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The W - Current Events & Politics - Barbara Boxer Ruins My Day (Electoral College Challenge)
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spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.51
Nothing I like more in the morning than watching my party make an ass of themselves (story.news.yahoo.com) as Sen. Boxer has agreed to challenge the Electoral College vote in the Senate, along with 20 House Dems, forcing the Congress to convene to consider the vote.

I understand what they're saying. Ohio does sound like it was very poorly run, and something does need to be done to make sure that elections run more smoothly. But this is not the way to have that debate. This merely looks like sour grapes, will make people already poorly inclined to the Dems even less inclined towards them, and makes them look petty and grasping. Not a good start to 2005 for the Dems, and I hope she reconsiders this.



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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Amazingly, I agree with just about everything spf said.



A Fan
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Since: 3.1.02

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.27
If you actually look at the laundry list of demands made against Ohio, probably one or two are actually worth looking into. That said, the Republicans shouldn't be crying foul in the Washington state Govenor's Race if they don't like the way the Democrates are playing their game. The conflict of interest is probably an easy case to make against the Ohio vote, but at the end of the day unless they find 200,000 votes that say Kerry, I dont' see the big deal. If the Democrates can also find something wrong with the voting machines then maybe they can pull it off, I think they are looking for a miracle inside a ham sandwich.

I will agree, it makes the Dems look pretty pathatic then again bringing down Nixon was about a botched buglary, so its weird how this stuff starts.





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TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
I really don't see this as a bad thing at all. I think if anything at all good comes of this challenge, it's worth it. It's obvious something different needs to be done to make the U.S. election process less "disputable" and to make it easier to access for some people. Is challenging in the Senate the right way to do that? I don't know, it certainly brings the problems to national attention (or moreso, at least). Unfortunately, I'm not sure fixing voting problems are the Democrats' motives here, it seems more to be "exposing" the Evil Republicans, which will likely accomplish nothing for them.

Alternatively, let's say HYPOTHETICALLY that there were wrongdoings going on in Ohio. Perhaps furthering the debate/investigation causes someone to stumble across some evidence. I mean, like A Fan alluded to, nobody suspected Nixon when five Miami guys broke into the Watergate Hotel. If it turns out that crooks were behind fixing the election, wouldn't it be a GOOD thing if we were to find out? I don't think this reason alone would be enough to contest the vote, but coupled with the more important possible voting reform, I think it makes the challenge worth it.

I don't think any of us will be able to properly assess this move until there are a couple months of hindsight to use first, though.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 6.1.05 1219)
AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36
Bucs, I think you miss the point here.

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan

    Alternatively, let's say HYPOTHETICALLY that there were wrongdoings going on in Ohio. Perhaps furthering the debate/investigation causes someone to stumble across some evidence.


They are going to do NOTHING but meet as seperate houses for two hours, with various congresspeople alternatively bashing and praising the election process and collecting soundbites and then the republicans will call for the vote and they will certify. Anything that was already going will continue if it was going to continue and stop if it was going to stop and nothing will start up. Jesse Jackson proves his power base. (again) Conyers will get his national attention, as desired.

I think Captain's Quarters has it best:
"They continue their Great March To The Fringe, now at double-time."




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too-old-now
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Since: 7.1.04

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.35
I think Boxer was to be joined by Senators Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, and Barak Obama.

With a little more attention paid, perhaps this'll get more play nationally and some of the problems will get fixed.
Sec19Row53
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
    Originally posted by too-old-now
    With a little more attention paid, perhaps this'll get more play nationally and some of the problems will get fixed.


It would be nice if that were the case, but nothing appeared to have been fixed after Florida in 2000. Why will this be any different?
LionJeetSingh
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Since: 3.3.03

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
I don't see how the Dem's come off as pathetic. If there is a valid concern, it should be addressed and checked.

The party is already seen as pathetic by most Republicans and conservative Dems anyways. In 4 years, this will be forgotten.



Vut Joo Talkin?
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.35
    Originally posted by too-old-now
    I think Boxer was to be joined by Senators Chris Dodd, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, and Barak Obama.

    With a little more attention paid, perhaps this'll get more play nationally and some of the problems will get fixed.







Hilary is originally from Illinois. Obama is from Illinois. Considering the creative method of voting that has been employed by the Democratic Party in Cook County in past elections, perhaps they should look there before moving onto Ohio. Democrats better hope they don't win a Presidential election while not controlling the House and Senate, or else the Republicans will go after Illinois' electoral college votes, and have the majority to cause trouble if they want.
As for the Republican Party in Washington state: It was a bad beat. Bad beats happen. Put the loss behind you and look ahead.

(edited by redsoxnation on 6.1.05 1804)
bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.10
    Originally posted by A Fan
    If you actually look at the laundry list of demands made against Ohio, probably one or two are actually worth looking into. That said, the Republicans shouldn't be crying foul in the Washington state Govenor's Race if they don't like the way the Democrates are playing their game.


    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    As for the Republican Party in Washington state: It was a bad beat. Bad beats happen. Put the loss behind you and look ahead.


I guess the problem for me is that there is indisputable evidence (soundpolitics.com) that there was vote fraud in Washington while nobody's yet come close to presenting that kind of evidence in Ohio. I'm not saying that the evidence isn't there, I'm merely saying that I've yet to see anything that is more substantial than vague allegations or unverifiable suspicions, and that includes the Conyers report.

Tim




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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.02
    Originally posted by LionJeetSingh
    I don't see how the Dem's come off as pathetic. If there is a valid concern, it should be addressed and checked.
It's an abuse of the process. I believe the Senate vote came out to something like 1 (Boxer) to 74. Countless speeches on the Democrat side during the two hour debate period included words to the effect of "we're not disputing the results, but..." which for my money is an admission that it was a stupid, unnecessary, granstanding move because an objection to a certificate is supposed to EXACTLY be a dispute of the results. I hope to God this isn't used as a "well, they did it in 2004" precedent for equally ludicrous purposes down the road. Hell, there wasn't even this kind of move in *2000*.

What's even MORE shameful is California Republicans couldn't muster up ANYBODY to defeat Boxer in 2004 when they had the chance (not to mention 1998 OR 1992). I mean, Bill Jones is probably a super guy and he was definitely a great secretary of state for California, but come ON.



CRZ
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by CRZ
    What's even MORE shameful is California Republicans couldn't muster up ANYBODY to defeat Boxer in 2004 when they had the chance (not to mention 1998 OR 1992). I mean, Bill Jones is probably a super guy and he was definitely a great secretary of state for California, but come ON.
Looking from afar, Jones seems like a nice guy, but a blas candidate. If the CA GOP really wanted to win, they would've made sure that Rosario Marin won the primary. I understand that she is moderate to liberal, but she had the support of the White House for the bid and would've been an easier sell than a bland white guy named Jones...



bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.10
Adding to what I said earlier, the Post-Intelligencer (seattlepi.nwsource.com) is now saying that not only did dead people vote in the election, they managed to get to the polls and sign the books. I wonder if John Conyers and Barbara Boxer will protest this election?

Tim



Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit. -- Erasmus
Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.04
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by CRZ
      What's even MORE shameful is California Republicans couldn't muster up ANYBODY to defeat Boxer in 2004 when they had the chance (not to mention 1998 OR 1992). I mean, Bill Jones is probably a super guy and he was definitely a great secretary of state for California, but come ON.
    Looking from afar, Jones seems like a nice guy, but a blas candidate. If the CA GOP really wanted to win, they would've made sure that Rosario Marin won the primary. I understand that she is moderate to liberal, but she had the support of the White House for the bid and would've been an easier sell than a bland white guy named Jones...


Never heard of her, but then again, I live in a fairly conservative part of the state, and Bill Jones' hometown. The CAGOP just didn't put up much of a fight on this.



too-old-now
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Since: 7.1.04

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.35
Did anyone else catch Obama's 5 minutes on this topic?

What stood out for me was that he came out and said the election process has to be seriously looked at, and that he recognized that he represents Cook County which has had its own checkered past...but it all should be fixed to restore credibility to the process.

JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.89
    Originally posted by bash91
    Adding to what I said earlier, the Post-Intelligencer (seattlepi.nwsource.com) is now saying that not only did dead people vote in the election, they managed to get to the polls and sign the books.


I have no doubt this is true, as I've voted in Washington many times and rarely have had so much as my license checked before I signed the book and was given my ballot.



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Yep. That's because Corbett's the boss. One would think that a military-sympathetic guy would have less trouble with the notion of following orders.
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