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The W - Football - BCS - 11/11/2002 (Page 2)
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Dutchie
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Since: 29.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 19 days
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#21 Posted on
Yeah, TheCow, I admit, the 18 game season is never going to happen, and I seriously doubt any college program will cut the number of games by 4 because there's no guarantee of a postseason payoff and they'd lose huge amounts of money. And I face up to the fact that college football is a business. However, I admit I'm wrong. Just when I think I can actually do math, I find out they changed it so QP's are only given for top 10 teams now. I thought it was still the top 15. My bad, I apologize. But I still think it's possible that the human factor in the BCS ranking system can play a part in a big Notre Dame jump. There's still big discrepancies between the human polls and the computer polls. Iowa's lost one game. Their human poll average is about 3-4 spots higher than their computer average. On the flipside, Notre Dame, also with one loss, has a human poll three points lower than their computer average. One computer has ND ranked as high as three. You give ND a convincing win over USC, and I think the human numbers will shoot up enough to make it an interesting little race.

However... all the math in the world doesn't defy this little piece of BCS-ness:

Therefore, there WILL be an ACC vs Big East in the Orange Bowl - rikidozan

Checking the ACC standings, Florida State's undefeated (in the conference) with 2 conference games left. NC and NC State. NC State's a possibility, but NC hasn't won a game, have they? Even if FSU loses to NC State, they'd be tied with Maryland. And FSU has beaten Maryland, so then a team with three losses will be in the Orange Bowl. Three losses and they get a BCS bowl...yeah, two of the three teams they've lost to are ranked highly, and one was a heartbreaker on a last second field goal miss, but still...



"This is not Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
true, FSU has beaten Maryland, but if they end up tied, maryland will take the ACC if they have the higher average in the 2 polls. if FSU loses to either NC, or NCS, they will most likely drop a few spots, and maryland will jump a few if they win their last games

trivial note: last year was the first time FSU wasn't the ACC champ since they joined in the early 90's. MD was the champ last yer

from the offical ACC webpage at http://theacc.ocsn.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/110602aah.html

"Article IV of the ACC Manual

Bowl Championship Series tie-breaking procedures for the ACC.

The ACC football champion is the team that finishes the season with the highest winning percentage in conference games. If more than one team has the same winning percentage, the tied teams are declared co-champions.
[THIS IS WHY WE NEED A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, OR DIVIDE THE 9 TEAMS INTO 2 OR 3 DIVISIONS SO THEY CAN PLAY MORE NON-CONF TEAMS - Rikidozan]

In order to determine the conference's representative to the Bowl Championship Series (BCS), the procedured listed below will be followed. All references to ranking refer to BCS standings released after the regular season is completed for all ACC members.

Two Way Tie (between Teams A & B)

1. Team A defeats Team B and is ranked higher -- Team A earns the BCS bid
2. Team A defeats Team B and is ranked lower, but in the Top 10 -- Team A earns bid (*except if Team B is ranked No. 1 or No. 2 in the BCS standings, then Team B earns the BCS bid).
3. Team A defeats Team B and is ranked lower, but is ranked five or fewer positions below Team B -- Team A earns the BCS bid.
4. Team A defeats Team B and is ranked lower, and more than five positions below Team B -- Team B earns the BCS bid.

If two teams have the same ranking, or both are unranked, the bid goes to the team that has won the head-to-head game.
[NOTE, ALL ACC TEAMS PLAY EACH OTHER, SO 8 OF THEIR GAMES ARE CONF GAMES, UNLIKE THE PROBLEM IN THE BIG TEN RIGHT NOW - Rikidozan]

Three Way Tie (a "mini-conference" is created among the three tied teams)

Scenario I: All three teams have either a 7-1 or 6-2 conference record and have each won one and lost one against the other tied teams in the mini-conference. In this case, the highest ranked team among the three earns the bid. If two of the three teams have the same ranking, the bid is earned by the team winning the head-to-head matchup. Of none of the teams are ranked, the BCS Bowl would select the team of its choice from among the tied teams.

Scenario II: All three teams have 6-2 conference records. Within the mini-conference, Team A is 2-0, Team B is 1-1 and Team C is 0-2.
1. If Team A is ranked higher than Teams B and C, Team A earns the BCS bid.
2. If Team A is not the highest ranked but is in the Top 10, Team A earns the bid unless Team B or Team C is ranked either No. 1 or No. 2 in the BCS standings, then Team B or C receives the BCS bid.
3. If Team A is not ranked, but the highest ranked team in the mini-conference is ranked No. 21 or lower, Team A earns the BCS bid.
4. If Team A is not the highest ranked team and is ranked more than five spots below the highest ranked team in the mini-conference, Team A is eliminated from consideration.
Subsequently,
1. If Team B is ranked higher than Team C, Team B earns the BCS bid.
2. If Team B is ranked lower than Team C but is in the Top 10, Team B earns bid unless Team C is ranked either No. 1 or No. 2 in the BCS standings, then Team C receives the BCS bid.
3. If Team B is ranked lower than Team C, but ranked five or fewer spots below Team C, Team B earns the bid, unless Team C is ranked either No. 1 or No. 2 in the BCS standings, then Team C receives the BCS bid.
4. If Team B is ranked lower than Team C, but is ranked six or more spots below Team C, Team C earns the BCS bid."





currently:

FSU 7-3 (6-0) BCS 11th, poll average 15
Maryland 7-2 (4-1) BCS NR, poll average 19
NC State 9-2 (4-2) BCS NR, poll average 21
Virginia 6-4 (4-2) BCS NR, poll average NR

so if FSU drops to both NC AND NCS, there could be a 3-way for the ACC title.

* FSU has 3 games left:
NC, NCSU, Florida
* Maryland has 3 games left, all ACC games:
Clemson, Virgina, Wake Forest
* NCSU has 2 games left, both ACC
Virgina, and FSU
* VA has 3 games left
NCSU, MD, VA Tech

soooooo

FSU is the ACC champ, unless they lose to NC or NCSU.
if they do lose an ACC game, then MD has a chance if they win their last 3.

NCSU and VA play this weekend, so one will knock the other out of the ACC title.





I doubt they will invoke the "Big East" rule in this case.


from collegebcs.com

"What is the "Big East rule?

The "Big East" rule says that "The automatic selection of the original BCS conference champions is subject to review and possible (my emphasis) loss of automatic selection by the BCS should the conference champion not have an average ranking of 12 or higher over a four-year period."
By "higher" they mean "better," of course. The word "possible" means they have no intention of ever taking away any conference's automatic bid, but they are not going to box themselves in in case some conference really tanks. A conference would have be a lot worse than that before this was ever seriously considered.

It is called the "Big East" rule becasue it was created after Syracuse won the Big East in 1998 finishing 15th.

Normally, I would be crtical of measuring the value of a league by only its champion, but in the case of the BCS, it makes sense. Only the champion is guaranteed a spot in the BCS, so that is really the only team they care about. Also, this is not a hard and fast rule and it is obvious they have no intention of invoking it.

The league champion average ranking for the first four years:
Conf Avg 2001 2000 1999 1998
Big 12 3.25 *Colorado (3) Oklahoma (1) Nebraska (3) *Texas A&M (6)
ACC 3.75 Maryland (10) Florida St (2) Florida St (1) Florida St (2)
Big East 5.25 Miami (1) Miami (3) Virginia Tech (2) Syracuse (15)
SEC 6.25 LSU (13) Florida (7) Alabama (4) Tennessee (1)
Pac 10 8.75 Oregon (4) Washington (4) Stanford (22) UCLA (5)
Big 10 10.25 Illinois (8) *Purdue (17) Wisconsin (7) *Wisconsin (9)

* - In 1998, both the Big 12 and Big 10 had teams rated higher than their champions (#3 Kansas St, #4 Ohio St). In 2000, Michigan (16) was rated ahead of Big 10 champion Purdue. In 2001, both Florida (#5) and Tennessee (#6) ranked ahead of SEC champion LSU. Also, Big 12 champion Colorado finished below #2 Nebraska. Fortunately, there were no hard feelings. "

(edited by rikidozan on 15.11.02 0420)


Wrestling has been rhyming with ass. I miss shows and it makes me all shades of ambivalence. WWE is starting to suck again. The crops?
Jeezum Spice! Someone stole my crops. What in the ham fat is going on. That's just poo-doo!
That's just my 2.4856 Yen.
R-D-Z
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 19 hours
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#23 Posted on
CNNSI.com's BCS bowl projections for this week

Fiesta: Ohio State vs. Miami
Rose: Iowa vs. Washington State
Sugar: Georgia vs. Notre Dame
Orange: Florida State vs. Oklahoma

The Orange in this case is not ACC/Big East but ACC/Big 12. Except for the Fiesta (this year's title game) and the Rose the BCS bowl "draft" who they want to have from the pool of available BCS teams. In the case of the CNNSI projections, the teams are:

Miami (Big East Champ)
Ohio State (Big 10 champ)
Oklahoma (Big 12 champ)
Georgia (SEC Champ)
Washington State (Pac 10 champ)
Florida State (ACC champ)
Iowa (at large)
Notre Dame (at large)

Miami and Ohio State are #1 and #2. They go to the Fiesta.
Washington State is going to the Rose Bowl as Pac 10 champ. Iowa matches up with them because the are *BCS eligible*. If they lose their last two games amd Ohio State beats Michigan I think the Rose Bowl can take whoever they want.

Now the Orange and Sugar Bowl choose RANDOMLY from the last 4 teams remaining. I'm assuming by the CNNSI projections that they picked (1) Notre Dame - Sugar, (2) Oklahoma - Orange, (3) Georgia - Sugar, and (4) Florida State - Orange.

ESPN.com's bowl projections indicate Pac 10 v. Big 10 for the Rose Bowl but just BCS for the Sugar and Orange Bowls with no conference tie-ins for either game.

Also, Notre Dame at #7 can be picked ahead of Texas at #6. That happened a coupe of years ago when then-#4 Kansas State ended up playing Purdue in the Alamo Bowl. Purdue beat them, too.






"I figure that if we can manage to survive through a cross-country drive, marriage can't help but be a snap." - CRZ, the Last RAW Recap
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TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

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#24 Posted on
I think the moral of all of this is just let someone else do the math, and then bitch about the results.
JayJay, I think you're technically right about the Rose Bowl being able to take someone other than Iowa (and, of course, Ohio St.) if your scenario plays out, but I'm wondering if they will. The Rose Bowl has historically been Big 10/Pac 10, and I'm wondering if they'll drop that for BCS affiliation if it plays out.

BTW, your "random" projections match up with the conference alignment for the Sugar and Orange Bowls - SEC in the Sugar, ACC in the Orange. Of course, normally the Big 12 would be in the Fiesta, but since that's the national championship this year, they'd move to the Orange (since Miami's going to be in the top 2 - as of now).

Of course, this all doesn't matter if these teams don't win out, does it? ;)







Which Neglected Mario Character Are You?

JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 19 hours
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Y!:
#25 Posted on
I was wrong about the tie-in thing, according to the BCS website. I do remember that at one point it was random and they had a selection show and everything. I think the tie-ins are a recent addition to this whole BCS mess.

At least we all seem to agree that the BCS is crap.



"I figure that if we can manage to survive through a cross-country drive, marriage can't help but be a snap." - CRZ, the Last RAW Recap
"A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" - me
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
rose bowl will take a pac 10-big ten match up, if at all possible, meaning if there are no bowl eligble teams in the conf, then they have to select somewhere else...

and ya, as you stated before orange is usually acc/big east, but since miami is BCS #2, orange has to take an at-large for the big east selection.



Wrestling has been rhyming with ass. I miss shows and it makes me all shades of ambivalence. WWE is starting to suck again. The crops?
Jeezum Spice! Someone stole my crops. What in the ham fat is going on. That's just poo-doo!
That's just my 2.4856 Yen.
R-D-Z
CubsWoo
Bauerwurst








Since: 25.4.02
From: Chi-town burbs

Since last post: 3224 days
Last activity: 21 days
AIM:  
#27 Posted on
The Rose Bowl doesn't HAVE to take a B10-P10 matchup.

But they will.

For the past, oh, 50 years, the Rose Bowl has basically been a very lucrative business agreement between the Big 10, the Pac 10, and the Tournament of Roses Committee. Assuming Ohio State makes it to Tempe, Iowa is still a great choice since they're still a top 5 team as long as they beat Minnesota. If they lose and drop out of the BCS top 12, expect Notre Dame to take the Big 10's spot.

As for Notre Dame - you can bet as long as they stay in the top 12 of the BCS they'll find themselves in a BCS bowl. The BCS is much, MUCH more concerned about television ratings (did ANYONE really watch Colorado vs. Oregon last year?) and attendance (I have a feeling they're rooting against Florida State, since they're notorious for not traveling to see their team and leaving a lot of empty seats.)



Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
i'm not going to repeat myself so go here for all your bcs needs. Click Here


also


who do people feel about the new rule stating that quality wins will count against teams on probation?

anyone see the logical error?

BCS is used to crown the coaches champ.

the coaches poll does not include teams on probation.

how would a team on probation make the top 10 of the BCS? the BCS will use the AP poll as their poll average.

So, if Alabama makes the top 5 of the AP, and they get ranked high by the computers, and make the BCS top 10, teams can get quality wins.

of course, if they are in the top 4 of the BCS, they are still ineligable for bowl bids...


also, ncaafootball.net has a very easy to read BCS bowl selection process:

"Six automatic bids go to conference champions from the ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-10 and SEC, leaving two at-large spots to fill the four BCS bowls -- the Fiesta, Orange, Rose and Sugar.

The top two teams in the final BCS standings on Dec. 8 play for the national title in the Fiesta Bowl on Jan. 3, with the rankings also determining which teams gain the lucrative at-large berths.

Here are the BCS at-large guidelines, in order, according to BCS officials:


Notre Dame is guaranteed a spot if it finishes in the top six of the final BCS standings. The Fighting Irish are not in a conference.
The third-place team in the final BCS standings is guaranteed an at-large spot.
If the third-place team is not an at-large choice and a spot still remains open, then it goes to the fourth-place team.
If there's still an open spot, any of the top 12 teams in the final BCS standings can be invited as long as it has the required nine victories."



Wrestling has been rhyming with ass. I miss shows and it makes me all shades of ambivalence. WWE is starting to suck again. The crops?
Jeezum Spice! Someone stole my crops. What in the ham fat is going on. That's just poo-doo!
That's just my 2.4856 Yen.
R-D-Z
CubsWoo
Bauerwurst








Since: 25.4.02
From: Chi-town burbs

Since last post: 3224 days
Last activity: 21 days
AIM:  
#29 Posted on
After Saturday, here's how the BCS top 15 fared:

Ohio State: Def. Illinois 23-16 (OT)
Miami: Idle
Washington State: Idle
Oklahoma: Def. Baylor 49-9
Texas: Lost to Texas Tech 42-38
Georgia: Def. Auburn 24-21
Notre Dame: Idle
Iowa: Def. Minnesota 45-21
USC: Def. Arizona State 34-13
Michigan: Def. Wisconsin 21-14
Florida State: Def. North Carolina 40-14
Kansas State: Def. Nebraska 49-13
LSU: Lost to Alabama 31-0
Florida: Def. South Carolina 28-7
Penn State: Def. Indiana 48-25

My BCS top 6 predictions:

#1: Ohio State
#2: Miami
#3: Washington State
#4: Oklahoma
#5: Notre Dame
#6: Georgia

Bowls break down thusly:

Rose: Iowa (At-large) vs. Washington State (Pac-10)
Sugar: Georgia (SEC) vs. Notre Dame (At-Large)
Orange: Florida State (ACC) vs. Oklahoma (Big 12)
Fiesta: Ohio State (#1) vs. Miami (#2)

Thanks, Texas - you made this much easier.



TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 2357 days
Last activity: 2356 days
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Y!:
#30 Posted on
Of course, we don't know what everything will look like in 2 weeks, either. Remember last year? Yeah, that was supposed to be simple. Then everyone lost.

(Except, of course, for Miami.)







Which Neglected Mario Character Are You?

Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by CubsWoo
    Thanks, Texas - you made this much easier.


i think that's the only think we've agreed on this last week, lol




Wrestling has been rhyming with ass. I miss shows and it makes me all shades of ambivalence. WWE is starting to suck again. The crops?
Jeezum Spice! Someone stole my crops. What in the ham fat is going on. That's just poo-doo!
That's just my 2.4856 Yen.
R-D-Z
FLRockAndLaw
Boerewors








Since: 2.1.02
From: Central Florida, somewhere between Orlando and Tampa, U.S.A.

Since last post: 89 days
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
#32 Posted on

    Originally posted by CubsWoo
    (snip)
    Bowls break down thusly:
    (snip)
    Orange: Florida State (ACC) vs. Oklahoma (Big 12)



I love this... if this does happen, anyone notice the complete irony involved?

2000 Sugar Bowl for 1999 Season - Florida State vs. Virginia Tech in the National Championship game (FSU wins)

2001 Orange Bowl for 2000 Season - Florida State vs. Oklahoma in the National Championship game (FSU loses)

2002 Gator Bowl for 2001 Season - Florida State vs. Virginia Tech (FSU wins)

(Projected) 2003 Orange Bowl for 2002 Season - Florida State vs. Oklahoma (FSU loses?)

Sorry. Couldn't help noticing that, and just had to point it out... ;)



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Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by CubsWoo
    My BCS top 6 predictions:

    #1: Ohio State
    #2: Miami
    #3: Washington State
    #4: Oklahoma
    #5: Notre Dame
    #6: Georgia



my BCS top 15 predictions

#1 Ohio State
#2 Miami, FL
#3 Washington State
#4 Oklahoma
#5 Georgia
#6 Iowa
#7 Notre Dame
#8 USC
#9 ALABAMA!!!!! remember, the AP poll counts as poll average
#10 Texas
#11 Michigan
#12 Florida State
#13 Kansas State
#14 Florida
#15 Colorado



(edited by rikidozan on 17.11.02 1334)


Wrestling has been rhyming with ass. I miss shows and it makes me all shades of ambivalence. WWE is starting to suck again. The crops?
Jeezum Spice! Someone stole my crops. What in the ham fat is going on. That's just poo-doo!
That's just my 2.4856 Yen.
R-D-Z
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 2357 days
Last activity: 2356 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#34 Posted on
Of course, Alabama's position doesn't matter outside of quality win points, and that only helps Georgia and Oklahoma - some would argue just Oklahoma, since Georgia's not going to be in the national title game (at least, I don't think they will be - I'd be surprised).







Which Neglected Mario Character Are You?

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I know that last year Joe Gibbs threw out a challenge flag when the opposing team had twelve men on the field and the other team was penalized. So, penalties can be reviewed. I don't know if delay of game (or lack of) calls can be reviewed, though.
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