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The W - Random - BFI Film List -- Kane wins again
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The Psycho Pirate
Chorizo








Since: 31.3.02
From: Earth-Three

Since last post: 4385 days
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#1 Posted on
LONDON (AP) - International film critics and directors named "Citizen Kane" the best movie ever in surveys published by the British Film Institute on Friday.

The institute seeks the opinion of more than 250 of the world's leading critics and directors every 10 years before compiling separate top 10 lists for its Sight & Sound Magazine.

While the two groups agreed on the No. 1 spot for the 1941 film directed by and starring Orson Welles, they had differing opinions on which films should round out the top 10.

The critics kept Alfred Hitchcock's "Vertigo" in second place - with six more votes it would have been No. 1 - but the directors put Francis Ford Coppola's "The Godfather" and "The Godfather Part II" as joint No. 2.


More than 700 films were nominated by directors including Quentin Tarantino, Bernardo Bertolucci, Tim Robbins, Sam Mendes and Cameron Crow. Critics polled included Britain's Jonathan Ross and America's Roger Ebert and David Denby.

The critics' poll was first taken in 1952 and gathers opinions from as far afield as Bangladesh, Cuba and Estonia. The institute added the directors' poll in 1992.

"The critics' poll is a touchstone for worldwide film opinion. For the last 40 years 'Citizen Kane' has topped the Critics' Poll confirming Orson Welles, the director, as the Shakespeare of modern cinema," said Nick James, the editor of Sight & Sound.

"Pushing all the resources of a Hollywood studio to its limits, the film is a dazzling formal experiment and compelling portrait of a great man's life."

Films appearing in both the directors' and critics' top tens included Jean Renoir's "La Regle du jeu" Federico Fellini's "8-."

The most recently made film to reach the directors' top 10 was Martin Scorsese's "Raging Bull," released in 1980. The classic musical "Singin' in the Rain" made 10th place on the critics' list.

---

CRITICS' TOP TEN FILMS

1. "Citizen Kane" (Welles) 1941

2. "Vertigo" (Hitchcock) 1958

3. "La Regle du Jeu" (Renoir) 1939

4. "The Godfather" and "The Godfather Part II" (Coppola) 1972, 1974

5. "Tokyo Story" (Ozu) 1953

6. "2001: A Space Odyssey" (Kubrick) 1968

7. "Sunrise" (Murnau) 1927

8. "Battleship Potemkin" (Eisenstein) 1925

9. "8-" (Fellini) 1963

10. "Singin' in the Rain" (Kelly, Donen) 1951

---

DIRECTORS' TOP TEN FILMS

1. "Citizen Kane" (Welles) 1941

2. "The Godfather" and "The Godfather Part II" (Coppola) 1972, 1974

3. "8-" (Fellini) 1963

4. "Lawrence of Arabia" (Lean) 1962

5. "Dr. Strangelove" (Kubrick) 1963

6. "Bicycle Thieves" (De Sica) 1948

7. "Raging Bull" (Scorsese) 1980

8. "Vertigo (Hitchcock)" 1958

9. (tie) "Rashomon" (Kurosawa) 1950; "La Regle du jeu" (Renoir) 1939; "Seven Samurai" (Kurosawa) 1954

---





You're all so WONDERFUL. Why did they ever have to remove you from the continuity? You'd have made for MARVELOUS stories. You WILL make marvelous stories. And the FIRST story of the new world will be a story of REVENGE! -- The Psycho Pirate, Animal Man 23, May 1990.
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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09
Dr. Strangelove might possibly be the greatest(I haven't seen Citizen Kane yet). There is so much backstory, so much going on, so much satire that it makes it a must see, even today. One of my profs in a foreign policy class has made this a mandatory part of his curriculum.
Scott Summets
Sujuk








Since: 27.6.02

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#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis
    Dr. Strangelove might possibly be the greatest(I haven't seen Citizen Kane yet). There is so much backstory, so much going on, so much satire that it makes it a must see, even today. One of my profs in a foreign policy class has made this a mandatory part of his curriculum.


I took a game theory/strategic thinking course where it was required viewing as well. Damn good movie.



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Parts Unknown
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

Since last post: 26 days
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#4 Posted on
Man, I feel so alone in this opinion, but here goes...

Am I the only American who doesn't enjoy Citizen Kane or Dr. Strangelove? I took a film class last semester and of course, both were required viewing. I understand the unique camera angles, the great acting and the groundbreaking cinematography, but both of these films utterly failed to capture my interest. I was bored to death.
Dr. Strangelove had its moments, and I know it's great satire and all that, but I was unimpressed with it as well. I just can never figure out why these two are consistently considered to be works of genius.
Don't get me wrong - I don't like stupid action films either. I like a little more depth than Armageddon and xXx. But still...why can't there be a list that contains movies with a bit more pop sensibility?
I guess I'm one of those people who like something in the middle.
I feel the same way about music: I hate bubble gum boy bands, but shy from the ultra avant garde. I would rather listen to Urban Hymns than Kid A, I guess you could say.
I guess my taste in films is a bit lacking.
Let the flames begin.



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The Psycho Pirate
Chorizo








Since: 31.3.02
From: Earth-Three

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#5 Posted on

    Originally posted by Parts Unknown
    Man, I feel so alone in this opinion, but here goes...

    Am I the only American who doesn't enjoy Citizen Kane or Dr. Strangelove?



No, there are plenty of you. Unfortunately.



You're all so WONDERFUL. Why did they ever have to remove you from the continuity? You'd have made for MARVELOUS stories. You WILL make marvelous stories. And the FIRST story of the new world will be a story of REVENGE! -- The Psycho Pirate, Animal Man 23, May 1990.
Socks
Landjager








Since: 25.6.02
From: Ottawa

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.21
I would replace Raging bull with SlapShot any day!



I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and I sleep all day!

drjayphd
Scrapple
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Since: 22.4.02
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#7 Posted on
Well, I'm not going to argue with that. Welles did some stuff with that movie (shot length/depth, editing, camera work, etc.) that still looks original today, and I'm surprised I don't see more elements of movies that are that creative.

Speaking of which, remember the backstage scene near the beginning of last week's SD? First thing that came to mind was "SOMEbody's been watching 'Touch of Evil'..." I loved that... it was a great way to tie together a bunch of backstage segments in a totally logical way.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1488 days
Last activity: 396 days
#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by Parts Unknown
    Man, I feel so alone in this opinion, but here goes...

    Am I the only American who doesn't enjoy Citizen Kane or Dr. Strangelove? I took a film class last semester and of course, both were required viewing. I understand the unique camera angles, the great acting and the groundbreaking cinematography, but both of these films utterly failed to capture my interest. I was bored to death.
    Dr. Strangelove had its moments, and I know it's great satire and all that, but I was unimpressed with it as well. I just can never figure out why these two are consistently considered to be works of genius.
    Don't get me wrong - I don't like stupid action films either. I like a little more depth than Armageddon and xXx. But still...why can't there be a list that contains movies with a bit more pop sensibility?
    I guess I'm one of those people who like something in the middle.
    I feel the same way about music: I hate bubble gum boy bands, but shy from the ultra avant garde. I would rather listen to Urban Hymns than Kid A, I guess you could say.
    I guess my taste in films is a bit lacking.
    Let the flames begin.



Agreed. I try not to get suckered in by what critics think is great. But sometimes I remind myself of a spoof on Rex Reed on Saturday Night Live (I think):

"I didn't understand a minute of it, but I guess I loved it!"



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex

"Was he no-selling?" - Me
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 35 min.
#9 Posted on
I can't believe that Vertigo is so highly acclaimed; I can think of at least three Hitchcock movies that were better. Rear Window is one of the best films ever made.



I was born in a manger, like that other guy. You know, he wore a hat?
Busyman14
Cotechino








Since: 24.2.02
From: Weston, Florida

Since last post: 4481 days
Last activity: 4466 days
#10 Posted on
<
1. "Citizen Kane" (Welles) 1941>>

Watched the first half late one night on TCM before I succumbed to sleep. Was an excellent movie from what I've seen, and one of these days I will watch the whole thing.


<<4. "The Godfather" and "The Godfather Part II" (Coppola) 1972, 1974>>

Why pair them together? That's just stupid IMO. My personal list, "Godfather Part II" is #1 with "The Godfather" a close second

<6. "2001: A Space Odyssey" (Kubrick) 1968>>

Overrated tripe that puts me into a coma every time I try to watch it.



<


5. "Dr. Strangelove" (Kubrick) 1963>>

"Dr. Strangelove" was hilarious, if only for Peter Sellers at the end screaming "Mien Feuher I can walk!"

<<6. "Bicycle Thieves" (De Sica) 1948

7. "Raging Bull" (Scorsese) 1980>>

Great movie, but is it really deserving of being in a top 10? I would probably put this in a top 20, maybe top 15, but not top 10.

I notice, as in the case of all these top lists, that comedy's (always with the exception of "Dr. Strangelove") are ignored in favor of drama, which I find stupid, since I find it a lot harder to make a good comedy then a good drama that people will like IMO.

-Alex
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

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#11 Posted on
And here I am enjoying A Clockwork Orange more then both Kubrick films that made the list Dr. Strangelove and especially 2001: A Space Odyssey

Funny how Raging Bull made the list but didn't even win the Oscar (losing out to Ordinary People..errr)... If I was going to put a movie from the last 22 years I'd put down Shawshank Redemption what an memorable movie. And yes like all my favourite movies it lost the oscars (to forest gump).





I don't get it, everyone loves rats, but they don't want to drink the rats milk?
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09
Clockwork Orange should have been up there. An outstanding film that still has relevance today. The only thing wrong with it(and you can't really fault Kubrick for it) was that the movie ended after chapter 20 of the book. The 21st chapter really wouldn't have added too much to the movie(hell, they may have won out ending after 20) but it still probably should've been there.
Slestak
Salami








Since: 2.1.02
From: Oklahoma City

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#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis
    Clockwork Orange should have been up there. An outstanding film that still has relevance today. The only thing wrong with it(and you can't really fault Kubrick for it) was that the movie ended after chapter 20 of the book. The 21st chapter really wouldn't have added too much to the movie(hell, they may have won out ending after 20) but it still probably should've been there.
IIRC, when the book was originally published, the 21st chapter was omitted. I remember reading that in a forward Burgess wrote for a later edition.



Eatin' fruit and bein' cool
drjayphd
Scrapple
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Since: 22.4.02
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#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by Slestak

      Originally posted by Grimis
      Clockwork Orange should have been up there. An outstanding film that still has relevance today. The only thing wrong with it(and you can't really fault Kubrick for it) was that the movie ended after chapter 20 of the book. The 21st chapter really wouldn't have added too much to the movie(hell, they may have won out ending after 20) but it still probably should've been there.
    IIRC, when the book was originally published, the 21st chapter was omitted. I remember reading that in a forward Burgess wrote for a later edition.



Yeah, they didn't publish an edition of the book with the 21st chapter until the 80's. But I think the movie really benefitted by not having the 21st chapter in there. That chapter just seemed like it was tacked on.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 35 min.
#15 Posted on

    Clockwork Orange should have been up there. An outstanding film that still has relevance today. The only thing wrong with it(and you can't really fault Kubrick for it) was that the movie ended after chapter 20 of the book. The 21st chapter really wouldn't have added too much to the movie(hell, they may have won out ending after 20) but it still probably should've been there.



    IIRC, when the book was originally published, the 21st chapter was omitted. I remember reading that in a forward Burgess wrote for a later edition.



    Yeah, they didn't publish an edition of the book with the 21st chapter until the 80's. But I think the movie really benefitted by not having the 21st chapter in there. That chapter just seemed like it was tacked on.




But it changes the entire focus of the story. If it's just 20 chapters, the moral of the story is that you can't change people (in Alex's case, he'll always be evil). Chapter 21 makes the moral of the story that people can change and mature. Burgess originally said, in fact, that the book was meant to be 21 chapters since 21 was the age when people enter into adulthood.

BTW, I hated the movie. One of Kubrick's missteps.

(edited by Big Bad on 13.8.02 0128)


I was born in a manger, like that other guy. You know, he wore a hat?
chazerizer
Italian








Since: 11.7.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#16 Posted on
I must say that this list is complete crap because it doesn't have all my favorite movies on it.

Sorry, had to get the asshole out.

OK, I'm back - really its a good list, some things I would change, but...

I'd like to see Kurosawa and Battleship Potemkin higher. 2001 doesn't even belong on this list.

Plus they left out one of the best actors of all time...




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