The W
Views: 98616565
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
2.9.14 0636
The W - Current Events & Politics - Basketball player's war protest (Page 2)
This thread has 50 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next(2270 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (49 total)
Overmind
Linguica








Since: 17.10.02
From: Orlando, FL

Since last post: 3226 days
Last activity: 2326 days
#21 Posted on

    Originally posted by vsp

      Originally posted by jfkfc
      Hey, if she wants to turn her back during the anthem, no one is going to stop her, and no one should (though my views don't jibe with hers), but to say that it wasn't meant to be a public statement when you are making the statement publicly where you can be seen and noticed, that is rather inconsistant, in my opinion.


    I'm inferring that she meant that she wasn't doing it to intentionally attract attention. She wasn't burning a flag at center court, flipping the bird at the flag, or loudly reciting variations on Iron Sheik riffs (IRAQ - NUMBER ONE! TONI SMITH - NUMBER ONE! AMERICA - HAAAACK - PTOOOOIE!), for example.

    Instead, she turned away from the flag and stood quietly until the anthem was over and it was time to play basketball. That's not what I would call confrontational or theatrical (or, IMHO, even inappropriate) behavior. The fact that so many people felt personally threatened by this, and that it's subsequently blown up to national-news proportions, is more saddening than amusing on the whole.

    Some of the anti-Toni responses absolutely crack me up, however. Shoving flags in her face, marching with flags and placards outside where she plays, chanting "Leave this country"... what kind of mentality do these people have?

    Sometimes I wish I could take a pill and experience this kind of mindset, just for half an hour, as long as it was guaranteed to wear off. "A college student isn't facing the flag. THIS MATTERS TO ME, DEEPLY! The fate of our Great Nation is at stake! I must go wave a flag at her, so that she'll see the error of her ways and CONFORM during our ritualized displays of patriotism! I have nothing more important to do than to go and challenge this wayward youth in person!"

    Sheesh.



I agree completely. The fact that this had been going on silently for months before anyone noticed is pretty good evidence that she is not deliberately seeking attention.

It seems to me that protesting what you believe to be a mistake by the government is not contrary to patriotism, but its essence. All of our greatest forward strides as a society started out as protests such as this. As for the timing being bad as people are preparing for war, if you believe that this IS the mistake, then it is the BEST time to protest (before it happens). So, rather than deem it inappropriate, I have to admire her courage in doing what she believes, especially considering all the trouble she has brought upon herself since others started objecting.



To ensure that this post on topic, I include the following:

Boy, that HHH sure does suck.
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3538 days
Last activity: 1958 days
#22 Posted on
Click Here (mville.edu) Toni Smith school bio/stats page

Toni Smith favorite quote "If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything."... "It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber."

Smart girl.

Glad to see the majority here are behind her.

And what a great military hero, jumping onto the court and trying to intimidate a 20 year old girl. I wonder if he knows the flag he shoved in her face represents "Freedom of Expression".





Was mentioned Three times, 3X, 3X. In the "Great Wieners" thread!
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1218 days
Last activity: 1015 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    "It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.

I love these types that don't stop and think about the complete lack of demand for school funding once we've been overrun by some foreign army...

(edited by Grimis on 1.3.03 1025)


There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.
- Theodore Roosevelt, Ocotber 12, 1915
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 120 days
Last activity: 43 days
#24 Posted on
She is expressing free speech and action. Others are expressing free speech and action, both in disagreement and support. What's the big deal?

Lot of this stuff going on is typical of sports anyway. There are always fans antics. When I was in highschool, we used to either turn our backs, or break out newspapers to read while our rival was introduced. We had chants for teams and players. This is the kind of thing that happens in sports. So the way to take jabs at her is through the flag thing, what's the difference?

Non-story.
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2779 days
Last activity: 2621 days
AIM:  
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
I'll support her right to protest, but the last thing she is is a "smart girl."

You mock the Vietnam vet in the story pretty freely, Slasher. Maybe it's easier to understand the feelings of some airhead college kid than it is to understand the feelings of a man who has likely faced death and worse in the name of his country. Surely this sheltered middle class girl has more legitimate reasons for what she says than this silly "war hero," eh?

And I, too, will rejoice when our military needs to hold bake sales. Then the world's greatest powers will be North Korea (its army is 1 million strong) and China. Surely that will be a great day for freedom!



"... I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass..."

Pedro Martinez
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 147 days
Last activity: 147 days
#26 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
      "It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.

    I love these types that don't stop and think about the complete lack of demand for school funding once we've been overrun by some foreign army...

    (edited by Grimis on 1.3.03 1025)




#1 problem with politics in America: There is no in-between.

People are either convinced that our schools should be underfunded to keep our military as the best in ther world, or they'd rather slash defence and boost education. Could these two positions meet each other halfway? Apparently, not in this lifetime...

-Jag



No matter how obvious the trap, you can't complete the game unless you fall into it.
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1264 days
Last activity: 30 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#27 Posted on
???
No one says that we have to fund the military at the expense of the schools? Besides.. the military is the responsibility of the federal government to fund, schools are the responsibility of state and local governments to fund. So the money is not even coming out of the same chest.

So why does having a strong and well equipped military mean we have poor and under=equipped schools? I would rather have both a strong military and effective schools, and do so by making the government be far more efficient in its spending. There is more than enough resources out there for both.



I got banned for sticking up for Michael Jackson. Damn that's funny...

Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1218 days
Last activity: 1015 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    People are either convinced that our schools should be underfunded to keep our military as the best in ther world, or they'd rather slash defence and boost education. Could these two positions meet each other halfway? Apparently, not in this lifetime...

Sure...cut federal welfare programs, eliminate the Department of Education, then lower taxes and allow the states to spend more on Education.



There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.
- Theodore Roosevelt, Ocotber 12, 1915
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 31 days
Last activity: 31 days
#29 Posted on
'And what a great military hero, jumping onto the court and trying to intimidate a 20 year old girl. I wonder if he knows the flag he shoved in her face represents "Freedom of Expression".'"

And I wonder if that silly little girl knows that the 7 red stripes she turns her back on represent the blood and the lives of men and women like that veteran who've bled and died for this country and people like her. And people wonder why Vets get mad when America haters piss all over the flag?



'But if one is struck by me only a little, that is far different, the stroke is a sharp thing and suddenly lays him lifeless, and that man's wife goes with cheeks torn in lamentation, and his children are fatherless, while he, staining the soil with his red blood, rots away, and there are more birds than women swarming about him.' Diomedes, The Iliad of Homer

Maiden RULES!!!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1264 days
Last activity: 30 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#30 Posted on
I do love the circular nature of her protest- She is protesting the United States, which is represented by the flag, which she turns her back on. The First Ammendment guarantees her the right to do this. The Flag also represents the last where her first ammendment rights are guaranteed as well, so in essense, she is proesting the right to do what she is doing.

My earlier comment still holds true- I support her in what she does, I just feel it is misguided, especially given this fact...




dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 55 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#31 Posted on

    Originally posted by Bizzle Izzle
    'And what a great military hero, jumping onto the court and trying to intimidate a 20 year old girl. I wonder if he knows the flag he shoved in her face represents "Freedom of Expression".'"

    And I wonder if that silly little girl knows that the 7 red stripes she turns her back on represent the blood and the lives of men and women like that veteran who've bled and died for this country and people like her. And people wonder why Vets get mad when America haters piss all over the flag?



Its a bit of a leap from turning your back on a flag to 'pissing all over it'. The 'silly little girl' was making a pretty understated protest against the current administrations policy regarding the war on Iraq.

You think that means that she's insulting veterans of all wars gone by by association? I am well aware (or as aware as anyone of my generation can be) of what many war vets went through but frankly intimidating anyone who does not acknowledge the flag or doesn't sing the national anthem is ridiculous.

Nonetheless, I'm sure this gentlemans attempts to force his views on her made her realise what a wonderful democracy the flag represents.



"You dont appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older. Little things like being spanked every day by a middle aged woman: stuff you'd pay good money for these days."


One time undisputed Wiener of the day 2.11.02
The Masked Hungarian
Pickled pork








Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

Since last post: 3338 days
Last activity: 3338 days
AIM:  
#32 Posted on
My only problem with this "silent protest" is that she is doing it for the attention. How about just staying inside the locker room while the anthem is playing and then walking out when its over? But then the attention and focus wouldn't be on her then would it?

I have no problem with people expressing their opinion but I DO have a problem with the need for publicity.
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 55 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#33 Posted on

    Originally posted by The Masked Hungarian
    My only problem with this "silent protest" is that she is doing it for the attention. How about just staying inside the locker room while the anthem is playing and then walking out when its over? But then the attention and focus wouldn't be on her then would it?

    I have no problem with people expressing their opinion but I DO have a problem with the need for publicity.



Isnt the whole point of a protest that it gets your views discussed in public. Otherwise youre just holding a point of view but not really doing anything about it. Granted you'll offend less people, but you'll also get a whole lot less done.



"You dont appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older. Little things like being spanked every day by a middle aged woman: stuff you'd pay good money for these days."


One time undisputed Wiener of the day 2.11.02
calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 509 days
Last activity: 3 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by dMr
    Isnt the whole point of a protest that it gets your views discussed in public. Otherwise youre just holding a point of view but not really doing anything about it. Granted you'll offend less people, but you'll also get a whole lot less done.


My one problem I have with this girl is that she is doing this with the uniform of her school on. When you are playing for a team or working for a company you do forfeit some of your rights to free speech. If the school asks her to stop (I know they will not) she should stop or be kicked off the team.
drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#35 Posted on

    Originally posted by calvinh0560

      Originally posted by dMr
      Isnt the whole point of a protest that it gets your views discussed in public. Otherwise youre just holding a point of view but not really doing anything about it. Granted you'll offend less people, but you'll also get a whole lot less done.


    My one problem I have with this girl is that she is doing this with the uniform of her school on. When you are playing for a team or working for a company you do forfeit some of your rights to free speech. If the school asks her to stop (I know they will not) she should stop or be kicked off the team.



I think that the symbolism of doing it in your school's uniform kinda gets outweighed by the rest of the team facing the flag, the school's administration saying she's free to do that, etc. You only really forfeit your rights to free speech if the company/team asks you to, and it looks like Manhattanville isn't doing that. It's fine with them, so it's fine with me that she's doing it in her team's uniform. If they ask her to stop, though, then yes, she should.


    Originally posted by Bizzle Izzle
    'And what a great military hero, jumping onto the court and trying to intimidate a 20 year old girl. I wonder if he knows the flag he shoved in her face represents "Freedom of Expression".'"

    And I wonder if that silly little girl knows that the 7 red stripes she turns her back on represent the blood and the lives of men and women like that veteran who've bled and died for this country and people like her. And people wonder why Vets get mad when America haters piss all over the flag?



In her statement about why she does this, she did acknowledge that she respects vets for giving their lives to build this nation up. Besides, she's questioning the administration, which I'm sure plenty of Vietnam vets did, as well as the people who thought there was no good reason for that war. She's got foes out there, but she also has supporters in the same camp.



Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of Bullitt:

"NOTHING'S funnier than midget porn."
Leroy
Andouille








Since: 7.2.02
From: Huntington, NY

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 22 min.
#36 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
      "It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.

    I love these types that don't stop and think about the complete lack of demand for school funding once we've been overrun by some foreign army...

    (edited by Grimis on 1.3.03 1025)

Yeah, because there have been SO many attempts by foriegn armies to overthrow our government. I can almost count them on two fingers.



"It's hard to be a prophet and still make a profit."
- Da Bush Babees
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1264 days
Last activity: 30 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#37 Posted on
In all seriousness Leroy- the reason the number is so low is BECAUSE of our military. Who is going to commit the forces to attack us when they would get their asses handed to them here, while our troops abroad were pounding away on them at home?

Our strong military keeps us SAFE from these invaders. Just because no country has been really stupid enough to try and attack us recently does not mean that you scrap the whole thing...

Hmm, and as far as the number, I count Germany, Japan, Mexico, and England... not exactly a large number but certainly more than 2.... And you MIGHT count the USSR, though they did not attempt to overrun US with military strength- the Cold War relied heavily on strength of armed forces, however...




astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 2529 days
Last activity: 2496 days
AIM:  
#38 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    In all seriousness Leroy- the reason the number is so low is BECAUSE of our military. Who is going to commit the forces to attack us when they would get their asses handed to them here, while our troops abroad were pounding away on them at home?

    Our strong military keeps us SAFE from these invaders. Just because no country has been really stupid enough to try and attack us recently does not mean that you scrap the whole thing...

    Hmm, and as far as the number, I count Germany, Japan, Mexico, and England... not exactly a large number but certainly more than 2.... And you MIGHT count the USSR, though they did not attempt to overrun US with military strength- the Cold War relied heavily on strength of armed forces, however...



We were at war with Germany (a few times), but they never launched an attack upon our soil. Not to say they never would have, but they never did. Historians argue whether Japan would have continued an assault against us. Many view Pearl Harbor as a message to stay out of the Pacific and a show of power. Of course, they didn't know how pissed we'd be...or not to let a good deal of our fleet survive. As far as I'm concerned, Mexico was perfectly justified in attacking us after we lied and manipulated to steal Texas from them and the other "Manifest Destiny" bullshit we pulled. You also left out Wienerville's favorite whipping boys, the French.

I don't want to see our military weaken, but I would like it to be more cost effective. How much are toilet seats and screwdrivers again?

It also amazes me to see such a little display get such a huge response. Why aren't these vets at the much bigger protests instead of terrorizing a young woman making a singular, silent protest?



Ph-nglui mgwl'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 47 days
Last activity: 7 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87

    Originally posted by vsp
    I'm inferring that she meant that she wasn't doing it to intentionally attract attention. She wasn't burning a flag at center court, flipping the bird at the flag, or loudly reciting variations on Iron Sheik riffs (IRAQ - NUMBER ONE! TONI SMITH - NUMBER ONE! AMERICA - HAAAACK - PTOOOOIE!), for example.

    Instead, she turned away from the flag and stood quietly until the anthem was over and it was time to play basketball. That's not what I would call confrontational or theatrical (or, IMHO, even inappropriate) behavior. The fact that so many people felt personally threatened by this, and that it's subsequently blown up to national-news proportions, is more saddening than amusing on the whole.

Two points:
1. If she really didn't want to get noticed, she would have done what she wanted to do outside of the public forum - it is in public, and is a non-verbal statement. If I go to the store and turn my back to the french fries in the frozen food aisle because I hate France, surely I should realize that a) someone might see me; b) someone might ask me WTF I am doing. If I want to make that same protest privately for my own self-respect and conscience, I will simply either not buy fries, stay away from pro-France rallies, or walk through New Orleans reciting "I HATE FRANCE" in my head to myself, since it is for my self-respect, and I don't need to share that view. The fact that she has been doing it for however long and no one has noticed is irrelevant (I mean, it's not like she is on the starting UConn women's team or another major program). A college basketball game is a public place.

2. If you are indeed making a public statement, America gives you the right to make it, no matter how anyone else feels about it. On the same note, anyone else has the same right to yell "Get out of the country", "USA USA", or whatever nonsense they want to. Does someone have a right to trespass and run onto the court? Nope. But people do have the right to be as pissed off as they want at her. When you have an opinion and share it with another person, you have to be prepared for a disagreement, friendly or bloody.

BTW, I love the Iron Sheik's bit, one of my favorites...



"You know Monsoon, I am impressed, and I don't impress easy"
-Jesse "The Body" Ventura

"Bob Ryder sucks" - Me.
calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 509 days
Last activity: 3 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Does anyone know if this girl is receiving federal financial ad at all to go to this school?
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 Next
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 NextThread ahead: John Brady Kiesling
Next thread: War: What Is It Good For? . . . . $300!
Previous thread: You know what's funny about this whole Iraq thing...
(2270 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
No. If he believes it he, like myself, is an old school Dem who believes in making it possible through the actions of the Fed's to provide people with the tools to succeed and contribute.
The W - Current Events & Politics - Basketball player's war protest (Page 2)Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.147 seconds.