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The W - Print - Avengers vs. X-Men #12
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 84 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.48
"Don't you DARE call this a WIN!" - Captain America yells at Cyclops.

Well, I'll call it a win. I liked Avengers vs. X-Men overall and I liked the ending. It worked for me.

Dark Phoenix Cyclops was put down by the combination of Hope Summers and Scarlett Witch. I liked the acknowledgement that Wanda Maximoff is original cause of the mutant extinction and the Phoenix came to Earth to return the balance.

New mutants activated all over the world because of the Phoenix.

Nova got a bad ass moment where he took Cyclops down. The Phoenix abandoned Cyclops. Hope became the White Phoenix. Hope healed the world, and before the Phoenix could start to corrupt her, Scarlett Witch talked her into letting the Phoenix Force go. Where did it go? Dunno, it's gone. Okay, then.

In a ruby quartz cell, Cyclops gets yelled at by Captain America. Cap acknowledges that he didn't do enough over the years for mutants, letting people hate and fear them.

So he's putting together a new Avengers team combined with X-Men. Uncanny Avengers. (Why not Mighty X-Men, Cap?)

Meanwhile, Emma Frost, Magneto, Colossus, Magik and Namor are at large and Cap wants them to answer for their crimes.

I think the ending worked. I liked it. I was satisfied. Marvel has always done the epic crossover event better than DC and they did it again here.



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It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.74
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Meanwhile, Emma Frost, Magneto, Colossus, Magik and Namor are at large and Cap wants them to answer for their crimes.

Ok, this bothered me. Exactly why is Magneto a fugitive? He wasn't part of the Phoenix Five. Hell, calling Xavier was his idea in the first place! Why is he getting the raw end of this deal?

That's not to say I'm not bothered by Cyclops suddenly becoming a top-tier bad guy, because that's still a pretty big slap in the face to anybody that's followed the X-Men through their entire run. He was the mutants' equivalent to Captain America, a big blue boy scout, and he deserves a lot better than to get the "X-Men: The Movie" ending.

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Scarlett Witch talked her into letting the Phoenix Force go. Where did it go? Dunno, it's gone. Okay, then.

I think the implication is that the scattered remnants of the Phoenix are what created the new mutants. I'm ok with this explanation.

As far as characters go, I have no idea where they go with Hope and the Scarlet Witch from here. Hope as the White Phoenix could have been a very interesting direction before they decided...naaaaah.

I'm not enthralled with the Uncanny Avengers series that's coming, but if A+X is half as good as the AvX issues, I'm in!



lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.35
I think what you can take away from this series is Captain America is a giant dick. He says he wants to do more for human/mutant relations and his first act is round up more mutants to be put in cages. I have no words for who condescending that sounds.

I figured the end of this would be the return of the mutants, but I was hoping that somewhere in Bendis' lets job the X-Men out, because the Avengers made bank at the box office story would be a moment where some bitch slaps Scarlet Witch for what she did to cause this mess. If you want throw someone in jail, Wanda should be the first to go.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Doc_whiskey
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Since: 6.8.02
From: St. Louis

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I think what you can take away from this series is Captain America is a giant dick. He says he wants to do more for human/mutant relations and his first act is round up more mutants to be put in cages. I have no words for who condescending that sounds.



You mean the mutants that were responsible for a global catastrophe? Context is kind of important in that regards. It's not like he's arresting Iceman or Wolverine, he's going after the other Phoenix 5 members.



Lisa: Poor predicatble Bart, always picks rock
Bart: Good ole rock, nothing beats that
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.35
    Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
      Originally posted by lotjx
      I think what you can take away from this series is Captain America is a giant dick. He says he wants to do more for human/mutant relations and his first act is round up more mutants to be put in cages. I have no words for who condescending that sounds.



    You mean the mutants that were responsible for a global catastrophe? Context is kind of important in that regards. It's not like he's arresting Iceman or Wolverine, he's going after the other Phoenix 5 members.


But how much control were they really in of those powers. We know the Phoenix entity is corruption incarnate. Plus, as False pointed out, Magento shouldn't fall in that category. Again, Wanda is responsible for this entire thing and she is probably going to be part of this team and her excuse would be the same, I wasn't in control.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Doc_whiskey
Frankfurter








Since: 6.8.02
From: St. Louis

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by lotjx
      Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
        Originally posted by lotjx
        I think what you can take away from this series is Captain America is a giant dick. He says he wants to do more for human/mutant relations and his first act is round up more mutants to be put in cages. I have no words for who condescending that sounds.



      You mean the mutants that were responsible for a global catastrophe? Context is kind of important in that regards. It's not like he's arresting Iceman or Wolverine, he's going after the other Phoenix 5 members.


    But how much control were they really in of those powers. We know the Phoenix entity is corruption incarnate. Plus, as False pointed out, Magento shouldn't fall in that category. Again, Wanda is responsible for this entire thing and she is probably going to be part of this team and her excuse would be the same, I wasn't in control.


I agree with those points. Still I think saying he is a bad person for going after people that were responsible for a catastrophe is bad doesn't ring true. Just because he didn't go after something once doesn't mean he should never do it again.



Lisa: Poor predicatble Bart, always picks rock
Bart: Good ole rock, nothing beats that
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 84 days
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.48
Hey guys, Magneto is still a mutant terrorist and he allied himself with the X-Men, five of whom declared war on the planet. They have to be brought to answer for what they did. It doesn't matter if Magneto wasn't one of the Phoenix Five, he's not someone who gets to be a private citizen living in the suburbs incognito. He's MAGNETO, one of the most dangerous threats to the planet with a history of doing whatever the hell he wants to whomever he wants whenever he thinks he's right to do so. Magneto should always be under watch.

How is Captain America a dick? The Avengers fought a war against an insurmountable force and they barely won. But Cap learned something; he admitted to Cyclops that one of Cyclops' main points was true: the Avengers haven't done enough for the mutant population, if anything. He decided to integrate the Avengers and the X-Men so they're not separate entities anymore, ideally making a threat to the X-Men and the mutants a direct threat to and the responsibility of the Avengers. I mean, what more can Cap do?

(edited by John Orquiola on 4.10.12 0651)

@CMPunk
“@ZackRyder: @CMPunk She played me bro” I got your back.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.35
He is a dick for saying, I should form a team around my team name and sprinkle in some mutants for good PR. Then he orders the arrest of a bunch of mutants who like almost every hero in the Marvelverse lost control and went nuts. Also, the Avengers already had mutants in it. Who is Quicksliver and Scarlet Witch's Dad again? This is not earth shattering stuff of Cap saying, we are going to let mutants in. Shit, they were there day two when Hulk ran off. It just looks like Cap is a dick for saying, yeah I didn't do enough for mutant rights, so instead of I don't know being an American symbol and actually going to Congress with the rest of the Avengers and demanding no Sentinel projects, mutant experiments or registration, which again Cap should be against anyway, instead of being the golf course that is finally letting women in even though women were already in.

Magento is a threat, but he has also helped save the day a number of times. He was the one that said, they should talk to Xavier. He should be watched not dragged in with the others. Yet, in a lot of ways Magento is right, humanity and mutants can't co-exist and Cap admitted to as much.

(edited by lotjx on 4.10.12 0908)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Cerebus
Knackwurst








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 5 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.38
I especially like how they had that little conversation between Iron Fist and Iron Man giving credit for the rebirth of the X-Gene to the non-mutant, white dude in a power suit. #GreatWhiteHopeIronMan

You could also look at it as Wanda's way of saying "Okay. we can have mutants back.
#HopeIsATool

Why does Scott go to prison while Scarlet Witch is out and free to do whatever?
#X-MenAreSecondClassCitizens



Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 1 day
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.42
The retcon/shoehorning of Phoenix into Kun-Lun history doesn't sit well with me, and it makes up the majority of the Avengers material for this series. I do, however, like that it's the Avengers who teach Hope how to be the savior the X-Men thought she was. Cyclops tried to hone her fighting instinct; the Avengers honed her spirit.

Wanda/Hope have enough X-Men/mutant pedigree to redeem that side of the AvX conflict. And Cap is trying to prove that Cyclops was wrong to isolate the mutants on Utopia. His new Avengers idea will help them assimilate, which is also what Wolverine and Kitty are trying to do with the school. That kinda makes the the Jean Gray School into the new Avengers Academy.

I would have been all for this last issue if not for the Marvel NOW solicits spoiling so much of it. They really diluted the impact of a big event.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 339 days
Last activity: 331 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.69
I like the conclusion. Maybe not every character's motivations are completely logical, but so it is in reality. At least the status quo has not been totally restored, which is the main thing I look for in big comics events. It's fun to shake things up and then watch the individual creative teams sort them out for a few months.
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.35
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/10/04/comicsalliance-vs-avx-round-twelve-avengers-x-men/

The best part of this storyline ends. I want to get that shirt.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 84 days
Last activity: 84 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.48
"Cyclops Was Right". This is why I think Ultimately AvX was very well conceived. The X-Men lost but won. The Avengers won but lost. These were all (well, mostly) heroes fighting each other and doing extraordinary things to each other in an extraordinary circumstance, but the way the pieces came together in the end made it a satisfying story.

Although, I did spend the whole AvX wondering what Doom was doing. I'd have loved Dr. Doom swooping in last second with an army of Doombots and becoming Dark Doom Phoenix.



@CMPunk
“@ZackRyder: @CMPunk She played me bro” I got your back.
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    I'd have loved Dr. Doom swooping in last second with an army of Doombots and becoming Dark Doom Phoenix.

Or Fin Fang Foonix!



"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 8 hours
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.17
I also enjoyed this event overall, and that's the first time I've said that since World War Hulk. I thought making the Scarlet Witch the ultimate hero of the story was a very nice bookend to House of M, and redeemed her character from that particular hatchet-job. Cyclops's heel turn is a bit of a bummer, but it made some sense, and seeing as how I wasn't going to be buying Bendis's X-Men anyhow, I'm not sure if it will impact me too much.
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 95 days
Last activity: 62 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.84

based on the last page of Uncanny, I guess Scott is a CMPunk fan.



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