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The W - Baseball - Aren't you dooming a guy if...
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Brian P. Dermody
Liverwurst
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Since: 20.9.02
From: New York, NY

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#1 Posted on
...the headline on your Sports section reads that the Sox got the "other" Giambi?

It's your defeatist attitude, Sox fans, not some far flung curse.

On the other hand, getting rid of Daubauch won't hurt.



Modern Humorist
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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 387 days
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#2 Posted on
Actually, I'm against this trade. Not only did the Sox give up a pitching prospect, they are not getting much of an upgrade. Sure, Giambi had a better On Base Percentage than Daubach, however, with similar at bats and home runs, Daubach had an additional 25-30 RBI's. And, sadly, Daubach is a better fielder. The thing I remember most about Giambi from this season is Oakland going from an awful team on the day they traded him to a team that played over .750 ball from the point after trading him. I don't think it was much of a coincidence. But, the media is already in the bag for the Henry/Werner 'We destroyed baseball in 2 other cities, but trust us we're good owners' cabal. Why didn't we freeze Mr. and Mrs. Yawkey to prevent this from happening?



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Try waking up to this headline:

Orioles reach deal with Deivi Cruz



What kind of disjointed society do we live in if Merry Christmas is Politically Incorrect?
Brian P. Dermody
Liverwurst
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Since: 20.9.02
From: New York, NY

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#4 Posted on
I go back to the film classic "12 Angry Men". The great Jack Warden saying something along the lines of...

(You're a fan of) Baltimore? That's like gettin' hit in the head every mornin'...



Modern Humorist
Simba
Frankfurter








Since: 7.8.02
From: Boston, MA

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.20
Being a Phillies fan, (living in Boston) I'm pretty happy with the pitching prospect. Hell, the Phils need all the arms they can get at this point. And Giambi became expendable the minute they got Thome.
As far as the Sox go, I concur they basically have the same production as Daubach. I don't think it drastically helped them, but it may have hurt their future rotation.

Advantage: Phillies, but maybe not for another year or two.



Professional wrestling isn't a hobby. It's a lifestyle.
pieman
As young as
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Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21



    Originally posted by Grimis
    Try waking up to this headline:

    Orioles reach deal with Deivi Cruz



It could be worse. You could be a fan of the Devil Rays and get to watch Rey Ordonez every day waving at major league pitching.



He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#7 Posted on

    Originally posted by pieman

      Originally posted by Grimis
      Try waking up to this headline:

      Orioles reach deal with Deivi Cruz



    It could be worse. You could be a fan of the Devil Rays and get to watch Rey Ordonez every day waving at major league pitching.






But, on the bright side for Devil Rays fans (yes, both of them): There is always the possiblity Rey will re-defect back to Cuba.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by pieman

      Originally posted by Grimis
      Try waking up to this headline:

      Orioles reach deal with Deivi Cruz



    It could be worse. You could be a fan of the Devil Rays and get to watch Rey Ordonez every day waving at major league pitching.



You could also be the Padres, and now have a hole where Deivi Cruz was.

He's not amazing, but he's pretty good. He's kind of clutch, sometimes. I've seen worse.



Your analogy is similar to:

"They already have cars that you can drive, why not blenders?"
"I can already write with my hands, why not my pancreas?"
"They already have beef that I can eat, why not granite?"

-- my new favorite quote from Slashdot comments.

mountinman44
Sujuk








Since: 8.5.02
From: San Diego, CA

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Y!:
#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by Guru Zim

      Originally posted by pieman

        Originally posted by Grimis
        Try waking up to this headline:

        Orioles reach deal with Deivi Cruz



      It could be worse. You could be a fan of the Devil Rays and get to watch Rey Ordonez every day waving at major league pitching.



    You could also be the Padres, and now have a hole where Deivi Cruz was.

    He's not amazing, but he's pretty good. He's kind of clutch, sometimes. I've seen worse.



Like... D'Angelo Jimenez and Damien Jackson. Two truly terrible shortstops. And who can forget the immortal Jose Offerman when he was with the Dodgers.



"Ensign Kodos, set coordinates for the obscure, T-shirt producing planet of Earth. We are going to visit... MY DAUGHTER!" -- Kang
drjayphd
Scrapple
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Since: 22.4.02
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#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by mountinman44

      Originally posted by Guru Zim

        Originally posted by pieman

          Originally posted by Grimis
          Try waking up to this headline:

          Orioles reach deal with Deivi Cruz



        It could be worse. You could be a fan of the Devil Rays and get to watch Rey Ordonez every day waving at major league pitching.



      You could also be the Padres, and now have a hole where Deivi Cruz was.

      He's not amazing, but he's pretty good. He's kind of clutch, sometimes. I've seen worse.



    Like... D'Angelo Jimenez and Damien Jackson. Two truly terrible shortstops.



Wow... remember when people said that the Pads shafted the Yanks? Turning Jay Witasick (who they got for some middling player) into their future SS, IIRC. And who'd they get for him from Chicago? A minor leaguer?


    Originally posted by mountinman44
    And who can forget the immortal Jose Offerman when he was with the Dodgers.


I've been trying to ever since we signed him. It's gotten easier now that Seattle took him off our hands.



Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of Punkinhead:

"I'm gonna go dig up a date!"
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

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#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by pieman

      Originally posted by Grimis
      Try waking up to this headline:

      Orioles reach deal with Deivi Cruz



    It could be worse. You could be a fan of the Devil Rays and get to watch Rey Ordonez every day waving at major league pitching.



Bah! Whatever, Rey Ordonez had one bad year, big deal, he was the best shortstop in the NL for like the past 5 years before that atleast. He had the record for most innings in a row without an error before Bordick broke it this year, but Ordonez had way more range and mad oustanding plays. If you think Ordonez sucks now just because of one year then you are a moron.

As for my team's bonehead move, it's not Ordonez, as you can probably tell from above I like him, but if we are dealing him for nothing to get cap room that could maybe get Guerrero or Griffey or someone in a trade than that's fine. But the deal that's on the table right now I don't understand.

Right now we have a deal that will send Burnitz and Todd Van Poppel (from the Rangers) to the Rockies, Cedeno and Astacio to the Rangers while we get Denny Neagle.

Did I miss something. Didn't Pedro Atacio and Denny Neagle both have pretty good careers going into Colorado, and Astacio not only survived but was very good. Meanwhile, Neagle's career hit a brick wall. So why would we give up a good pitcher and two of our starting outfielders (although not very good ones) for a pitcher not as good as the one we have!

If it was a money thing again then maybe I would understand a little bit more, but doesn't Neagle make more than Astacio?

I was looking forward to a Glavine, Leiter, Astacio starting three but with Neagle in there instead it looks more questionable to me.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
drjayphd
Scrapple
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Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

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#12 Posted on
Well, Ordonez could never hit. Period. He brings the D, though, which is what Piniella wants, I guess. He said they're trying to develop their pitching, and it's always nice to have someone there to catch the ball. In that sense, it helps both teams. But let's be honest--at this point, EVERYONE knows he can't hit... no one's getting fooled there.



Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of Punkinhead:

"I'm gonna go dig up a date!"
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21



    Originally posted by QuezzyIf you think Ordonez sucks now just because of one year then you are a moron



Alright Quezzy, I will grant that you are biased in your view of Ordonez, but he is perhaps the worst player to wear a uniform over the last 7 seasons. He has a batting average of .245, OBP of .290 and slugging of .304. .304!!! He gets on base 29% of the time!! No amount of outstanding defense can make up for his truly abysmal performance at the plate.


Click Here


Check out his page: His most similar players are Tom Veryzer and Felix Fermin!

He made a lot of money by playing good defense. He is a black hole in the lineup, though. Maybe the Devil Rays will let the pitchers hit and DH for Ordonez. It's not against the rules and maybe Piniella will try it.




He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1235 days
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#14 Posted on
Deivi Cruz v. Rey Ordonez, a debate for the ages.

Rey Ordonez can't hit and his fielding blew last year. Of course, Alomar's fielding also blew, so I think it's a Mets 2002 Curse. Also of note is that Ordonez is a dick.

Cruz can't field and can't hit but occasionally hits one far enough that it goes over the outfield wall for a "home run." One time he drove in 82 runs for the Tigers. That was his 'career year."

Advantage: Push.

Ordonez, Devil Rays.

Cruz, Orioles.

Advantage: Mets/other 29 teams that didn't sign Deivi Cruz.

Of course, we did make a half-assed last-second offer for Hideki Matsui, after sending him brochures a while back. We go all out, baby. Pudge Rodriguez in his declining years here we come.



Scott Christ
Come on, Eileen.

chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

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#15 Posted on
If it was a money thing again then maybe I would understand a little bit more, but doesn't Neagle make more than Astacio?

I'm making up numbers here, but if Neagle's contract pays $15 million per over the next two years, while Astacio's pays him $12 per over the next three or four... then who would you want to keep, regardless of talent?

These guys are old enough already, they're not anymore useful than they've been in the past. All baseball trades from this point on will be about money.

The game has changed in such a big way, that this will be a momentous time in baseball's history. I don't think anyone yet realizes how much the new agreement has changed the game.
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

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#16 Posted on
Ah, I can only partially agree with you there.

Did the new agreement change the game greatly? Yes, it did, and I don't think you'll find much dispute about that around here. It's led to one of the most interesting offseasons in my memory; after all, with the Phillies actually being players in the offseason market, that should tell you a lot.

However, I also believe that once the pre-new agreement contracts (mostly) play themselves out, then we'll start seeing the return of talent-based trades. Of course, this isn't to say that a lot of trades this offseason (in my opinion, at least) have been in the interest of talent, either.

Of course, all this also assumes that the current agreement isn't made null and void next trip to the bargaining table.

Also, although I'm not sure of the future lengths of Neagle's and Astacio's contracts, but for whatever it's worth, Astacio made $4 million last year (plus $5 million in incentives? Was looking at $4 mil opening day, $9 mil 2002 salary on ESPN.com), Neagle made $7 million.







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