The W
Views: 95759078
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
23.4.14 1108
The W - Pro Wrestling - Being crowned Raw champ w/o a match.. (Page 2)
This thread has 7 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: Prev 1 2(11521 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (39 total)
coalminer's glove
Loukanika








Since: 23.5.02
From: New Orleans

Since last post: 4213 days
Last activity: 4165 days
#21 Posted on
Didn't WCW actually make a new world title a long time ago and relegated the "big gold belt" to the #2 title? I think this happened for a few months a long time ago, but I was too young back then to remember it for sure.



There is still "Panda-moan-ium" in the WWF.
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 268 days
Last activity: 229 days
#22 Posted on

    Originally posted by coalminer's glove
    Didn't WCW actually make a new world title a long time ago and relegated the "big gold belt" to the #2 title? I think this happened for a few months a long time ago, but I was too young back then to remember it for sure.

The only thing to me that sounds similar to what you are talking about is what happened at Bash at the Beach on July 9, 2000. To quote from The Great Hijo's Title Histories (http://www.puroresu.com/titles/wcw/wcw-h.html), here is what happened.

On 00/07/09 in Daytona Beach, FL, Jarrett [the current champion] intentionally lays down in the ring while Hulk Hogan covered him for the pin; matchmaker Vince Russo comes back out and explains to the crowd that he has been dealing with Hogan's politics all day and gives Hogan "his" WCW World title belt as the Hulk Hogan Memorial Belt because it doesn't mean squat anymore; Russo claims Jarrett is still the WCW Champion but with a new belt and will defend his title against Booker T, a man who has been "held back by Hogan for 14 years".

Booker won that match to get his first WCW Championship. You can also read Chris Jones' review of the event here at the slash http://slashwrestling.com/info/cjbatb2.html



NickBockwinkelFan
Frankfurter








Since: 10.4.02
From: New York City, NY

Since last post: 739 days
Last activity: 44 days
#23 Posted on
I think they wanted to have someone with the new title immediately to build towards the next PPV. While I'm not crazy about just handing over the belt, it solidifies the "HHH vs the World" heel persona I think they're going for by creating heat with not only the entire locker room (Bubba should have slapped the taste out of his mouth) but the anti-HHH fan base as well.

They should've at least had a Royal Rumble/Battle Royal-type match for the title at least.

Also:

    Originally posted by dMp


    - Ric Flair--> 16 time..but people said recently he shouldn't even be in the ring anymore. Lost most of his skills and looks old when he doesn't make the Flip. Giving him the title would be as much nostalgia as when they gave it to Hogan.




As much as everyone wants to continually delude themselves, other than the Rock, Hogan was the most over guy in the company. WM 18 suprised everyone, including Hogan. It was only good business to try and capitalize on the surge of popularity. They spent weeks building him up as a hated opponent for the Rock including the semi truck into the ambulance and Hogan's classic "I've Seen them Come and Seen Them Go--Flavor of the Week" promo. Hogan delivered. I loved the match. Sure it was no technical masterpiece, but it had something that everyone here says rarely exists anymoe: Ring Psychology. I love Flair, but I don't think he could pin HHH. That night, I believed Hogan was going over. All I'm saying is Hogan/Flair is not a good comparison.

(edited by NickBockwinkelFan on 4.9.02 1642)


From the Desk of Head Booker Stephanie McMahon
Attn: Paul Heyman
re: Dialouge memo for Smackdown 8/29/02
Cole: "Brock Lesnar, exclusive to Smackdown thanks to a coup Monday night by Stephanie McMahon."
Tazz: "Stephanie rocks man!"

"Well, you can't involve friendship with business. It has to be one or the other. It's either business or friendship, or hit the bricks!"
--Life Lessons from "The Tao of Bobby the Brain Heenan" Uncensored 2000 preview


ripblazer
Pickled pork








Since: 16.1.02
From: Calgary Alberta Canada

Since last post: 3283 days
Last activity: 3115 days
#24 Posted on
One thing they didn't develop on Raw was outrage by the wrestlers or announcers that Bischoff fell asleep at the switch and lost out on Lesnar. Obviously he could have had a shot at Lensar exclusively. They should be asking "How could he let himself be outbid?"

(edited by ripblazer on 4.9.02 1441)
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#25 Posted on
You know, that's an awesome point, ripblazer. I wonder if they'll start working stuff like that into things. I think it'd be kinda cool if they pull a salary-cap-ish angle, where Bischoff says that the money's not endless and if Wrestler X wants Wrestler Y on Raw so badly, maybe he should sacrifice some of his own salary to lure him there. Kind of like football teams asking players to rework their contracts to get a star under the salary cap.

I can see that working out almost like the Rougeau-Hart Foundation angle did years and years ago, where Jimmy Hart managed the Rougeaus and yet still owned part of the Hart Foundation, so in a match with Hart/Neidhart versus the Rougeaus, even when the Rougeaus lost they still got part of the winners' purse. lol.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 3 days
#26 Posted on
I don't have a problem with either the new belt, nor how they just handed the belt to the top contender. Like others said, this is all a work, so why worry so much about legitimacy? Afterall, the "sport" itself is illegitimate. Would mentioning a fake tournament at Rio De Janeiro really make everyone feel better? I'm not saying they should just ignore storylines, but I think that the fact that the so-called World Champion refuses to work for your "brand" is enough reason to create your own champ. (Jerry Lawler was stripped of the AWA World Title for refusing to work for AWA, though he always claimed to still be AWA Champion, so there is precedent for this kind of thing)

If you are truly going to be two separate brands, you need two separate titles. However, I think they need to go ahead and pull the trigger on a full split, with PPV's being brand exclusive. Otherwise I think one World title will be viewed as more important than the other. Like at the next PPV, there looks to be two World Title matches. Who gets the main event slot? Will that title be viewed as more important?

Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 122 days
Last activity: 93 days
#27 Posted on

    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    Well, there is SOME logic in this. Look at boxing -- a boxer can hold a unified WBA-WBC-BFD belt, but if he refuses to fight the boxer that the WBC tags as the #1 contender, then the WBC can strip him of that portion of the belt. And not only was HHH Bischoff's legit #1 contender, but as Bischoff pointed out he WAS the last holder of the belt. A case could be made that the tournament for the Undisputed Belt that Jericho won didn't involve the belts changing hands, merely one belt being awarded to the winner.

    Of course, one could also state that by beating HHH in the semis, Jericho instead was the last titleholder before he unified the two belts. Could be the basis for complaint, story-wise.

    The only thing in question, in my mind, is Bischoff's authority to split that title off. I mean, why THAT belt instead of the other? But still, it's not as illogical and out of the realm of possibility that some here are making it sound.



Nationally Recognized Heavyweight Championship:

The NWA Board of Governors Recognizes Ron Killings as the NWA Heavyweight Champion of the World. They choose his opponents and schedule his title defenses. If he cannot fulfill those obligations, he is stripped.

WWF Chairman Vince McMahon empowered RAW GM Eric Bischoff and SmackDown! GM Stephanie McMahon each with (assumedly) one half of the power over the Undisputed WWF Championship (which is comprised of the former WWF & WCW/World Championships).

The last WWF Champion [before the unification] was "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. The last World/WCW Champion was Chris Jericho. At Vengeance, the titles were combined into one. Triple H wore the World "belt" (the actual, physical belt) last because the night after he won the Undisputed (two belts) Championship from Jericho at WrestleMania, they gave him the new belt. That's it. He held the physical "belt" for less than 24 hours and all of a sudden he's the Champ? THE HELL?

I like the idea of dual championships, but for God's sake...BUILD THEM UP. Have a one-night-only tournament NEXT WEEK on RAW (ratings spike!) to name the new Champion. Have guys jump from Smackdown to be in the tournament! PUT SOME EFFORT INTO THE BOOKING, dammit!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1132 days
Last activity: 13 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#28 Posted on
I totally agree. Too little effort was put into making the belt important. The WWE acted like it did not have "time" to worry about such mundane details as a high caliber tourney for the title, when that is something people want to SEE! I mean, really, if they did a one-night tourney for the belt, and added all sorts of things like talent jumps and "political" maneuvering by wrestlers to get a spot in this tournament. That would IMMEDIATLY give the belt a real sence of import. Not only is it the top title, but EVERYONE wants it, and are willing to jump through some hoops for a simple shot at it.
I mean imagine the story if Bischoff would have come up to the ring with the case, held up the belt, and declared it to be vacant due to Brock's refusal to wrestle on Raw. Then declaring a VERY entertaining tournament to decide the new champion, which would take place next week. Maybe even hold off the finals until the next PPV. I am sorry, how is this not better than what they are doing now? Just handing it to HHH and having a few wrestlers tell him they want to take it from him does not establish the importance of the belt like a tournament does.
I agree with Freeway- PUT SOME EFFORT INTO IT! This is not a soap Opera, it is a wrestling show. Lets see some WRESTLING!



Craig Reade
"Pool Boy"


Chris Jericho stole my beard. That is right, I had it first.
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Well... of course they weren't going to put any effort into naming the new WCW Champion. Have you guys been watching RAW and SmackDown! since SummerSlam? It's the Triple H and Undertaker love-fest going on, remember? HHH and 'Taker look like gods while everybody else looks like a bitch.

That's why the night after SummerSlam, Trips and 'Taker were given the match for the #1 contendership, which Trips won. That's why on SmackDown, a fresh Undertaker was given a #1 contendership match against two more deserving opponents, Benoit (who'd wrestled earlier in the night to get there) and Angle. Beat both of them, I might add. And that's why Triple H was handed the WCW World Title on RAW. And remember... both Triple H and The Undertaker will now assumedly compete in World Title matches at Unforgiven (albeit for two separate World Titles).

Well...

Brock and Rob had better win at Unforgiven, or there'll be hell to pay.



I can't believe it! I just got pinned by a freaking 12-year-old!--
Kurt Angle talking about Rey Mysterio on WWE SmackDown!, 8/9/02

Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1086 days
Last activity: 883 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by coalminer's glove
    Didn't WCW actually make a new world title a long time ago and relegated the "big gold belt" to the #2 title? I think this happened for a few months a long time ago, but I was too young back then to remember it for sure.


No this is when WCW pulled out of the NWA, then came back into the fold, recognizing the NWA and WCW world heavyweight championships. When WCW pulled out of the NWA(again) current NWA Champ Ric Flair lost to Rick Rude what became recognized as the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship, which was later reunified with the WCW title. Not really second place, but there were two world champs at the time.

Again, thanks to Hisa's.
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2492 days
Last activity: 2491 days
#31 Posted on
I just realized that at the rate this separate champ thing is going, the WWE might face the same confusing situation as the NWA if they're not too careful

Ringmistress



A heel for a heel who loves heels.
Mild Mannered Madman
Toulouse








Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

Since last post: 286 days
Last activity: 4 days
#32 Posted on
Here's an unpopular opinion.

It makes perfect sense for Triple H to be the RAW Champion.

Let's take a look at the RAW roster. Outside of Trips, Flair, and Jericho, there are no bona fide main eventers, face or heel. There are a lot of men on the verge, but not quite there yet. Having a top heel main eventer like Trips, allows them to elevate somebody into being a top babyface by defeating him for the title.

The reason this sounds so strange for the WWE, is because the WWE has always been a babyface company. The babyface is almost always the top guy in the company until last year, with the elongated Austin heel reign. Having a top heel champ, means that whoever beats him becomes a top babyface, which is something the WWE especially needs right now.





We're all mad here... I'm mad... You're mad...
Parts Unknown
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 1 day
#33 Posted on

    Originally posted by Mild Mannered Madman
    Here's an unpopular opinion.

    It makes perfect sense for Triple H to be the RAW Champion.

    Let's take a look at the RAW roster. Outside of Trips, Flair, and Jericho, there are no bona fide main eventers, face or heel. There are a lot of men on the verge, but not quite there yet. Having a top heel main eventer like Trips, allows them to elevate somebody into being a top babyface by defeating him for the title.

    The reason this sounds so strange for the WWE, is because the WWE has always been a babyface company. The babyface is almost always the top guy in the company until last year, with the elongated Austin heel reign. Having a top heel champ, means that whoever beats him becomes a top babyface, which is something the WWE especially needs right now.



I have to disagree with you here. RVD and Booker T both have tremendous crowd heat. When you have big-time heat, it equals drawing ability. People are solidly behind these two guys.
Right now, Brock, HHH and Undertaker are not drawing fans, as evidenced by the ratings, but the fans are basically screaming for RVD and Booker to be elevated.
Right now, with ratings slipping and everything going awry, I think it's a bad move to have a heel champion and it's a bad thing to have a "been there done that" champion. The fans need a Hulkster or Stone Cold kind of figure who is fresh and who they can rally behind. If they would put the damn belt on RVD or Booker, I'll bet things would pick up really quick.

But as ekedolphin asserted, that's not gonna happen. It's the HHH/Undertaker Federation right now, and we all have to suffer through it.



"Oh, i'll never understand this emptiness...but I'll never really try and understand, I guess." - Whiskeytown, Sit and Listen to the Rain
shea
Bockwurst








Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 3817 days
Last activity: 3703 days
#34 Posted on
Well, sure, they COULD have entertained us with a title tournament of some kind --

But then again, having Eric just hand the belt to a smirking HHH would supposedly generate more heel heat for Hunter ...

... and as we all know the program for HHH's character takes precedence over everything and anything else.

Isn't that the way of things?
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 268 days
Last activity: 229 days
#35 Posted on

    Originally posted by Mild Mannered Madman
    Here's an unpopular opinion.

    It makes perfect sense for Triple H to be the RAW Champion.

    Let's take a look at the RAW roster. Outside of Trips, Flair, and Jericho, there are no bona fide main eventers, face or heel. There are a lot of men on the verge, but not quite there yet. Having a top heel main eventer like Trips, allows them to elevate somebody into being a top babyface by defeating him for the title.

    The reason this sounds so strange for the WWE, is because the WWE has always been a babyface company. The babyface is almost always the top guy in the company until last year, with the elongated Austin heel reign. Having a top heel champ, means that whoever beats him becomes a top babyface, which is something the WWE especially needs right now.


I've got to say, I'm tired of reading this argument. You make it sound like the WWE actually lets performers go to whatever show they want. There are no other main event performers on Raw because they were all put on Smackdown instead. So even if you don't blame WWE for giving the title to Triple H, you can sure as hell blame it for moving any viable opponents away.



Mild Mannered Madman
Toulouse








Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

Since last post: 286 days
Last activity: 4 days
#36 Posted on
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo

      Originally posted by Mild Mannered Madman
      Here's an unpopular opinion.

      It makes perfect sense for Triple H to be the RAW Champion.

      Let's take a look at the RAW roster. Outside of Trips, Flair, and Jericho, there are no bona fide main eventers, face or heel. There are a lot of men on the verge, but not quite there yet. Having a top heel main eventer like Trips, allows them to elevate somebody into being a top babyface by defeating him for the title.

      The reason this sounds so strange for the WWE, is because the WWE has always been a babyface company. The babyface is almost always the top guy in the company until last year, with the elongated Austin heel reign. Having a top heel champ, means that whoever beats him becomes a top babyface, which is something the WWE especially needs right now.


    I've got to say, I'm tired of reading this argument. You make it sound like the WWE actually lets performers go to whatever show they want. There are no other main event performers on Raw because they were all put on Smackdown instead. So even if you don't blame WWE for giving the title to Triple H, you can sure as hell blame it for moving any viable opponents away.



I'll admit that I have NO idea what your point is.

Mine is this. The WWE needs new top names. By having a heel champion on Raw, it helps elevate a new top face by being the guy who beats him for the belt. Personally, I'm not a fan of most of the top faces in the company period (Being an Angle/Benoit fan). Their best bets are the following to build:

Rob Van Dam
--While I'm not a fan of his, he does get a good reaction, and provides ratings bumps. People want to see Van Dam. People don't want to see him talk, though. RVD desperately needs a mouthpiece. Perfect role for Shawn Michaels. It advances the HBK-HHH feud, and would give great rub to Van Dam for Michaels to declare him the "New Showstopper"

Chris Jericho
-- Jericho's heel run has gotten stale. There's nothing of the spark that came from his WCW heel run, or his early WWF sociopath role. A face turn will revitalize Jericho, and he can get the crowd behind him easily enough.

Ric Flair
-- The Man deserves a final run. He STILL is one of the best wrestlers on the roster, and possibly the best on Raw.

Booker T
-- Booker T can do no wrong with the fans nowadays. He's easily carryable by a good wrestler, and gets great reactions. Booker and Goldust carried Raw through the beginning of the Summer. He's my pick to take it.

Kane
-- Kane's the best big man on the WWE roster. His character's also more accessible. I don't think he should get the top face spot, but he's perfectly acceptable as an upper mid-carder.

Whosoever is given the "call", they need to stretch the feud out. Have HHH win with nefarious means over the next couple of months, with the win coming at Survivor Series. From there, they can carry the belt over the next few months, leading to a unification match at Wrestlemania X-9 in Seattle.

By the way, this ain't the first time the WWE has done a bit like this. The first WWWF and I-C titles were given without a match, they were done in non-existant tournaments.


(edited by Mild Mannered Madman on 5.9.02 1653)



We're all mad here... I'm mad... You're mad...
Sinister Evil
Linguica








Since: 28.6.02
From: Staten Island, NY

Since last post: 2109 days
Last activity: 11 hours
AIM:  
#37 Posted on
Now there will be a 'Handed belt' triple threat match between Triple H, Kanyon and Mideon. It will be a ladder match and a bag, with the name "Shane McMahon" on it, will be suspended high above the ring containing a hybrid belt. This belt will have 3 different belts rolled into one:WCW Champion, US Champion, and European Champion.
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 122 days
Last activity: 93 days
#38 Posted on

    Originally posted by Sinister Evil
    Now there will be a 'Handed belt' triple threat match between Triple H, Kanyon and Mideon. It will be a ladder match and a bag, with the name "Shane McMahon" on it, will be suspended high above the ring containing a hybrid belt. This belt will have 3 different belts rolled into one:WCW Champion, US Champion, and European Champion.


Don't forget the ORIGINAL hand-me-down Champion, The Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase. 'Course, Jack Tunney went all "Uh-uh, BEYOTCH!" and vacated the title and set up the famous WrestleMania 4 Tournament.

Oh, and Mark Henry, too. He got handed the European Title.
darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 3513 days
Last activity: 3513 days
#39 Posted on
So they split the belt again, that's no big deal. That way they can tease double main events etc. and a reunification match down the road. Sure it was a dumb way to add a belt, but I really don't think anyone would believe the IC belt as anything but a secondary title anyway. Be patient and see if they do anything with it.
Pages: Prev 1 2
Pages: Prev 1 2Thread ahead: Time to Put Jim Ross out of our Misery
Next thread: That Benoit Video
Previous thread: At College
(11521 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
WWE Championship: Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels:Its the 10th anniversary of the great screwjob. Somehow this HAS to end with Michaels getting screwed by McMahon to bring it full circle. Orton via shenanigans. World Heavyweight Championship:
Related threads: 09.02.02 Raw Thoughts - Shawn.. - YES! The (WCW) WORLD TITLE!!! Ramifications? - More...
The W - Pro Wrestling - Being crowned Raw champ w/o a match.. (Page 2)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.471 seconds.