As weird as this may sound. I really want to like Barry Bonds. I want to cheer for him and for his achievements. I want to watch him surpass Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron and say "Wow, I am so lucky to witness this."
BUT I CAN'T...
I just can't. Not only is he a cheat, but he really is an obnoxious, egotistical jerk. Always has been, always will be. I can't root for him for that.
I know that I am not breaking any new ground here, but I wanted to get this off my chest.
37? These are 34s...and they're loose. I gotta live with 37?
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.
"I know, I know you are saying "sure there was some bad calls, but Jake Gyllenhaal obviously dropped too many easy catches and Ang Lee had some horrible clock management at the end of each half!"" (krakken2000)
Originally posted by BullittWow...comparing Bonds to Hitler?
Bit of a stretch there, don't ya think?
I'm going with "trying to set the Godwin's Law land-speed record".
What's worse than him (purportedly) juicing and being a dick? Bonds On Bonds. I do hope it's tanking.
Originally posted by wmatisticYou may be the only person left in America silly enough to think he didn't use steroids. The evidence is there, you just haven't done enough looking.
I honestly don't care if he did or not...just show me the proof in the form of a positive test before we start slapping asterisks on everything.
Originally posted by wmatisticYou may be the only person left in America silly enough to think he didn't use steroids. The evidence is there, you just haven't done enough looking.
I couldn't resist the chance to do the two things I'm best at: Splitting hairs and being snide.
Bullitt is the only person left in Canada silly enough to think Bonds didn't use steroids.
I think he used. I can't prove it, but I can prove he's a self-made victim, a guy who couldn't wait to don the mantle of "Scapegoat", and a guy who plays the race card with a questionable argument at best.
And, as mentioned, a dick. I truly believe in my heart that we'd be much more willing to treat this with respect if he weren't a dick.
I've watched "Bonds on Bonds". I wouldn't have, but it was work-related. It was almost compelling, but then he knocked on Andy Van Slyke. What a dick.
He's going to surpass an amazing mark in the baseball, and the Bay Area is about the only place that's happy for him. As the great philosopher Balki Bartokomous said, a man who makes his cake will have to lie in it.
Originally posted by wmatisticYou may be the only person left in America silly enough to think he didn't use steroids. The evidence is there, you just haven't done enough looking.
I honestly don't care if he did or not...just show me the proof in the form of a positive test before we start slapping asterisks on everything.
You are unfamiliar with Bonds' testimony before the grand jury in the BALCO case and his admitting taking the cream and the clear? Is there nothing short of Bonds' urine that will convince you that when a 30+ year old man changes his body type that drastically and goes on an historic home run streak something might not be on the up and up?
Who cares if Bonds is a jackass? Babe Ruth was too. He was just as full of himself as Bonds and he showed up people. Calling his shot for some reason is one of the greatest moments in baseball history, but it was probably the biggest display of showing up another player in the history of baseball, which is supposed to be a big no no in baseball, but for Ruth it's ok. You know if Bonds called his shot, which he could at one point, people would've torn him a new one every day for the rest of his career. I could care less if Bonds passes Ruth.
(edited by Quezzy on 13.5.06 1402) Lance's Response:
Originally posted by wmatisticYou may be the only person left in America silly enough to think he didn't use steroids. The evidence is there, you just haven't done enough looking.
I honestly don't care if he did or not...just show me the proof in the form of a positive test before we start slapping asterisks on everything.
Again you haven't researched enough if you are asking for a positive test. The cheaters were light years ahead of the testers. Tons of guys were using and there was little chance they would get caught because the testers didn't have a clue what to look for and Barry for instance knew what days he would be tested in advance. So to say you need a test is being ignorant of just how bad the situation was.
All the evidence has been laid out and they do even have test results that Balco did to check his levels from time to time. It's all sealed and will likely remain so, but if you read Game of Shadows you'll learn most of it anyway.
It is a fact, he used steroids. You're behaving like I used to a few years back when I hadn't actually done any reading on Pete Rose and his gambling problem. I would say I doubted he did it and I didn't see proof. Then some people told me how stupid I was being and that I just wasn't looking. So I did some reading, and yep sure enough he was a rat bastard.
My advice is stop posting until you've done the same because you don't understand the situation yet.
Wow...nothing beats being told off for simply having an opinion!
I understand the situation, Chief. I just don't care if he did or did not take steroids...if there was a policy on it at the time, then so be it. Suspend him when/if he was using...but as no such policy existed in MLB at the time, then I don't care.
I could care less if he's a jackass...that doesn't change the fact that we MAY be able to see a piece of history, however tainted that may be in your all-seeing, judgmental attitude.
Save your righteous indignation for something worthwhile.
Originally posted by BullittWow...nothing beats being told off for simply having an opinion!
I understand the situation, Chief. I just don't care if he did or did not take steroids...if there was a policy on it at the time, then so be it. Suspend him when/if he was using...but as no such policy existed in MLB at the time, then I don't care.
I could care less if he's a jackass...that doesn't change the fact that we MAY be able to see a piece of history, however tainted that may be in your all-seeing, judgmental attitude.
Save your righteous indignation for something worthwhile.
Hey there, guess what. There was a rule in place in baseball at the time that said no illegal drugs. Steroids were and are in that category, so again with the not knowing enough about the situation. I understand you have an opinion and you are entitled to have it. Unfortunatly you appear to not have done any actual research to get to that opinion and thus I think you're doing yourself a disservice.
I'm not trying to be a jerk or start a flame war, I'm just saying six months ago I was right there with you. Didn't care, didn't think it was a big deal anyway. Now that I actually know what went on, yes I'm ticked off and want the man out of baseball. He deserves none of our attention for what he is doing now because of what he did to get here.
That said, I will now leave you be. I've gotten what I wanted to say off my chest, you can do or believe whatever you like and won't hear a word more from me.
Originally posted by BullittWow...nothing beats being told off for simply having an opinion!
I understand the situation, Chief. I just don't care if he did or did not take steroids...if there was a policy on it at the time, then so be it. Suspend him when/if he was using...but as no such policy existed in MLB at the time, then I don't care.
I could care less if he's a jackass...that doesn't change the fact that we MAY be able to see a piece of history, however tainted that may be in your all-seeing, judgmental attitude.
Save your righteous indignation for something worthwhile.
Hey there, guess what. There was a rule in place in baseball at the time that said no illegal drugs. Steroids were and are in that category, so again with the not knowing enough about the situation. I understand you have an opinion and you are entitled to have it. Unfortunatly you appear to not have done any actual research to get to that opinion and thus I think you're doing yourself a disservice.
I'm not trying to be a jerk or start a flame war, I'm just saying six months ago I was right there with you. Didn't care, didn't think it was a big deal anyway. Now that I actually know what went on, yes I'm ticked off and want the man out of baseball. He deserves none of our attention for what he is doing now because of what he did to get here.
That said, I will now leave you be. I've gotten what I wanted to say off my chest, you can do or believe whatever you like and won't hear a word more from me.
(edited by wmatistic on 13.5.06 1821)
I don't understand why Bonds takes *all* the hatred for the steroid mess. He's the face of it because of the records he's setting or challenging, but do you want raffy Palmeiro "out of baseball?" How about the minor leaguers or no-names like Alex Sanchez? If you think doing steroids deserves a life ban or whatever you seem to be advocating, why only Bonds?Because he's an asshole *and* did steroids *and* is challenging two of the game's most heroic figures, going after perhaps the most idolized record in sports?
I'm no Bonds apologist. The man is an arrogant, mean-spirited, ignorant piece of shit. But the steroids don't make me hate him any more than they make me hate any other player.
I don't think anyone wants just Bonds to be punished for steroid use, but he is the most visible offender and, as you said, arrogant, mean-spirited, etc. Palmeiro pretty much got what he deserved from the steroid ordeal by going from celebrating his 3,000th hit and wrapping up a HOF career to being a pariah in a matter of weeks. It's hard to get worked up about a guy like Sanchez who has six career homeruns. It's almost funny when a guy like that is found to be on "performance enhancers".
I guess I'm leaving out stuff because I've posted it before in other threads. But no, I don't want just Bonds out of baseball. Any of them that went to the lengths he went that we find the evidence we have on him should be out. Granted we just have a lot more evidence against him because of Balco, and it's easy to make him the focal point.
Believe me I've got a lot of hatred lately for the track people(as I said in another recent thread) and many ballplayers who I used to love. Bonds is the main one left that we have hard evidence on though and who continues to lie. Honestly if he were to come out and say yes I did it and I'm sorry and MEAN it then I would someday forgive him. Even though we had to catch him for it to happen it would be nice to see. Would still ban him for ten years, but he would get back in. The longer he waits, the less I'll care when he does it. Just ask Pete Rose how well that works.
Originally posted by BigSteveYou are unfamiliar with Bonds' testimony before the grand jury in the BALCO case and his admitting taking the cream and the clear? Is there nothing short of Bonds' urine that will convince you that when a 30+ year old man changes his body type that drastically and goes on an historic home run streak something might not be on the up and up?
First of all, if Bonds used steroids _ maybe he did, maybe he didn't _ he didn't break the rules of Major League Baseball. That's a MUCH bigger issue than what Bonds, or Sosa, or McGwire, or Palmeiro or anybody else did. MLB's trying to close the barn door after the horse has not only left, but been made into glue.
Secondly, if you look at Bonds' year-by-year numbers, he had one year _ 2001, when he hit 73 _ that was way out of whack with the rest of his years. In other words, much like Roger Maris. (Bonds' highest total other than the record-breaking year: 49, a difference of 24. Maris' highest total other than the record-breaking year: 39, a difference of 22.)
Now, I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I don't care if Barry Bonds was using steroids, HGH and horse tranquilizers. It doesn't change the fact that he's always been a PHENOMENALLY good player. And saying that Bonds is the problem completely misses the point. The fact that MLB has looked the other way for years _ whether it be amphetamines, steroids or whatever _ has enabled the situation it finds itself in now.
Gaylord Perry's in the Hall of Fame. Where's the outrage? Steve Howe was reinstated SEVEN times. Where's the outrage? It's easy to pile on Bonds for being a cheat. But he's far from the first and far from the last.
Originally posted by BigSteveYou are unfamiliar with Bonds' testimony before the grand jury in the BALCO case and his admitting taking the cream and the clear? Is there nothing short of Bonds' urine that will convince you that when a 30+ year old man changes his body type that drastically and goes on an historic home run streak something might not be on the up and up?
First of all, if Bonds used steroids _ maybe he did, maybe he didn't _ he didn't break the rules of Major League Baseball. That's a MUCH bigger issue than what Bonds, or Sosa, or McGwire, or Palmeiro or anybody else did. MLB's trying to close the barn door after the horse has not only left, but been made into glue.
I really don't know how many times people will have to post this before this misconception stops. Hell I posted it just a few hours ago and yet here we go again:
Yes MLB did have a rule against illegal drugs, which includes steroids, in place before Bonds broke any records. They may not have been testing, but the rule was there. So if they now have proof that he was breaking the rules for years, yes he should be in huge trouble.
No one is saying MLB gets a pass here. Not at all. They screwed up and have to deal with this mess and deserve to be railed on for it. And they have been. Hell Congress called them to task, the President called them out. The problem is we only had evidence on a small number of guys, and most of them aren't playing anymore. Bonds is the main one left so he gets the most attention. I'm not saying he's THE problem, I'm saying he's a cheater who got caught and deserves to pay for it.
However I will say that if it comes out tomorrow that some big names I like have been using, I will hate them just as much as I do Bonds. I don't care if it's Chris Carpenter or Albert Pujols, at this point I'm ticked at these people working almost as hard to cheat as they do to actually play baseball and getting away with it. No I don't think either of them did anything, just using examples of people on my favorite team that I like.
Just because MLB screwed up doesn't mean the players get a free pass. They didn't have to take advantage of the situation, and they knew it was wrong to begin with.
Here's the bottom line for me with Barry Bonds: Say it was illegal or immoral or perfectly fine or whatever, but the man has conducted himself in such a way for many years that he's about to pass Babe F'n Ruth on the all-time home run list, and I couldn't care less.
This SHOULD be an event we're all planning our evenings around, trying to make sure we can witness history in the making. For a LOT of people, it just isn't.
"You know what you need? Some new quotes in your sig. Yeah, I said it." -- DJFrostyFreeze
Well whoever it was doesn't matter now, because the time has come and passed and Andrus Jones is still a Brave. Although it's being said Andruw Jones is very pissed, especially since they didn't even tell him he was being put on waivers.
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