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The W - Baseball - Awards (Page 3)
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skorpio17
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Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.42
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous

    You can also have big HR hitters, who only hit solo jobs and can't do it with men on base. Look at Rick Wilkins' 30 HR season....


Or look at Barry Bonds this season. He has hit 33 Solo shots and only 10 with runners on. The solo shots were in 222 ABs, runners on with 146 AB. With runners on he hits one every 14.6 ABs; nobody on one every 6.7.

This helps explain why his RBIs are so low...his teamates are only part of the explanation.

I have problems with anybody in a power position winning an MVP with such a low RBI total. It rarely happens when a player has less than 100 RBIs. I know Ichiro a few years ago was a dubious pick. Pendleton in 91 and Gibson in 88 were very questionable as well.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    I have problems with anybody in a power position winning an MVP with such a low RBI total. It rarely happens when a player has less than 100 RBIs. I know Ichiro a few years ago was a dubious pick. Pendleton in 91 and Gibson in 88 were very questionable as well.


I'd hardly call Ichiro a "dubious" MVP choice. He was the leadoff hitter, so he wouldn't be getting the RBI chances of a 3 or 4 hitter, and the team won 116 games. Ichiro won a Gold Glove, the batting title, and the stolen base title...what more can you ask of a leadoff guy?



Washington Huskies, 1-1. USC didn't look THAT great after the first quarter, so I'm more optimistic that they'll be the 2003 Pac-10 champs.
Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.62
Skorp, as much as I hate Bonds, the reason his RBI totals are so low is that NOONE PITCHES TO HIM WITH RUNNERS ON BASE. (From Yahoo/Bigleaguers.com) Bonds is hitting .344 with nobody on base (224 AB, 46 BB, 34 HR, 34 RBI), .340 with runners on (147 AB, 99 BB, 10 HR, 53 RBI), .352 with runners in scoring position (71 AB, 71 BB, 4 HR, 38 RBI), .320 with RISP and two outs (25 AB, 40 BB, 1 HR, 11 RBI), and .556 with the bases loaded(9 AB, 1 BB, 0 HR, 12 RBI).



(edited by Whitebacon on 20.9.03 1737)


Taken from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review:

Accusations have surfaced about Julian Tavarez doctoring the baseball with a foreign substance that he hides on the bill of his cap.

''It's ridiculous,'' Tavarez said. ''They checked my hat last year, too, and never found anything. They're just trying to get inside my head. But I won't let them.'' Just to demonstrate that no one was getting inside his head, Tavarez decided to ramble on for another hour or two and provide a quote of the year possibility. ''Some people like skinny women. I like fat women. Some people like young women. I like older women. Some people like poor women. I like rich women,'' Tavarez said. ''Some people like clean hats. I like my dirty hat.''
My Blog (thecobicity.blogspot.com)
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.98
    Originally posted by JayJayDean

    I'd hardly call Ichiro a "dubious" MVP choice. He was the leadoff hitter, so he wouldn't be getting the RBI chances of a 3 or 4 hitter, and the team won 116 games. Ichiro won a Gold Glove, the batting title, and the stolen base title...what more can you ask of a leadoff guy?





    I remember that year very well for all the "overrated" chants directed at Ichiro at his last playoff game in Yankee Stadium.

    The stat I like most is Runs Created = (Runs + RBI)/2.

    That year Ichiro had 98 RC. Giambi had 114.5 RC. But the real MVP should have been Bret Boone with 129.5 RC. He created over 30 more runs than Ichiro on the same team having one of the best seasons ever at his position.

    This year the AL MVP is a toss up, but I go with A-Rods 118 RC over Nomars 107.5.





    (edited by skorpio17 on 21.9.03 1521)

    (edited by skorpio17 on 21.9.03 1525)
Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.79
    Originally posted by skopio17
    This year the AL MVP is a toss up, but I go with A-Rods 118 RC over Nomars 107.5.


That's where you get into things like how is A-Rod that valuable to his team when they're fifty games out of first.



Taken from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review:

Accusations have surfaced about Julian Tavarez doctoring the baseball with a foreign substance that he hides on the bill of his cap.

''It's ridiculous,'' Tavarez said. ''They checked my hat last year, too, and never found anything. They're just trying to get inside my head. But I won't let them.'' Just to demonstrate that no one was getting inside his head, Tavarez decided to ramble on for another hour or two and provide a quote of the year possibility. ''Some people like skinny women. I like fat women. Some people like young women. I like older women. Some people like poor women. I like rich women,'' Tavarez said. ''Some people like clean hats. I like my dirty hat.''
My Blog (thecobicity.blogspot.com)
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
God help us all, Skorp might have a point. (Thankfully, it's not for the reason he said.)

There hasn't really been a bang-up hands-down victor for the AL MVP yet; nobody's really made a strong case for it among the contenders for it. Giambi started out horrible; he's since picked it up, but not MVP-caliber; you've got to be consistent throughout the entire year. Man-ram; once again, solid, but unspectacular. Plus, it's hard to distinguish his contributions from Nomar's (somewhat... I think you guys get what I mean; it's the voting for two guys on the same team problem). Same boat with Seattle, only as of now, they won't make the playoffs. Delgado's got a case - or he would if the Jays were in contention.

A-Rod's probably been the best player over the last few years; think of the MVP award as a salute to his sustained performance.

Oh, and Skorp:
It sounds like folks are saying guys from Japan should be ineligible for ROY awards.

That's because we are. As JayJay touched on, it's in the spirit of the ROY eligibility; nobody on earth believes that it's Matsui's first year in the "big leagues" - you don't get a massive foreign media entourage if you're a straight-up newcomer.





Knoxville Lindy Exchange
darkdragoon
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Since: 26.8.02

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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by skorpio17
      Originally posted by JayJayDean

      I'd hardly call Ichiro a "dubious" MVP choice. He was the leadoff hitter, so he wouldn't be getting the RBI chances of a 3 or 4 hitter, and the team won 116 games. Ichiro won a Gold Glove, the batting title, and the stolen base title...what more can you ask of a leadoff guy?





      I remember that year very well for all the "overrated" chants directed at Ichiro at his last playoff game in Yankee Stadium.

      The stat I like most is Runs Created = (Runs + RBI)/2.

      That year Ichiro had 98 RC. Giambi had 114.5 RC. But the real MVP should have been Bret Boone with 129.5 RC. He created over 30 more runs than Ichiro on the same team having one of the best seasons ever at his position.

      This year the AL MVP is a toss up, but I go with A-Rods 118 RC over Nomars 107.5.





      (edited by skorpio17 on 21.9.03 1521)

      (edited by skorpio17 on 21.9.03 1525)


Of course, after the Yanks had about 12 scouts on him and gave him mostly junk to swing at, they call him overrated. they certainly wouldn't have minded him taking over for O'Neil.

as for Boone, he got gipped much like A-Rod did with Griffey. My main thing with Giambi is that Tejeda excelled in his spot the next year and Giambi was more super Jim Thome.
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by skorpio17
      Originally posted by JayJayDean

      I'd hardly call Ichiro a "dubious" MVP choice. He was the leadoff hitter, so he wouldn't be getting the RBI chances of a 3 or 4 hitter, and the team won 116 games. Ichiro won a Gold Glove, the batting title, and the stolen base title...what more can you ask of a leadoff guy?





      I remember that year very well for all the "overrated" chants directed at Ichiro at his last playoff game in Yankee Stadium.

      The stat I like most is Runs Created = (Runs + RBI)/2.

      That year Ichiro had 98 RC. Giambi had 114.5 RC. But the real MVP should have been Bret Boone with 129.5 RC. He created over 30 more runs than Ichiro on the same team having one of the best seasons ever at his position.

      This year the AL MVP is a toss up, but I go with A-Rods 118 RC over Nomars 107.5.





      (edited by skorpio17 on 21.9.03 1521)

      (edited by skorpio17 on 21.9.03 1525)


Boone wouldn't have had all of those RBI if, say, Roger Cedeno was the M's leadoff hitter that year. I don't think you can apply all the same stats (like runs created) to a leadoff guy that apply to a 3 or 4-hitter. Plus, Ichiro also had the most hits by a guy since like 1931. That has to count for something.

For the record, I think A-Rod should be the MVP this year. No one on the contending team is having an outstanding, MVP-type year, so I think it's appropriate to give it to the overall guy having the best year, even if he's on a horrible team.

(edited by JayJayDean on 22.9.03 0608)


Washington Huskies, 1-1. USC didn't look THAT great after the first quarter, so I'm more optimistic that they'll be the 2003 Pac-10 champs.
PalpatineW
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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
I prefer RC/27 to plain RC. ESPN describes it as "how many runs per game a team made up of nine of the same player would score."

The top 3 in RC/27 from 2002 were:

Thome: 10.89
Manny: 10.51
Giambi: 9.18

A Rod was at 8.52, and Ichiro had a relatively paltry 6.32. Boone had 5.55... less than Brian Daubach. IsoP and SecA were also lower than Daubach's. When you take his performance out of the context of the team's, it wasn't as noteworthy as it is on first glance.

This ought to get you to the stats page on ESPN where I looked it up.

Of course, none of this resolves the whole debate over the word "valuable."

(edited by PalpatineW on 22.9.03 1751)


Johnny Cash
1932-2003
El Nastio
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Since: 14.1.02
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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33
NL MVP: The best player is also the most valuable to his team in this case. Vladie G is my pick.

NL Cy Young: Eric Gagne. Unbeatable at this time.

NL Rookie of the Year: Agreed on Scott Posednik.

AL MVP: Pedro. You've seen how much the Red Sox are better when he's pitching. He's the most valuable but NOT the best pitcher this year (in large part to the chunk of time he missed....that and there has been another pitcher who has been just as good).

AL Cy Young: Roy Halladay is having a great season, and has been doing better at the end of the season than at the start.

AL Rookie of the Year: Agreed Rocco Baldelli.



br>Sacred Heart.....have mercy on us.
PalpatineW
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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by El Nastio
    NL MVP: The best player is also the most valuable to his team in this case. Vladie G is my pick.

    NL Cy Young: Eric Gagne. Unbeatable at this time.

    NL Rookie of the Year: Agreed on Scott Posednik.

    AL MVP: Pedro. You've seen how much the Red Sox are better when he's pitching. He's the most valuable but NOT the best pitcher this year (in large part to the chunk of time he missed....that and there has been another pitcher who has been just as good).

    AL Cy Young: Roy Halladay is having a great season, and has been doing better at the end of the season than at the start.

    AL Rookie of the Year: Agreed Rocco Baldelli.


Vlad and Pedro were both out for long stretches this year, which IMO ought to take them out of the MVP running.



Johnny Cash
1932-2003
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.16
The most valuable TO HIS TEAM is Jim Thome. But, not the best PLAYER this season. Maybe they need an award for both, since people always bicker about what the award SHOULD be for.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
After the four-dinger game, Carlos Delgado has thrown his hat back into the ring. What a performance.......though I still think it should be A-Rod.




"When this bogus term alternative rock was being thrown at every '70s retro rehash folk group, we were challenging people to new sonic ideas. If some little snotty anarchist with an Apple Mac and an attitude thinks he invented dance music and the big rock group is coming into his territory, [that's] ridiculous." - Bono, 1997
kazhayashi81
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Since: 17.6.02
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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.92
UNITED WE STAND

    Originally posted by Whitebacon
      Originally posted by skopio17
      This year the AL MVP is a toss up, but I go with A-Rods 118 RC over Nomars 107.5.


    That's where you get into things like how is A-Rod that valuable to his team when they're fifty games out of first.


As a Rangers fan, I can answer this.

The Rangers lost a LOT of close games this year. Their pitching blew it in most cases. If it wasn't for A-Rod keeping them in the game, they might have lost... maybe 10 more, but a lot more of them would've been blowouts.

Rodriguez keeps the Rangers in the game, even if they don't win them.

To me, that's as good of an MVP as you're going to find.





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It is the soldier, who saluted the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag
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Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
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#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
As far as the NL MVP goes, I think Sosa needs to be in the conversation. I don't think he should win it, but he needs to be discussed. He's overcome the toe, getting whacked in the head, the suspension, and still hit 40 and 100.



Taken from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review:

Accusations have surfaced about Julian Tavarez doctoring the baseball with a foreign substance that he hides on the bill of his cap.

''It's ridiculous,'' Tavarez said. ''They checked my hat last year, too, and never found anything. They're just trying to get inside my head. But I won't let them.'' Just to demonstrate that no one was getting inside his head, Tavarez decided to ramble on for another hour or two and provide a quote of the year possibility. ''Some people like skinny women. I like fat women. Some people like young women. I like older women. Some people like poor women. I like rich women,'' Tavarez said. ''Some people like clean hats. I like my dirty hat.''
My Blog (thecobicity.blogspot.com)
Swordsman Yen
Frankfurter








Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Well you know something, Mean Gene...
    Originally posted by kazhayashi81
      Originally posted by Whitebacon
        Originally posted by skopio17
        This year the AL MVP is a toss up, but I go with A-Rods 118 RC over Nomars 107.5.


      That's where you get into things like how is A-Rod that valuable to his team when they're fifty games out of first.


    As a Rangers fan, I can answer this.

    The Rangers lost a LOT of close games this year. Their pitching blew it in most cases. If it wasn't for A-Rod keeping them in the game, they might have lost... maybe 10 more, but a lot more of them would've been blowouts.

    Rodriguez keeps the Rangers in the game, even if they don't win them.

    To me, that's as good of an MVP as you're going to find.


If the Rangers finished at 91-71, then I see your point. But they finished at 71-91. With A-Rod numbers, they were last in the AL West. Without A-Rod they would perhaps be...still last. I don't see an MVP there. Until the Rangers are a factor beyond June, A-Rod should not even be in the running.

(edited by Swordsman Yen on 4.10.03 1436)


DIAMONDS: SHE'LL PRETTY MUCH HAVE TO
Merc
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Brisbane, Australia

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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.62
    Originally posted by Swordsman Yen
    If the Rangers finished at 91-71, then I see your point. But they finished at 71-91. With A-Rod numbers, they were last in the AL West. Without A-Rod they would perhaps be...still last.

I don't see how it matters what the team result is in an individual award. I can see validity in arguments from both sides here, but 1 stud with 8 stiffs isn't gunna get the same result as 3 almost studs with 5 stiffs. Surely if the individual numbers are the best, that guy is the MVP?



...like that first time you dryhumped your high school girlfriend- sweaty, repulsive, messy.
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Swordsman Yen
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Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

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#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Well you know something, Mean Gene...
    Originally posted by Merc
      Originally posted by Swordsman Yen
      If the Rangers finished at 91-71, then I see your point. But they finished at 71-91. With A-Rod numbers, they were last in the AL West. Without A-Rod they would perhaps be...still last.

    I don't see how it matters what the team result is in an individual award. I can see validity in arguments from both sides here, but 1 stud with 8 stiffs isn't gunna get the same result as 3 almost studs with 5 stiffs. Surely if the individual numbers are the best, that guy is the MVP?


In the tradition of a former president, it depends on what your definition of "MVP" is. If you look at the individual numbers alone, then A-Rod is a candidate. If you look at the numbers along with if that player's presence made his team better, then A-Rod isn't in the running. I tend to believe that the MVP award should go to somebody who made his team better with his stats and what isn't recorded in the stats.



DIAMONDS: SHE'LL PRETTY MUCH HAVE TO
Merc
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Brisbane, Australia

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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.62
    Originally posted by Swordsman Yen
    I tend to believe that the MVP award should go to somebody who made his team better with his stats and what isn't recorded in the stats.


Isn't that some pretty hard stuff to quantify? I know there will always be debate no matter what method is used, and that's just looking at the Gagne for Cy Young stuff. I'm not sure how you could say A-Rod doesn't make his team better 124-47-118-17-.298 seems to improve most teams.



...like that first time you dryhumped your high school girlfriend- sweaty, repulsive, messy.
-DEAN~!
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