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The W - Current Events & Politics - Basketball player's war protest (Page 3)
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vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2996 days
Last activity: 210 days
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by jfkfc
    1. If she really didn't want to get noticed, she would have done what she wanted to do outside of the public forum - it is in public, and is a non-verbal statement.



Where OTHER than in "the public forum" are people asked to stop what they're doing, stand up and face the flag while the national anthem is played?


    Originally posted by calvinh0560
    Does anyone know if this girl is receiving federal financial ad at all to go to this school?


Why should anyone care?

Why should that be in the least bit relevant?




"...Also, living in NYC, to stop any terrorists from braking into my home I've crammed pickles in the gap between the front door and the floor - try and brake past my juicy green wall of defense." -- commenter on FARK
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 162 days
Last activity: 162 days
#42 Posted on
Unless she's going to college on funds given to her directly by the current administration, I would think the point is moot.

-Jag



If they studied their paper money for clues as to what their country was al about, they found, among a lot of other baroque trash, a picture of a truncated pyramid with a radiant eye on top of it, like this:



Not even the President of the United States knew what that was all about. It was as though the country were saying to its citizens, "In nonsense is strength."

-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. Breakfast of Champions
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 61 days
Last activity: 8 days
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87

    Originally posted by vsp
    Where OTHER than in "the public forum" are people asked to stop what they're doing, stand up and face the flag while the national anthem is played?
I totally agree with you, only in a public area is that asked of a person. Why is this relevant? Facing the flag automatically means that you blindly support everything that every representative of your country says, does, or feels? No way is she wrong for what she did, but she should have realized it was a public statement, not tried to cowtow to anyone else by backtracking and saying it wasn't intended to be anything more than a private gesture.



"You know Monsoon, I am impressed, and I don't impress easy"
-Jesse "The Body" Ventura

"Bob Ryder sucks" - Me.
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2793 days
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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Unless she's going to college on funds given to her directly by the current administration, I would think the point is moot.

    -Jag



I think the point is that she's protesting the U.S., so people want to know if she's getting government aid. And is M'ville a public or private college?



"... I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass..."

Pedro Martinez
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#45 Posted on

    Originally posted by PalpatineW

      Originally posted by Jaguar
      Unless she's going to college on funds given to her directly by the current administration, I would think the point is moot.

      -Jag



    I think the point is that she's protesting the U.S., so people want to know if she's getting government aid. And is M'ville a public or private college?



Come on, shes not protesting the US. Shes protesting against a specific area of government policy.

Personally I have no time for the monarchy in my country and take issue with having 'God save the Queen' as my national anthem.

But I'll be damned if I'll cut off my nose to spite my face by refusing help offered to me by the monarchs government



"You dont appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older. Little things like being spanked every day by a middle aged woman: stuff you'd pay good money for these days."


One time undisputed Wiener of the day 2.11.02
Swordsman Yen
Frankfurter








Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

Since last post: 3900 days
Last activity: 3883 days
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
From the desk of Swordsman Yen
Remember NBA player Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf several years ago? He didn't want to stand for the national anthem because he felt that the flag stood for oppression and against his religious beliefs. The NBA suspended him for that. There was no outcry that Mahmoud's wasn't given the right to freedom of speech. In fact, the justification was that "he gets paid a lot of money, so he has no right to say that". The result is that Mahmoud garnered little sympathy and widespread criticism.

Fast forward to the present. Some college girl faces away from the flag under the questionable (if not false) pretense of not wanting her protest to be noticed. She gets no disciplinary action from the team or the school. In fact, the college supports her right to protest, as do many out there. People fawn over her, saying things to the extent of "This poor girl is just expressing herself. Leave her alone." Even some are giving her the widely-misused label of "hero". It appears the worst that has happened to her is some vet off his medication rushing the court to wave a flag in her face.

Mahmoud and this girl shared similar beliefs, yet Mahmoud probably wished he had half the support this girl is getting. Somebody tell me how the good-old fashioned double standard isn't in play here.

(On a side note, I have absolutely no problem with the girl's beliefs on the flag or American policy. However, I do question the method that she chose to express them by selfishly putting her own motives ahead of the team and potentially causing an unwanted distraction from what they're supposed to primarily be doing: playing basketball.)



"I don't care what people think. People are stupid." -- Charles Barkley
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2793 days
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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44

    Originally posted by dMr

      Originally posted by PalpatineW

        Originally posted by Jaguar
        Unless she's going to college on funds given to her directly by the current administration, I would think the point is moot.

        -Jag



      I think the point is that she's protesting the U.S., so people want to know if she's getting government aid. And is M'ville a public or private college?



    Come on, shes not protesting the US. Shes protesting against a specific area of government policy.

    Personally I have no time for the monarchy in my country and take issue with having 'God save the Queen' as my national anthem.

    But I'll be damned if I'll cut off my nose to spite my face by refusing help offered to me by the monarchs government



Last I checked, she's protesting the U.S. I don't question her right to do so, but I don't want to mistakenly tie this in with the Iraq issue. When she said there is "inequality" here, and that "the rich [are getting] richer and the poor [are getting] poorer," I don't think she was referring to Iraq.



"... I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass..."

Pedro Martinez
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3552 days
Last activity: 1972 days
#48 Posted on
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    You mock the Vietnam vet in the story pretty freely, Slasher. Maybe it's easier to understand the feelings of some airhead college kid than it is to understand the feelings of a man who has likely faced death and worse in the name of his country. Surely this sheltered middle class girl has more legitimate reasons for what she says than this silly "war hero," eh


Don't care if he's a "war hero" or Pope John Paul, you harass a 20 year old girl I think pretty low of you. Just because your a vet doesn't give you carte blanche to be a total ass... If he really wants to get his message out, do a speech during Veterans Day. Or do what every whacko does. Call up a AM talk radio show and spew for 3 minutes, either way stay out of Toni's stage.

I don't think I was mocking him too much, I actually thought I kept it pretty P.C. If I really wanted to go over the line I would have said something like "I wonder how many 20 year old Vietnam women he felt the need to be aggressive with." Or something like bully + military + United States flag = well I'm sure you can fill the rest... But that would jumping to conclusions, you know much like people who are calling her an anti-American who hates and despises everything the flag represents. Even though they read what specific cause (or causes) she disagrees with America. One thing to jump to conclusions, it's another thing to stand on your own conclusion even if when she stated her story.

It's so funny reading, She's got the right to her opinion BUT.. Let's have an FBI investigation on her to see if she got any American benefits what so ever. I hope she has because you know she's AMERCIAN. I'd venture to guess her family pays taxes and are not secretly come to the U.S as some terrorist cell sponsored by a middle east billionaire. Because you don't sit there with you mini flag and sheepishly scream "Love it or Leave it" at every situation doesn't make you any less American. I actually think it makes you more American to have an independent thought.

As for doing this in public, I just give her respect for being such a young age actually believing in something and going against the grain even with the the most people would look at her just as an anti-American.



(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 4.3.03 1615)

Was mentioned Three times, 3X, 3X. In the "Great Wieners" thread!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#49 Posted on
    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    Don't care if he's a "war hero" or Pope John Paul, you harass a 20 year old girl I think pretty low of you. Just because your a vet doesn't give you carte blanche to be a total ass... If he really wants to get his message out, do a speech during Veterans Day. Or do what every whacko does. Call up a AM talk radio show and spew for 3 minutes, either way stay out of Toni's stage.

    I don't think I was mocking him too much, I actually thought I kept it pretty P.C. If I really wanted to go over the line I would have said something like "I wonder how many 20 year old Vietnam women he felt the need to be aggressive with." Or something like bully + military + United States flag = well I'm sure you can fill the rest... But that would jumping to conclusions, you know much like people who are calling her an anti-American who hates and despises everything the flag represents. Even though they read what specific cause (or causes) she disagrees with America. One thing to jump to conclusions, it's another thing to stand on your own conclusion even if when she stated her story.

    It's so funny reading, She's got the right to her opinion BUT.. Let's have an FBI investigation on her to see if she got any American benefits what so ever. I hope she has because you know she's AMERCIAN. I'd venture to guess her family pays taxes and are not secretly come to the U.S as some terrorist cell sponsored by a middle east billionaire. Because you don't sit there with you mini flag and sheepishly scream "Love it or Leave it" at every situation doesn't make you any less American. I actually think it makes you more American to have an independent thought.

    As for doing this in public, I just give her respect for being such a young age actually believing in something and going against the grain even with the the most people would look at her just as an anti-American.




I have already stated that I support her right to do what she did. However, it is crap like this that makes it so hard to "cross the line" or discuss any issue rationally. Why is it necessary to completely blast one of our soldiers, who DID fight for this country, over the totally MINOR point about what kinds of benifits she is getting? What in God's name is wrong with just disagreeing, and pointing out that whether or not she is recieving federal finantial aid it totally irrelavant to the point at hand? I agree with you on the core issue, Net, but this sort of firey rhetoric only serves to make it damn near impossible for anyone on "this" side of the aisle to stand up and agree with you. The stance you are taking here is that "Toni is right, Vetrans are rapists, and anyone who listens to AM radio is a whacko." What is the point of debating if anyone who can possibly disagree with you is a total moron or absolutly evil?

The vet has every right to be offended at her protest, just as she has every right to protest in the first place. Neither one is "evil" here, regardless of what NHS seems to think ...


(edited by Pool-Boy on 4.3.03 1329)


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