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The W - Print - Before Watchmen
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 55 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
It's finally happened. DC has confirmed Watchmen prequel comics under the banner Before Watchmen. (dcu.blog.dccomics.com)

The Watchmen-ized new DC Comics logo was a dead giveaway.

Hurm. I can't blame DC. They could no longer ignore all the green more comics about Dr. Manhattan's big blue balls would bring in.

Entertainment Weekly has more on Before Watchmen, including some artwork. (shelf-life.ew.com)


(edited by John Orquiola on 1.2.12 0742)

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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.14
The names attached to it gives me pause not to outright demand Dan Dido's head. JMS, Darwyn Cook and Hughs are people I wouldn't mind seeing on this project. And to be honest, I want to see Cook's take on Minutemen due to my New Frontier fandom. Yet, this is still a crime against humanity, so I will covertly ask for Dido's head on a plate.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.







Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Tenken347
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.13
Coming soon to a theater near you, Citizen Kane 2 and Mr. Smith Goes Back to Washington.
samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 311 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
I'm absolutely going to read them. Sure it's a bit of trespassing on hallowed ground, but that's only a problem with me if it sucks. Clearly DC knows that if this project fails then it will fail hard with the Watchmen fanbase, so they lined up some of the best people in the business to work on it. It's a setting and cast of character I am familiar with and will enjoy reading more about.

Darwyn Cooke on Minutemen is an obvious and great choice. Silk Spectre is the book I'd care the least about, but I will at least check it out to see what the Cooke/Conner team can do.

Azzarello is usually hit or miss with me, but Rorschach and the black ops version of the Comedian seem to be right up his alley.

JMS is good with grandiose concepts, and I hope he does something weird and metaphysical with Dr. Manhattan. Too bad they couldn't get Grant Morrison on that one though.



Lloyd: When I met Mary, I got that old fashioned romantic feeling, where I'd do anything to bone her.
Harry: That's a special feeling.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 55 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
I'm over my initial trepidation. I'm for this. I'm interested in more stories about those characters.

One thing I do regret is I wish there were a way Before Watchmen could have used the movie costumes instead of the comics' costumes. The movie costumes were the one way I felt Zack Snyder's movie improved on the comic, especially in Silk Spectre's case. The costumes were also a source of commentary the movie made on its superhero movie predecessors, the way the comic commented on the conventions on its superhero comics predecessors. Alas, it would make no logical sense to switch the costumes for the prequel comics.




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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.31
If Marvel can bring back Bucky, DC can dust off Watchmen. They've stretched themselves pretty far this year, rebooting the entire line and even ditching Superman's red briefs. They're taking chances and finally tapping the rich vein that will sell like crazy regardless of the fanboy outrage.

Marvel will have to try mighty hard to top this news in the convention season. Like, "we're putting Bendis on Marvelman," big. You know, a Moore Pissing Off Contest.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.33
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    You know, a Moore Pissing Off Contest.

Oh yeah, we almost forgot to mention this. Alan Moore does not approve of this.

    Mr. Moore, who has disassociated himself from DC Comics and the industry at large, called the new venture “completely shameless.”

    Speaking by telephone from his home in Northampton, England, Mr. Moore said, “I tend to take this latest development as a kind of eager confirmation that they are still apparently dependent on ideas that I had 25 years ago.”




lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.14
I just hope JMS remembers this when not if Babylon 5 gets a reboot without him being involved. Also, Moore is not wrong. DC has been throwing everything at the wall to see what works this past year and while 52 seems to work at first, its a short term solution to a giant problem. They have no way to create new characters with new plots. In trying to shove Vertigo into 52 has not helped. It also sounds like Moore had a gentleman's agreement with DC not to have sequels or prequels or spin-offs to Watchmen. So, this is totally different than the excuse being made by others that Moore has used legal domain characters in the past.

(edited by lotjx on 1.2.12 1441)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.







Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.12
    Originally posted by Tenken347
    Coming soon to a theater near you, Citizen Kane 2 and Mr. Smith Goes Back to Washington.


"Why is Mr. Smith killing everybody?"
"Duh, it's a metaphor! He's angry!"



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 67 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
just another reason not to patronize DC Comics in 2012.

BTW, Moore's comments on this are always hilarious, considering he's spent most of the last couple decades either using other people's characters (LXG) or doing pastiches (Tom Strong, Supreme, ...).

(edited by odessasteps on 1.2.12 1727)


Mark Coale
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 55 days
Last activity: 55 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by odessasteps
    just another reason not to patronize DC Comics in 2012.


I'm pretty sure you've said some variation of this in every DC Comics thread you've posted in. We get it.

If the comics actually turn out to be good, none of the bellyaching will matter. I'm reminded of the Kingdom Come spinoffs, which I recall to be godawful. Some of these will probably be stinkers. But you know, the Zack Snyder movie didn't strip the graphic novel of any of its greatness, and neither will these prequel comics, good or bad.

(edited by John Orquiola on 1.2.12 1452)


@BackoftheHead


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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 400 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.94
Don't like this at all. This is like Rob Zombie's Halloween remake that tried to give Michael Myers an explanation. You don't have to know everything. Moore lays out more than enough about the Watchmen universe and it's characters.
Llakor
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec, CANADA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by odessasteps
    just another reason not to patronize DC Comics in 2012.

    BTW, Moore's comments on this are always hilarious, considering he's spent most of the last couple decades either using other people's characters (LXG) or doing pastiches (Tom Strong, Supreme, ...).

    (edited by odessasteps on 1.2.12 1727)


Not to mention that Watchmen itself was based on the Charlton Comics characters so if anyone has a right to be pissed off it's Peter Tomasi, Steve Ditko, Dick Giordano and all the other Charlton creators.

As far as I know, the Watchmen hardcover on my bookshelf is still good. I just checked and Didio didn't break in in the middle of the night and take a dump in its pages.

The deal that DC offered Alan Moore was to return the rights of the originals to him in return for him signing off on the prequels. To the extent that this will sell more copies of the original book, it will make more money for Dave Gibbons at the very least (I know that Moore told DC to give his share of some of the Watchmen money to Gibbons. Not sure if that was the movie money or if it included the book money too.)

In short, (too late) I have no problems with this. If it sucks, it sucks. If it's great, great. (Has JMS even completed The Twelve yet? His inability to close worries me)

Keep in mind that after Watchmen came out Denny O'Neill gave us the best Rorshach series possible - one of the best comic book series of the late Eighties. He just called it The Question.




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Lise
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Since: 11.12.01

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
http://it-sparkles.blogspot.com/2012/02/no-fun.html


    It was a dirty deal, and the fact that there are people who want to rationalize it by saying, "Well, Alan Moore wrote League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Lost Girls, and those books used other writers's characters, so how is this any different?" just shows that truth is a sadly devalued currency. It's different because Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons negotiated, in good faith, a deal that would have allowed them to retain the rights to Watchmen.
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 67 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.97
    Originally posted by Llakor
      Originally posted by odessasteps
      just another reason not to patronize DC Comics in 2012.

      BTW, Moore's comments on this are always hilarious, considering he's spent most of the last couple decades either using other people's characters (LXG) or doing pastiches (Tom Strong, Supreme, ...).

      (edited by odessasteps on 1.2.12 1727)


    Not to mention that Watchmen itself was based on the Charlton Comics characters so if anyone has a right to be pissed off it's Peter Tomasi, Steve Ditko, Dick Giordano and all the other Charlton creators.

    As far as I know, the Watchmen hardcover on my bookshelf is still good. I just checked and Didio didn't break in in the middle of the night and take a dump in its pages.

    The deal that DC offered Alan Moore was to return the rights of the originals to him in return for him signing off on the prequels. To the extent that this will sell more copies of the original book, it will make more money for Dave Gibbons at the very least (I know that Moore told DC to give his share of some of the Watchmen money to Gibbons. Not sure if that was the movie money or if it included the book money too.)

    In short, (too late) I have no problems with this. If it sucks, it sucks. If it's great, great. (Has JMS even completed The Twelve yet? His inability to close worries me)

    Keep in mind that after Watchmen came out Denny O'Neill gave us the best Rorshach series possible - one of the best comic book series of the late Eighties. He just called it The Question.



Coincidentally, a new issue of The Twelve came out today.

JMS appears to have not covered himself in glory in this matter, based on second-hand twitter accounts of things he has said this week.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine presents


RUSSIAN FLAG BURIAL - an examination of 1984 mid-south


CxMorgado
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

Since last post: 243 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.70
    Originally posted by Llakor
      Originally posted by odessasteps
      just another reason not to patronize DC Comics in 2012.

      BTW, Moore's comments on this are always hilarious, considering he's spent most of the last couple decades either using other people's characters (LXG) or doing pastiches (Tom Strong, Supreme, ...).

      (edited by odessasteps on 1.2.12 1727)


    Not to mention that Watchmen itself was based on the Charlton Comics characters so if anyone has a right to be pissed off it's Peter Tomasi, Steve Ditko, Dick Giordano and all the other Charlton creators.

    As far as I know, the Watchmen hardcover on my bookshelf is still good. I just checked and Didio didn't break in in the middle of the night and take a dump in its pages.

    The deal that DC offered Alan Moore was to return the rights of the originals to him in return for him signing off on the prequels. To the extent that this will sell more copies of the original book, it will make more money for Dave Gibbons at the very least (I know that Moore told DC to give his share of some of the Watchmen money to Gibbons. Not sure if that was the movie money or if it included the book money too.)

    In short, (too late) I have no problems with this. If it sucks, it sucks. If it's great, great. (Has JMS even completed The Twelve yet? His inability to close worries me)

    Keep in mind that after Watchmen came out Denny O'Neill gave us the best Rorshach series possible - one of the best comic book series of the late Eighties. He just called it The Question.



I won't bother touching on the business end of things (because as Mark Waid pointed out yesterday on Comics Alliance, it's FAR more complicated and goes much deeper than just the issue of the original contract at this point, for both sides... saying Moore was using thinly veiled versions of the Charlton characters is a gross simplification as well, and one that's besides the point since at no time has the man spoken out against using pastiches), but as someone who constantly held Moore's work on LXG and Lost Girls against him when the Watchmen movie was coming out, I have to say that his full explanation actually is pretty valid and non-hypocritical:


    In terms of comics, yes. When I entered the comics medium, I preferred creating my own characters, things like Halo Jones and stuff like that. But the nature of the comics medium at the time was that you were handed other people's characters. And at the time, I didn't see anything wrong with that. I was handed Swamp Thing by Len Wein, who was the creator, and he seemed to be quite happy with me to change it around and make it a new concept that I was quite happy working with.

    All of these things, it was the way that comics worked and after a while I began to have doubts about that. I can remember when I was offered-this was with Brian Bolland-the Batman/Judge Dredd team-up and this was something that was going to happen until I had a word with John Wagner, who was a very good friend of mine and who -- he may not have been the creator of Judge Dredd, but he was the person most associated with its success -- John told me that he was very angry to hear that I would be taking this Judge Dredd character, which was not what I had been told, so I dropped the project on the instant because I don't believe in taking work from other people.

    I eventually got to the point where I felt uncomfortable dealing with any franchise character, and a few years ago I stopped. I decided that I would probably never work with any franchise character again...

    When you get to the literary field, which is something different to comics, in literature almost as far aback as literature goes, there has been a tendency to take characters that are obsolete or where the authors have died. If you look at the Orlando character from The League, this is someone who was originally a swipe from the Legends of Roland. Roland becomes Orlando and we then find that someone does Orlando Furioso. Its followed another 80 years later by someone who does Orlando Innamorato. Then Virginia Woolf comes along a few hundred years later and decides to create the character as her dual gender character Orlando...

    It might be splitting hairs, but I'm not adapting these people, these characters. I'm not doing an adaptation of Dracula or King Solomon's Mines. What I am doing is I'm stealing them. There is a difference between doing an adaptation, which is evil, and actually stealing characters, which is, as long as everybody is dead or you don't mention the names, is all right by me...

    With comics characters that have been created by cheated old men, I feel that is different...



Read More: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/02/07/alan-moore-grant-morrison-harvey-pekar-video/#ixzz1liRyzNVF

The full video chat can be found in the source link; it's over 2 hours long but the relevant bit is at around the 19:15 mark (and should probably be watched because the transcripts don't ever do him justice- he's got that dry British wit thing going on and it makes stuff like that last paragraph sound far more bitter and egotistical than he seems to actually be). His tongue does go slightly in cheek a bit at the end, but I see his point. His Dorothy is not L Frank Baum's Dorothy and whatever adventures he creates for her, erotic or otherwise, are intended to stand alone*. JMS's Doctor Manhattan story, Cookie's Minutemen story, etc are meant to be the same characters, and their adventures are meant to be a part of the story Moore originally told. Or as Kurt Busiek put it on his Facebook page:


    There's a difference between "build and transform and make something new" and "right, that went well, let's have more of that."


http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10150505861665829&id=201264465828

*- which is why I don't see this argument as valid when it comes to Moore's work being adapted to film.




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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 55 days
Last activity: 55 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.16
A look at the artwork for the Before Watchmen books. (buzzfeed.com)

Man, this is some beautiful stuff. Better looking than Dave Gibbons' art, to be honest. Screwing Alan Moore over never looked so good.



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samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 311 days
Last activity: 303 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
Wow. Yeah, wow. That Minutemen book is the perfect thing to followup his work on New Frontier. Amanda Conner's lighter style is a nice departure from Gibbons, and Jae Lee's Ozymandius reminded me a lot of his Inhumans book.
Cerebus
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Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 24 days
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.95
It is nice and Jae Lee's Inhumans was really good, but I'm still not touching these.

Not because of Alan Moore, but because I don't care about the characters. I don't really think Watchmen was all that great to begin with, to tell the truth.



Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
DrewDewce
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

Since last post: 26 days
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Y!:
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    It is nice and Jae Lee's Inhumans was really good, but I'm still not touching these.

    Not because of Alan Moore, but because I don't care about the characters. I don't really think Watchmen was all that great to begin with, to tell the truth.


Ditto. (and I think JMS is a douche).

If I see the TPBs in the bargain bin (and I feel that I will) then maybe, but not paying full price for individual issues or TPBs on release.



"You are going to get a certain amount of snarkiness on the Internet no matter what, and my rule is that you don't post anything that you wouldn't say to someone's face."
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Goddamn, I'm not a huge fan of the "traditional" costume, but ffs the late 80s/early 90s called and want their fashion sense back. The jacket is particularly heinous. It's like early 90s Dazzler had a daughter with Nightwing.
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