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The W - Baseball - Barry Bonds Available at MLB Minimum Salary
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Downtown Bookie
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Since: 7.4.02
From: The Inner City, Now Living In The Country

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.79
Before I begin, I realize that what I'm suggesting won't be popular with most fans of my team. I don't expect what I'm proposing to be well received. Even if it works out as well as I believe it can, what I'm recommending will still be criticized by a great number of people. But, you know what? Too bad! I'm a fan, and I want my team to win.

As I write this, my team, my New York Mets, are 38-39 for the season. One game below .500, and four games out of first place. The man they thought would be their left fielder this season has played a grand total of fifteen games, and according to this article (sportingnews.com) may not be back at all this season.

The Mets attempted to replace Alou with Angel Pagan. Pagan is now on the disabled list. With a shoulder injury. Which according to this article (nj.com) may require surgery, as Pagan "is still not capable of swinging from the right side."

The Mets current options in left field include Marlon Anderson (currently batting .198), Endy Chavez (.233 BA, .280 On Base Percentage) and Fernando Tatis (.288 On Base Percentage).

Now, suppose I told you that the Mets left fielder could be a man who batted .276 last year, with a .480 OBP with a Slugging Average of .565? And what if I told you that the Mets could sign this left fielder for the Major League minimum salary? Because according to this article (sports.espn.go.com) the major league career home run leader has offered his services to all thirty major league teams for the major league minimum salary. Not only that, but, according to the article, he "would play for free - offering to donate whatever salary he receives to purchase tickets for children."

Does he come with baggage? You betcha! Is there a potential downside? Certainly. But what would the potential downside be? That Bonds would hit as poorly as the current Mets left fielders? That he would attract unfavorable media attention to a team that plays in the heart of New York City? That he would sully the good name of the New York Mets, and destroy the pristine reputation of the team, which was so clearly on display during their recent managerial change?

I'll say it again. I'm a fan. I want my team to win. Playing Barry Bonds in left field instead of Marlon Anderson/Endy Chavez/Fernando Tatis improves my team's chances of winning. By a lot. If it was within my power, I would do it yesterday.

But it's not. Because I'm just a fan. Who wants to win.




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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.60
I wanted the Red Sox to sign Bonds when David Ortiz got hurt, and every time Coco Crisp swings at the first pitch and pops out I grit my teeth. I think either all 30 teams are mistaken, and think that the fans will be turned away by Bonds more than they'll be drawn in by the fact that he makes a team better, or they've just all decided that he's not going to play Major League baseball anymore.



PeterStork
Sujuk








Since: 25.1.02
From: Chicagoland with Hoosiers, or "The Region"

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.48
    Originally posted by Downtown Bookie
    I'll say it again. I'm a fan. I want my team to win. Playing Barry Bonds in left field instead of Marlon Anderson/Endy Chavez/Fernando Tatis improves my team's chances of winning. By a lot. If it was within my power, I would do it yesterday.


I think half your team's problem is that they have a lot of age and no chemistry. Adding a senior citizen (in baseball years) with more issues than National Geographic is not going to help them.

The way to win is to stop trying to build an All-Star team.



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spf
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Since: 2.1.02
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
As a logical fan who wants to win, I recognize my White Sox would be better off with Bonds in the lineup.

I also recognize that I know at least 1,000 fans, many of them season ticket holders, who have made clear they would cease going to games if the Sox were to sign Bonds. Personally, I cheer for the laundry, but I know the effect that increased winning would have would likely be offset by the negative backlash.

I wonder if TB would be a good fit for him. They have no fans to turn off as is, but maybe getting to the playoffs would bring in some fans who wouldn't care about Bonds.



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Super Shane Spear
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.62
My left-fielder is a whiny, .200 batting, first base sliding, outfield flipping, hammy hurting, Bill Engvall quoting, infield pop-up trademarking, waaaay overpaid and overrated goof of a man.

I'll still take him over Bonds.
Quezzy
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Since: 6.1.02
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.86
I don't have a problem with the Mets signing Barry Bonds. The way I figure it Bonds either comes in and plays better than the current left fielders and they get a boost in offense. They need SOMEBODY batting behind Carlos Beltran and Bonds can't be worse than Delgado. If he even plays half as good as he can then Reyes/Church/Wright/Beltran/Bonds is a pretty good lineup.

If Bonds doesn't work then oh well. I figure Minaya and Manuel would then be gone and that's probably a good thing too. Then say goodbye to Bonds and Delgado and go after Teixeira.

Is Bonds going to get a lot of attention? Yeah, less attention on Manuel is good though. I think Beltran and Reyes don't like much attention, or at least negative attention too, so they wouldn't have to worry as much.

Edit: Oh wait! The Mets signed Andy Phillips! Forget Bonds now! The Mets are going to the World Series!

(edited by Quezzy on 26.6.08 1101)


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THAT IS AWESOME!
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.82
The last thing the Mets need is the Bonds circus to come to town.

He's been unofficially black balled and will play with a MLB team again.
supersalvadoran
Landjager








Since: 10.1.08
From: westbury, new york

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.23
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    The last thing the Mets need is the Bonds circus to come to town.




Agreed. We already have a lot of prima donna players like Reyes who think they're above the team at times. Adding Bonds to the mix wouldn't help in fixing the chemistry because he's never been a team player.

One thing people get confused about Bonds: they think that because he's a great hitter, he'll make a difference in getting to the playoffs and beyond. Bonds has only one world series apperance in 20+ years and a postseason batting avg. that is 50 or so points below his regular season avg. Frankly, I would rather have us try to go after Bernie Williams, who I know hasn't played in nearly 2 years, but isn't still retired. At least he's a proven winner. It's the same reason I would choose Joe Dimaggio over Ted Williams, no matter how much better Williams was as a hitter.
Joseph Ryder
Head cheese








Since: 19.3.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by supersalvadoran
    Agreed. We already have a lot of prima donna players like Reyes who think they're above the team at times. Adding Bonds to the mix wouldn't help in fixing the chemistry because he's never been a team player.

"Team player"...this isn't basketball or football. You may as well complain that Roger Federer isn't a team player. Bonds' job would be to face a pitcher from the opposing team and try his best to get on base. He won't be throwing alley-oops to David Wright, or lead blocking for Carlos Beltran. If he's in the field he might have to call off a CF or a SS occasionally (NL only), and when on the bases, he might have to break up a DP. Other that his duties would be solely to mash the ball. In a very selfish and prima donna way. For the league minimum.

    Originally posted by supersalvadoran
    One thing people get confused about Bonds: they think that because he's a great hitter, he'll make a difference in getting to the playoffs and beyond. Bonds has only one world series apperance in 20+ years and a postseason batting avg. that is 50 or so points below his regular season avg. Frankly, I would rather have us try to go after Bernie Williams, who I know hasn't played in nearly 2 years, but isn't still retired.

Wanna play against me in Strat?

Please, I hope for your sake your team does pick up Bernie Williams. And enjoy the 2nd half if that happens. And all the snarky jokes the guys on Sportcenter everyone in the world will make. Maybe you guys can trade for David Eckstein sometime before the end of the season. I hear he's a winner, and he's only a couple million more expensive than Bonds! If only Bonds didn't give up 6 runs in the final two innings of Game 6 of the 2002 World Series...he'd be a winner too.

And for the record:

Bar-roid's career postseason OPS: .936
Bar-roid's career World Series OPS: 1.944

Bernie Williams' career postseason OPS: .851 (BA 22 points below his career mark!!)
Bernie Williams' career World Series OPS: .677 (BA 89 points below his career mark!!)



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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.04
Maybe Rickey Henderson is still available?

(edited by Guru Zim on 26.6.08 1346)



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Since: 2.1.02
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Maybe Rickey Henderson is still available?

    (edited by Guru Zim on 26.6.08 1346)

Julio Franco is waiting by the phone.



2007 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
supersalvadoran
Landjager








Since: 10.1.08
From: westbury, new york

Since last post: 7 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.23
    Originally posted by Joseph Ryder
    "Team player"...this isn't basketball or football. You may as well complain that Roger Federer isn't a team player. Bonds' job would be to face a pitcher from the opposing team and try his best to get on base. He won't be throwing alley-oops to David Wright, or lead blocking for Carlos Beltran. If he's in the field he might have to call off a CF or a SS occasionally (NL only), and when on the bases, he might have to break up a DP. Other that his duties would be solely to mash the ball. In a very selfish and prima donna way. For the league minimum.


Damn, I think you're taking way too much offense to this. Ok, let's clarify: I would rather have Bernie than Barry because he's shown he's capable of winning a world series or two while Barry has no rings to show for it. That's not to say Bernie's the better player or even that I really want Bernie at all; obiviously it's been a while and he wouldn't be anywhere near the shape he once was. but if we're going to go down that road of stupid speculation, you might as well get someone who benefits your team better and in all honestly, Bonds doesn't. I think he's a great hitter and I really don't care about the roid issue anymore to hold it against him. My thing is that he's always done his own things apart from the team, which is not wrong but is not what a team like the Mets need. If we're going to add a player who hasn't played all season in the middle of a playoff race (assuming we're still in it), I want it to be someone who will have no problems doing whatever the team asks of him so that the team can win. I don't think Bonds will be willing to sacrifice certain things as easily as others might be in order help the Mets push. Yeah, it isn't basketball or football, but it is still a *TEAM* sport and it's not like tennis or golf where Bonds relys on himself and only himself: he has to work with eight other teammates to win a game. He can be a key player, but not the only one.

    Originally posted by Joseph Ryder
    Wanna play against me in Strat?

    Please, I hope for your sake your team does pick up Bernie Williams. And enjoy the 2nd half if that happens. And all the snarky jokes the guys on Sportcenter everyone in the world will make. Maybe you guys can trade for David Eckstein sometime before the end of the season. I hear he's a winner, and he's only a couple million more expensive than Bonds! If only Bonds didn't give up 6 runs in the final two innings of Game 6 of the 2002 World Series...he'd be a winner too.

    And for the record:

    Bar-roid's career postseason OPS: .936
    Bar-roid's career World Series OPS: 1.944

    Bernie Williams' career postseason OPS: .851 (BA 22 points below his career mark!!)
    Bernie Williams' career World Series OPS: .677 (BA 89 points below his career mark!!)


As far as stats go, I'm not saying that Bernie is the better overall player. I'm just pointing out that he has the better stats in the postseason than Bonds does. It's the simple truth.

From baseball-reference.com:

Bernie postseason series record: 17-8
Barry postseason series record: 2-7

Bernie postseason batting avg.: .275
Barry postseason batting avg.: .245

Bernie runs produced: 83 runs and 80 RBI in 121 games, avg. out to 1.35 runs produced a game.
Barry runs produced: 33 runs and 24 RBI in 48 games, avg. out to 1.19 runs produced a game.

And the most inmportant stat of all:

Bernie world series wins: 4
Barry world series wins: 0

Look, Barry Bonds is one of the greatest players of all time. But I'm not looking for the greatest player of all time. I'm looking for the player who will get my team to the world series and win it all. That's why I said Bernie is more desireable IMO and why I brought out the Williams/ Dimaggio comparision. For all the talk at his time that he was the greatest hitter ever, Williams only got to the WS once and lost, while Dimaggio got there 10 times and won 9 of them. That's why even though Mike Piazza has much better career stats then Gary Carter, I will always choose Carter as my mets catcher. That's no disrespect to Piazza, who is the best hitting catcher of all time, but he didn't win the world series, Carter did. As a fan of the team, I want my team to win more then I want a superstar. It doesn't matter if a Mets player broke the HR record in a season like McGwire or Bonds did: if the team misses the playoffs like McGwire's did in 98', then I more dissapointed in the team then I am happy for the player. My rooting interest is to have players who win; Bernie has and Bonds hasn't. That's all there is to it.

I understand he's your hero and all,but it's not like I insulted your mom or spit on you or anything. I'm just pointing out that adding a guy like Bonds with a less than steallar record in the playoffs and a bit of an ego into a clubhouse with other guys with questionable rec ords and attitudes wouldn't really help us much. It's just my opinion: deal with it.

P.S.: Be honest, if he ONLY wanted the league minimum, he would be been signed already. At least, I'm willing to bet you that he's asking to a lot of perks and incentives to jack the contract up a couple of mil. Not that he doesn't deserve it.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
I would've appreciated the Mariners signing Bonds two months ago, but now it's just too late. Also, our DH has an OPS+ of 59. FIFTY-NINE! So, I still think it would have been a good move.



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Since: 19.3.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by supersalvadoran
    Damn, I think you're taking way too much offense to this. Ok, let's clarify: I would rather have Bernie than Barry because he's shown he's capable of winning a world series or two while Barry has no rings to show for it. That's not to say Bernie's the better player or even that I really want Bernie at all; obiviously it's been a while and he wouldn't be anywhere near the shape he once was. but if we're going to go down that road of stupid speculation, you might as well get someone who benefits your team better and in all honestly, Bonds doesn't. I think he's a great hitter and I really don't care about the roid issue anymore to hold it against him. My thing is that he's always done his own things apart from the team, which is not wrong but is not what a team like the Mets need. If we're going to add a player who hasn't played all season in the middle of a playoff race (assuming we're still in it), I want it to be someone who will have no problems doing whatever the team asks of him so that the team can win. I don't think Bonds will be willing to sacrifice certain things as easily as others might be in order help the Mets push. Yeah, it isn't basketball or football, but it is still a *TEAM* sport and it's not like tennis or golf where Bonds relys on himself and only himself: he has to work with eight other teammates to win a game. He can be a key player, but not the only one.

Exactly...while each player basically plays individually, their contributions are culled amongst their teammates (at LEAST 8 others) and at the end of 9 innings, hopefully his team has scored more than the other team. I'm glad we agree on this.

What do you think the Mets are going to ask of Barry that he will refuse to do? Drop a bunt? Steal home? What will he need to sacrifice as easily as others? A paycheck? He's already agreed to that.

    Originally posted by supersalvadoran
    As far as stats go, I'm not saying that Bernie is the better overall player. I'm just pointing out that he has the better stats in the postseason than Bonds does. It's the simple truth.

    From baseball-reference.com:

    Bernie postseason series record: 17-8
    Barry postseason series record: 2-7

    Bernie postseason batting avg.: .275
    Barry postseason batting avg.: .245

    Bernie runs produced: 83 runs and 80 RBI in 121 games, avg. out to 1.35 runs produced a game.
    Barry runs produced: 33 runs and 24 RBI in 48 games, avg. out to 1.19 runs produced a game.

    And the most inmportant stat of all:

    Bernie world series wins: 4
    Barry world series wins: 0

Your problem here is that every stat you listed--aside from BA, and really, what's wrong with using OBP isntead of BA, let's give a guy credit for taking a walk and getting on base instead of simply ignoring the act--is contingent in some form on the TEAM'S contribution rather than simply the player's. Bernie Williams didn't go 17-8, his team did, of which he was lucky enough to be a member. Bernie Williams, unless he hit 80 HRs, drove in those runs partly because people were on base for him to drive in (and likewise, he scored because someone was nice enough to drive him home). I'm not saying Bonds is some example of postseason greatness, but you have to concede that with a few different rolls of the die, Bonds could have ended up on different teams in his career, perhaps put up even worse post-season stats, and still come away with 4 (or more) rings. In 2002, Barry arguably did more for his World Series team than any player in the history of the universe, but he still has people pointing to his "no rings" simply because a couple of jobber relievers couldn't protect a 5-run lead in Game 6. Are you contending that they would have won (or at least been more likely to win) if Bernie was patrolling LF instead?

    Originally posted by supersalvadoran
    But I'm not looking for the greatest player of all time. I'm looking for the player who will get my team to the world series and win it all. That's why I said Bernie is more desireable IMO and why I brought out the Williams/ Dimaggio comparision.

And it's my contention that Bernie is NOT more desirable; instead, for example, the 1998 Yankees are more desirable, a team for which Bernie Williams was fortunate enough to be a member.

    Originally posted by supersalvadoran
    P.S.: Be honest, if he ONLY wanted the league minimum, he would be been signed already. At least, I'm willing to bet you that he's asking to a lot of perks and incentives to jack the contract up a couple of mil. Not that he doesn't deserve it.

Why should I assume he'd already be signed by now? He's got no rings! Who'd want him?!

    Originally posted by ESPN
    Teams have shied away, not wanting to deal with the glare of attention Bonds would bring. The outfielder, who turns 44 on July 24, has been offered by Borris to all 30 teams for a prorated share of the $390,000 minimum.

    Borris said Bonds even would play for free -- offering to donate whatever salary he receives to purchase tickets for children.

    Link

Emphasis mine.

If you want it I'll let you have the final word.



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Eddie Famous
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

Charlie Silvera's teams won 6 world Series, Johnny Bench's won 2.

Which one would you rather have had on your team?

I would love to see Bonds on the Mets because I hate the Mets and it would be good to see them suffer through his being there. I hate them even more than I hate the cheating Padres.

(edited by Eddie Famous on 26.6.08 1610)


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supersalvadoran
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Since: 10.1.08
From: westbury, new york

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.23
We could on all night with this. My point, which I don't see why it is so difficult to accept, is that the Mets are better off with someone other than Bonds. You really think with a moody attitude like him would be comfortable with the NY media (who have ripped apart even class acts like Willie Randolph, who wasn't a great manager, but was a all-around good guy)? Don't you think he's just going to settle being just 'one of the guys' after years and years of being treated like a god in san fran? I doubt so.

Look, you obviously think of Bonds as the greatest player of all time, which I won't really argue with. I just don't understand the hostility towards me and your need to prove me wrong. I just believe in wanting players not who have dominated the leagues as much as those who have been participants in winning the titles for their teams. Bernie wasn't 'fortunate', he was instrumental in getting the Yanks those 4 ws rings. Yeah, he had plenty of good or great teammates with him, but he did more of his fair share in getting them there. I wouldn't call someone with a .300+ avg. who averaged 100+ runs and RBI during the 98-00 ws winning seasons as a hanger-on.

As for Eddie Famous, man did you miss the point. I'm talking about guys who won a world series against those who haven't. Besides, a quick check on baseball-reference.com shows that Silvera only actually played on one WS in 1949. So Bench is the more active participant anyway. I'm not asking for those who won more titles, but those who have won and were active & clutch players in winning. A better comparsion in my POV would be Bench against Carlton Fisk. To which I would want Bench. Or maybe George Brett over Don Mattingly. Mattingly may have had the better stats throughout the 80's, but Brett had the WS, which is what I want my team to accomplish. All the big stats don't mean a thing if we're going to end up third in division, fighting to get over .500 all season long.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.97
    Originally posted by spf
      Originally posted by Guru Zim
      Maybe Rickey Henderson is still available?

      (edited by Guru Zim on 26.6.08 1346)

    Julio Franco is waiting by the phone.




Captain Carl Everett is nearby playing for the Long Island Ducks.
Rickey Henderson's 'brilliant' coaching last year might have derailed Jose Reyes' career.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by supersalvadoran
    As for Eddie Famous, man did you miss the point. I'm talking about guys who won a world series against those who haven't..... All the big stats don't mean a thing if we're going to end up third in division, fighting to get over .500 all season long.


Ernie Banks or Dal Maxvill?



As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
OFFICIAL THREE-MONTH COUNT: 112 pounds on March 9, 2005
OFFICIAL SIX-MONTH COUNT: 142 pounds on June 8, 2005
OFFICIAL ONE YEAR COUNT: 187 pounds on December 7, 2005
As of 2/27/06: 202 pounds "I've lost a heavyweight"
As of 7/31/06: 224 pounds<
As of 10/31/07: Still 217 down!
As of 5/18/08: Still 217 down!
Now announcing for the NBWA and GAW television!
www.wdws.com home of DWS Sportsnight and downstate radio home of thecubsfan!
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Sujuk








Since: 25.1.02
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.48
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      Originally posted by supersalvadoran
      As for Eddie Famous, man did you miss the point. I'm talking about guys who won a world series against those who haven't..... All the big stats don't mean a thing if we're going to end up third in division, fighting to get over .500 all season long.


    Ernie Banks or Dal Maxvill?


Well, the latter went on to ruin the Cardinals from the late 80's until 1995 when Walt Jocketty came in to clean up his mess, so he forfeits all his rings.



exit 670 dot com | digital route 66
Corajudo
Frankfurter








Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

Since last post: 106 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
Originally posted by supersalvadoran
As for Eddie Famous, man did you miss the point. I'm talking about guys who won a world series against those who haven't..... All the big stats don't mean a thing if we're going to end up third in division, fighting to get over .500 all season long.

Joe Cronin or Frankie Crosetti?

Harmon Killebrew or Hank Bauer?

Juan Marichal or Johnny Murphy?

If Bonds puts up OPS >1.000, then the fans will cheer for him, and chemistry won't be an issue. Talent trumps chemistry. Witness the 1970s A's or the Yankees under Billy Martin or any number of other examples. I can't stand Bonds the person, but Bonds the baseball player is pretty amazing. Getting 200-250 plate appearances from him could easily be the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs for a bunch of teams.

If you want to make the argument that you hate him, don't like what he stands for and don't want to see him on your team for those reasons, then I don't disagree with you. But, if you want to make the argument that Bonds hurt the Giants last year and that they would have won more games without arguably the best hitter in the NL, then that's insane.

Edited for clarity

(edited by Corajudo on 27.6.08 1243)
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