!
Twist of Fate...
Twist of Fate to Swanton Bomb. never to be seen again with the departure of Jeff Hardy. :(
I don't think you're going to get a lot of people here to agree that more extreme wrestling is what the fed needs. Injuries are one of the biggest problem facing the WWE, and yet they still continue to put on ladder matches and Hell in a Cell. These things have become so prevalent that we are desensitized to the cool high spots when he see them.
I'm not saying anything new here. Save the gimmick matches so that they can mean something (like they once did).
(By the way, Lita's not really fired- only storyline fired... she'll be back on one of the rosters pretty soon, I think.)
There are still plenty of spotfest wrestlers anyhow. RVD on RAW is a one-man-show of highspots, and Christian can do them too, although he doesn't need to. On Smackdown, you have the whole cruiser division, and I hear that Tenacious Z (the one-legged guy) is spot-tastic.
I don't have the heart for stunt matches anymore after the terror of watching Foley, Hardy, Shane ... heck, Rikishi's plummet into hay scared me. My attention drifts from sitting on my couch and cheering the match to standing and screaming at my TV "don't try it, you %!@%$ moron!"
After Vic Grimes and Owen's accidents, it's just not worth it for me.
Originally posted by The ShamI don't think you're going to get a lot of people here to agree that more extreme wrestling is what the fed needs. Injuries are one of the biggest problem facing the WWE, and yet they still continue to put on ladder matches and Hell in a Cell. These things have become so prevalent that we are desensitized to the cool high spots when he see them.
Well, if you want to nitpick, let's look at a list of injuries and the types of matches the workers were involved in:
Angle - Neck - Worked several normal matches with Benoit (good thing those german suplexes we all like to see are so healthy.)
Brock - Ribs - Mistake from Big Show in normal match, almost broke his neck at WrestleMania in a normal match.
Benoit - Neck - May have been linked to extreme matches, blown spot.
Rhyno - Neck - No ladder nor HIAC matches in WWE
Edge - Neck - Injury may be linked to extreme matches, blown spot.
Austin - Neck - normal match with Owen Hart
Owen Hart - Deceased - Flashy entrance (Which had been previously successful countless times by Shawn Micheals and Sting)
Triple H - Quad Tear - Tag match
Kevin Nash - Quad Tear - Tag match
Chavo Guerrero - Biceps Tear - Normal Match
Well, by that tally, I wholeheartedly agree. Gimmick matches are expediently debilitating the WWE roster. (slight degree of sarcasm.)
Granted, the propensity of serious injury skyrockets in Ladder, Cage, etc. matches. However, I have trepidations as to the fact that Vince McMahon tells guys they have to do this. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if almost everybody in the WWE would jump at the chance to work a match like this due to it's high profile status, IMO.
The type of match isn't the issue, it's the type of spot. Both of Brock's injuries were caused by unusually dangerous spots. The SSP, and his ribs were the result of Big Show throwing him off the stage, not a "regular match." As for Rhyno, well running head first into almost anything makes for entertaining tv, but we all knew where he was headed from day one.
Originally posted by Tenken347The type of match isn't the issue, it's the type of spot. Both of Brock's injuries were caused by unusually dangerous spots. The SSP, and his ribs were the result of Big Show throwing him off the stage, not a "regular match." As for Rhyno, well running head first into almost anything makes for entertaining tv, but we all knew where he was headed from day one.
Lesnar was originally injured in an accident at a house show.
As for Rhyno, if the problem was with the gore per se, then I doubt he would be cleared to be using it since his return. He himself said that the injury stemmed from a couple of incidents where people who weren't used to working with him (Justin Credible and Kurt Angle) failed to 'take' the gore correctly. Such a problem could just as easily arise from the aforementioned german suplexes, as almost witnessed in an Angle/Edge match from a year or so back.
Either way, the majority of major injuries, as pointed out by Lexus, seem to have occured in regular matches in regular spots. You could add to his list the injuries of Bubba, Batista, and Orton in ONE normal tag match at a house show.
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
I wasn't saying that the injury bug was directly related to the gimmick matches, but that it seemed like a stupid idea to put wrestlers at unnecessary risk when so many top stars are injured. Tenken347 is right, too. It's not just the match, but the spot that counts. A Hell in a Cell isn't dangerous because of the cell, but because people jump and fall off the cell, toss refs from the ring into the cage onto the floor (seen Tim White lately?) and utilize the "normal" arsenal of tables, ladders, chairs, tacks and flaming 2x4s covered in barbed wire.
Pile Drivers are rare nowadays, thanks to Owen/Austin. When someone pulls out a piledriver, I mark out like crazy because I never get to see it. If The Dudleys didn't whip out wood in every match, I might mark out for that, too.
The coyote goes...
For starters, the ratio of piledrivers to HIAC matches this year: 1/0. By years end, 1/1 for certain, 2/1 or 1/2 at most.
Second, this all stems down to bumping. Granted, you can put on a stellar match with as little risk as possible. See: Rock/Austin. However, even without piledrivers, tables, chairs, or a cage to be flung around in, lets look at what happens to somebody's body in a no frills contest:
Idealy; Both bodies fall flat on the ground, the one higher in the air taking impact of a 6' drop.
Botched; Ranging from sprained ankle to death, with a probability of hip damage.
Idealy; One body strains while the other body jumps, and is put on the mat with impact of a 3' drop.
Botched; Ranging from sprained ankle to death, with a probability of a dislocated shoulder due to off key landing.
Idealy; Stiff looking shot from one man connects with some impact.
Botched; Broken part of face (nose, jaw, collapsed eye socket).
Idealy; One man guides another into uncomfortable steel cables, who comes back for another spot.
Botched; Ranging from sprained ankle to death, with a probability of either pissing blood for a week because you hit the ropes weird or the ropes snapping and you taking a nasty spill.
Four basic moves, and I'm supposed to believe these are any safer than a table spot? I mean, to truly minimize the risk, these guys would be playing Rockem Sockem Robots while talking trash about it.
I think spot-machines are being discouraged more and more by Vince. Anytime anyone comes with a different style that can be perceived as slightly different and maybe more dangerous (i.e Sean O'Haire), they're immediately neutered and forced to wrestle "WWE style", supposedly to prevent injuries.
Of course, the irony is that wrestling "WWE style" does NOT prevent injuries, as has been seen by the recent surgeries that have been going around.
When the BROOKLYN BRAWLER and TAZZ both need neck surgery, you KNOW something's seriously wrong!
Ok, so maybe all the other guys haven't worked, but will THIS be the man to save WWE???
Yeah I saw a clip of that Vic Grimes' accident online. SICK SICK stuff. Anyone know what happened to Grimes resulting from the stunt? Was he seriously injured?
And I don't get the obsession with Jeff. He's overrated. There are far superior spot-fest wrestlers all around the globe, and whom mix up the spotting with quality wrestling and psychology. Watch some lucha, puro or Indie stuff, dude. Jeff ain't the first to do this kind of stuff.
Jeff Hardy makes me depressed b/c he was a kid who had it all going for him and basically threw it all away. I remember watching his set of matches with Edge and Christian thinking "if anyone here is going to be a breakout star, it's Jeff". Now, after all three have gone on to bigger and better things, we see where Jeff is...
Originally posted by rv581I'm not so sure the "extreme" wrestlers are getting injured any more then the kingsized wrestlers (HHH, Nash, Batista).
I don't think they are per se, but the "extreme" wresatlers have a higher likelihood of having a serious(read life-altering) injury that "kingsized." If HHH, Nash, or Batista tear a quad moving their leg, they will be in pain, but it will not adversely affect the rest of their lives(within reason of course). If Jeff Hardy lands wrong doing a swanton off a ladder, he could easily become a quadrapalegic.
These Democrats up in Texas — they may not be patriots, but they did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.-Rep. Tom DeLay on the "fugitive" Texas Democrats
IN-DEPTH UPDATE ON STEVE AUSTIN STORY; AUSTIN HAS NOT BEEN ARRESTED by Mike Johnson @ 10:15:00 PM on 3/26/2004 In update from an earlier story posted here on PWInsider.com, Steve Austin has not been arrested.