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25.10.14 1758
The W - Pro Wrestling - Benoit/Angle-Edge/Mysterio (Page 2)
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skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

Since last post: 2411 days
Last activity: 2411 days
#21 Posted on
My question is how so many people could vote for the Smackdown tournament final at No Mercy for match of the year. As great a match as it was, these are four singles wrestlers. I don't think they are long-term tag teams. I don't think Benoit/Angle will keep the belt for more than a month. Shouldn't a match of the year have some significance to it? Even though HBK/Triple H and Hogan/Rock were non-title matches, they seemed to have more of an impact.
JTR23
Weisswurst








Since: 11.6.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 4196 days
Last activity: 3702 days
AIM:  
#22 Posted on
I haven't seen it mentioned, but I thought the ladder match between RVD and Eddie Guerrero on Raw earlier this year was mildly amusing.



oh come on now boy think / what would jesus do / he'd shake his head like a angry mother spoke the boy / he say do what i could do / you take care of it please / but it's the only one you got / and it'd take ten lifetimes boy / to undo what i've done

DrOp
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 2237 days
Last activity: 1104 days
#23 Posted on

    Originally posted by skorpio17
    My question is how so many people could vote for the Smackdown tournament final at No Mercy for match of the year. As great a match as it was, these are four singles wrestlers. I don't think they are long-term tag teams. I don't think Benoit/Angle will keep the belt for more than a month. Shouldn't a match of the year have some significance to it? Even though HBK/Triple H and Hogan/Rock were non-title matches, they seemed to have more of an impact.


I think this match was perhaps one of the best tag matches I've seen. Certainly the best since HHH-Austin/Benoit-Jericho and certainly as good as some classic Rock and Roll EX-Midnight EX/Horseman stuff from the 80s.

As far as impact goes--if Benoit and Angle go on to be tag champs that hate each other and eventually feud their way back into Main Events, then I would say that it had tons of impact--besides just being a great match. I think its too early to say if it will have lasting impact or not.




...And Marking Out
Slashwrestling.com
Scott Summets
Sujuk








Since: 27.6.02

Since last post: 3908 days
Last activity: 3876 days
#24 Posted on
    Originally posted by JMShapiro
    Hogan/Rock was an awesome spectacle but the work doesn't hold up at all. It was smartly worked but not brilliantly worked. Rock/Jericho from the Rumble was really good but not on the level of the No Mercy 01 match and had some lame extracurricular activities (lamer than Steph). I think the tag match tonight was for sure the MOTY ahead of Michaels/Hunter and then Benoit/Angle from Unforgiven. The Hell in a Cell was awesome, like ****, and Scott Keith is a troll.


I was live at Rumble, and thought the Jericho match was great, and in my top ten list of the year, but there wasn't that much extracurricular crap going on. Christian and Storm ran in to stop the Sharpshooter, and Nick Patrick refused to count a Rocky pin.

(edited by Scott Summets on 21.10.02 1112)


Midterms suck....
GO BRAVES!
vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 3036 days
Last activity: 249 days
#25 Posted on
The belts they fought over (in and of themselves) are meaningless. Inventing belts out of thin air (whether it's these or HHH's Ten Pounds of Gold) does not impress me, even if it set up the tournament that set up this match.

Hogan/Rock was significant for its historic implications, but the wrestling match itself was nothing special. The crowd's reaction to Hogan and Rock's spontaneous heel turn in response were the interesting parts; the match itself was an afterthought.

HBK/HHH had lasting "significance" only to, well, HBK and HHH and their fans. The whole Shawn storyline revolved around those two individuals; they had an issue, they took out their frustrations in a solid spotfest, HHH got his heat back via whacking Shawn with Mjolnir, and Shawn poofed back to Retirementland with minimal subsequent fanfare. Meanwhile, the rest of the federation went on with their lives. Was it a fun, nasty match? Sure. But Shane McMahon can jump off ladders and take hammer shots, too.

Benoit-Angle/Rey-Edge didn't have Big Emotional Betrayal Issues, though it's not as if the foursome didn't have their own set of issues and backstory. But this match had it all -- mat wrestling, aerobatics, tag-team psychology, innovative double-team spots, a little comedy before the pace stepped up, multiple false finishes that the crowd bought into, counters to counters to counters, a frantic last five minutes, and a clean ending. What more could you want? (Other than the reintroduction of the Bronco Buster to the WWE, that is.)




"No society has managed to invest more time and energy in the perpetuation of the fiction that it is _moral, sane and wholesome_ than our current crop of _Modern Americans_."
-- Frank Zappa
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3559 days
Last activity: 3559 days
#26 Posted on
Hmmm, I know this would happen. The only PPV I don't get all year and it has a match of the year candidate on it.

Damn it!

Anyway, anyone else find it odd that once the RSPW awards are going to be handed out, the wrestling starts to get better. Its almost like when the studios start putting out good films around the oscars are going to be nominated. Weird.


I'd have to say that I can't put this in my MOTY selection until I see all of it, but if you didn't like Rock/Hogan or HBK/HHH or Edge/Eddie's ladder match or even TLC minus HHH's speech at the end, then perhaps you should move on. For me, I have five candidates for match of the year and if I remember correctly, RSPW stops prior to No Mercy since I couldn't vote for Rock/Jericho has last year's match, then I would suggest you hold on to those votes for the tag match for next year. Unless, there is and end of the year vote that I don't know about, then go ahead and vote for it.

My choices for matches this year.

1. HHH/HBK at SummerSlam
2. Rock/Hogan at Wrestlemania
3. Jericho/Rock at No Mercy
4. TLC 4 on Raw
5. Angle/Benoit at Unforgiven
6. Edge/Eddie on Smackdown (Ladder)
7. Rock/Angle/Taker at Vengance
8. RVD/Eddie Raw (Ladder)
9. RVD/Brock Vengance
10. Survivor Series' WWF vs. The Alliance

A Fan- Begin the cruxification
Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
The HBK match wins because nobody thought that Shawn could come back from years of inactivity and injury and put on a five star match with a wrestler (HHH) who everybody will admit has not been as good as before his quad injury.

Furthermore, the fact that it was HBK's return after years makes it a more significant match in the long run than a match for tag titles they just created this month. Now if HBK comes back for more than one more match (at WM 19), then this HBK/HHH match will lose some significance. As it stands right now though, HBK's match will resonate with me more.

Another reason is that you expect good matches from the four guys in the tag match. Of course, that shouldn't take away from this individual match, but for me it does because these four guys can have great matches in their sleep. More credit for this match has to go to which agent booked the spots and the story involved, because it did have great false finishes and psychology.

Both matches ruled, and I'm just thankful that I got to see both contests.



"Oh would you stop being all stealthy and just get in the truck"- Tom Servo
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1989 days
Last activity: 1923 days
#28 Posted on
"The belts they fought over (in and of themselves) are meaningless. Inventing belts out of thin air (whether it's these or HHH's Ten Pounds of Gold) does not impress me, even if it set up the tournament that set up this match."

See, this logic bothers me. All titles have to be created at some point. HHH's world belt was pretty lame, but they've since gone on to legitimise it. And the SD tag titles have been introduced in the best possible way-via a super-hot tournament with an awesome final match. To quote Dr. Marvin Munroe, What the Hell is wrong with that?






Apparently, I Am


The Result Of This Survey Was Really, Really Disturbing To Me

vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 3036 days
Last activity: 249 days
#29 Posted on

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    "The belts they fought over (in and of themselves) are meaningless. Inventing belts out of thin air (whether it's these or HHH's Ten Pounds of Gold) does not impress me, even if it set up the tournament that set up this match."

    See, this logic bothers me. All titles have to be created at some point. HHH's world belt was pretty lame, but they've since gone on to legitimise it. And the SD tag titles have been introduced in the best possible way-via a super-hot tournament with an awesome final match. To quote Dr. Marvin Munroe, What the Hell is wrong with that?




The "don't fix what isn't broken" axiom is ringing in my head.

Before the recent twiddle-with-the-belts fetish, they had:
WWF (Unified) World
WWF IC
WWF Tag
WWF Euro
WWF Hardcore
WWF LHW
WWF Women's

meaning that seven men and one woman could hold belts at any one time.

Now, they have:
WWE (Smackdown) World
WWE (Raw) HHH's Vanity Belt
WWE (Smackdown) Tag
WWE (Raw) Tag
WWE LHW
WWE Women's

meaning that seven men and one woman can hold belts at any one time.

That's a long way to go to end up right where they started from...

...except now singles wrestlers who aren't main-eventers have no belts to hold or shoot for. Good job, that. A few months ago, the tag belts were a joke, because there were barely any teams left to compete for them; now the Random Tag-Team Generator may blow fuses trying to keep up with the demand.

...except that the "unified" heavyweight title, which they made a big deal about unifying not too long ago, is now split in half again.

...except that now, with equivalent belts on both sides, there's no reason for anyone on Raw to wrestle anyone on Smackdown, even on PPV. (The Women's and Cruiserweight belts are exceptions, but I doubt that anyone expects the WWE to take either of those seriously in the long run.)

They created new tag belts, when they had perfectly good tag belts (which could be defended across shows on PPV) already in existence. They created a new world title belt, when they had both the "real" world title belt and a perfectly good IC belt (which, again, could pass between shows on PPV) already in existence. They made a big deal about how the separate brands were in competition -- and now, not only have they not provided any criteria by which to judge that competition, but they've eliminated the pretexts for the brands' wrestlers to compete with one another.

Thus, I am confused.



"No society has managed to invest more time and energy in the perpetuation of the fiction that it is _moral, sane and wholesome_ than our current crop of _Modern Americans_."
-- Frank Zappa
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1989 days
Last activity: 1923 days
#30 Posted on
Your reasoning is flawed. They are heading in a totally different direction as to what you want them to do, as in they're actually, y'know, making a go of this split and trying to make the shows into separate identities. You seem to think that the whole basis of the split is so they can milk interpromotional matches every month. It should be plainly obvious to all that this is not what they want to do. Add to that the fact that the midcard titles were pretty much meaningless (with the possible exception of the IC belt) and there really is no problem.




Apparently, I Am


The Result Of This Survey Was Really, Really Disturbing To Me

Feely
Merguez








Since: 6.10.02
From: Long Island, NY

Since last post: 259 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#31 Posted on
I still don't think HBK/HHH is MOTY over the tag match. The Shawn match was great in a markout sense because he was able to do so much under the circumstances, but the tag match was this perfect mix of...everything. And it didn't end on a rollup.



-Feely
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#32 Posted on
"I remember correctly, RSPW stops prior to No Mercy since I couldn't vote for Rock/Jericho has last year's match"

No, it ends after No Mercy, the Rock/Jericho match you couldn't vote for was the Vengeance one.

"9. RVD/Brock Vengance"

Dubious.

"10. Survivor Series' WWF vs. The Alliance"

Oh yeah, that counts too. That was a hell of a match.

"Shouldn't a match of the year have some significance to it?"

No, it should be the best match of the year.

"thought the Jericho match was great,"

It was great.

"Christian and Storm ran in to stop the Sharpshooter, and Nick Patrick refused to count a Rocky pin."

That was all gratuitous and gay.
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 201 days
Last activity: 2 days
#33 Posted on
Face it, Vsp. The WWE doesn't want you watching RAW. So they gave you some tag titles to watch on their good show, so everyone can ignore RAW. Sucks to be a non-cruiserweight midcarder on Smackdown! but hey, most of them aren't cool anyway.

-Jag



With poison running through your veins, and death marching solemnly towards you, heroic acts become more of a necessity as you see your time dwindling.

Vanquishing your enemies, making amends to those you have wronged, and leaving words of love and kindness for those around you become second nature as your own mortality looms

However, true strength lies not in these last desperate acts, but in the actions of one who has to get out of bed the next day and face the consequences of doing that which you believe is right.
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my rankings: 1. Molly--has overall best talent, has both great ground (rolling figure four) and air finishers (450 degree Molly press). Wholesome face with new self-righteous attitude.
- deadbeater, Rank the Women (2002)
Related threads: No Mercy PPV Predictions - Vegas Odds Game (No Mercy) - Predictions for a PPV Few Will Be Watching - More...
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