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The W - Pro Wrestling - Are you serious, bro? Zack Ryder to end YouTube show? (Page 2)
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BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.74
"We Want Ryder"

I think it was just a lot more fun to want Ryder than to actually get him.

The WWE probably should have done the less is better thing with him.

We all wanted 911, then he'd show up and everyone would freak out, chokeslam, bigger freak out and scene. I'm not saying Ryder should have annihilated people just come down and do the worm or something on someone when the moment was right. Like the Boogey Man and worms.

Or they could have made us all still want Ryder, but never let him win because he is a crappy wrestler that is easily distracted, but lovable and fun. The WWE could have made their favorite gimmick, the losing streak, actually work. Internet fans would have been outraged, kids could think this is the time only to be let down again, and people like me who hate Ryder could even feel a soft spot for the guy. One of the worst things to happen to Ryder was he became semi-credible.

Losing doesn't matter as long as you are entertaining doing it and he would have been entertaining losing while not letting it get him down. He could still be cocky Ryder on his internet show because he is a deluded clown.

He's forever ruined now. His future is going to TNA as the guy who never got a fair shake, cutting a promo about it, beating someone like Samoa Joe in his first Impact match for a title in unconvincing fashion, then going on to being Hulk Hogan's little buddy while getting mixed up in some faction feud he has no business in while defending the title against Robbie E and T a whole bunch.

I've just wasted too much time on Zach Ryder.



(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 6.1.13 1240)
CRZ
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    When an interviewer says they really like Ryder, and Triple H laughs and says he has no fans, that's a hell of a sign right there that the glass ceiling is alive and well with the WWE.
I somehow missed this quote from Triple H. Could you please point me to it?

Also, I don't think you can just casually throw out "Vince/Hunter" as if they're the same person. I think over the past year we've seen quite a differentiation between what Vince believes and some of what Paul's been slowly introducing as he is able. If WWE were JUST Paul, I think this thread would be a lot different, but that point is still (probably) years away.



Papadoc
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Since: 14.1.04
From: NY

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.31
I just think that WWE kind of sidelined Ryder to keep the rest of the company in check.

If everyone saw what Ryder did, and tried to mimic it, they'd have a company full of wrestlers going outside of the company to create gimmicks and try to get themselves over. They can't have that, it would be chaos.

It is a sweet story when it works for one guy, and it did. I think now is the time for Ryder to move along to a new gimmick, he has shown that he can be very entertaining. He can be an asset to the company, so hopefully he is around for a while.
Dionysus
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Since: 10.7.11

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
Is it fair to say that Ryder is being buried relative to where he was before he started the show? He seems to still be elevated quite a bit from his starting position. I agree that they are not using him up to his full potential, but I still think that he has had a net benefit from his ZTLIS era.

Plus, Cena and HHH (or the writers through Cena and HHH) did presumably give him a fair bit of rub along the way through their ZTLIS appearances.

I wonder how well the Ryder merchandise was selling before the whole Eve kerfuffle.
CruelAngel777
Frankfurter








Since: 7.4.02

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.02
I really hope the end of his show doesn't signal an end to his WWE career. Before The E got Twitter, and #hashtag feud crazy Ryder and Dolph broadened their US Title feud to people through social media, which was really cool. Dolph would attack Ryder on camera, they both cut promos in Tweets before Vince realized what a Twitter was.

I still remember that TLC match where he beat Ziggler. His crowd support was tremendous because for a split second Creative remembered that fans like lovable losers. They don't have to win every match as long as the loser keeps fighting and wins a match when it truly counts people will eat that up. Vince and Creative know how to do this because they've been pushing Cena as the lovable loser archetype for a year plus, but a huge portion of fans see through it and boo him. Possibly because even if he loses big, he doesn't really seem affected by it. He's the top of the company with or without title, and everyone knows it so why show sympathy to the golden child?

Zack Ryder is the "Everyman" rubbery lovable loser just like Dusty Rhodes in his prime, Tommy Dreamer in the original ECW, and to an extent Mick Foley pre-Heavyweight World Championship run. The guy who's greatest weapons aren't size, chisled physique, heel tactics, or a deep technical moveset, it's everlasting fan support and unbreakable fighting spirit.

#Don'tFireRyder
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
    Originally posted by Papadoc
    I just think that WWE kind of sidelined Ryder to keep the rest of the company in check.

    If everyone saw what Ryder did, and tried to mimic it, they'd have a company full of wrestlers going outside of the company to create gimmicks and try to get themselves over. They can't have that, it would be chaos.

    It is a sweet story when it works for one guy, and it did. I think now is the time for Ryder to move along to a new gimmick, he has shown that he can be very entertaining. He can be an asset to the company, so hopefully he is around for a while.


This company could use that type of chaos. Its basically vanilla heels like ADR, Albert and a host of others with their one note gimmick of either evil loud mouth or foreigner with little or no connection to the fans. If its not the vanilla heels its the parade of bad comedy acts as faces who never win and win they do, they never do anything with it. I would like to see more people like Ryder at least attempt to do things to get over. D-Bry said it best in the Punk documentary there is a ton of guys in the back that are praying not to do anything, but get their paycheck and party. That is why Ryder is at least respected by Punk and the others, because he is willing to go the extra mile.



(edited by lotjx on 6.1.13 1609)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 68 days
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      When an interviewer says they really like Ryder, and Triple H laughs and says he has no fans, that's a hell of a sign right there that the glass ceiling is alive and well with the WWE.
    I somehow missed this quote from Triple H. Could you please point me to it?

    Also, I don't think you can just casually throw out "Vince/Hunter" as if they're the same person. I think over the past year we've seen quite a differentiation between what Vince believes and some of what Paul's been slowly introducing as he is able. If WWE were JUST Paul, I think this thread would be a lot different, but that point is still (probably) years away.


I'll try to find the video. I think Ryder might have used it in one of his shows, I'm not sure. Hunter was very dismissive, mockingly laughing at the idea that Ryder had a group of fans.

I say Vince/Hunter because for the most part we don't know which of them is making calls on what. I guess the / isn't meant to mean "and" as much as "or".
Wpob
Lap cheong








Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.95
That's a shame. I really like Zach and tipped my hat to him and how he was self made. But, as everyone said, being self made also killed him.

For a while I actually thought he was going to get the momentum up and eventually hit the ME. Silly me.

I wish him well when he leaves WWE - which most likely will be soon.



Life is hilariously cruel.






Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
    Originally posted by Wpob
    That's a shame. I really like Zach and tipped my hat to him and how he was self made. But, as everyone said, being self made also killed him.

    For a while I actually thought he was going to get the momentum up and eventually hit the ME. Silly me.

    I wish him well when he leaves WWE - which most likely will be soon.


Come on now. Being not all that talented and a wee bit on the obnoxious side killed him. Being a ripoff of a show people watched to make fun of the participants killed him. It's a testament to his hard work that he got as far as he did, but let's not pretend he was a bigtime star-in-the-making that got illicitly kneecapped. He hit his peak and has tumbled back down.
Chumpstain
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 10 days
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
There's been a few people in this thread who have called Zack Ryder a ripoff of Jersey Shore. Zack's current gimmick actually debuted in ECW before the Jersey Shore TV show started.
CHAPLOW
Morcilla








Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

Since last post: 130 days
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.64
I'd say a lot of people -including posters in this thread- are confusing the question of whether or not Zack Ryder is over with the question of whether or not they personally like his character.

Zack Ryder was intentionally buried over the span of an entire calendar year; That's really all there is to it.
wannaberockstar
Morcilla








Since: 7.3.02
From: MA

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.12
    Originally posted by CHAPLOW
    Zack Ryder was intentionally buried over the span of an entire calendar year; That's really all there is to it.


So being in high profile storylines with John Cena, Kane, and CM Punk and having a chance at the US title is being "intentionally buried"?

Zack Ryder is essentially WWE's version of Eric Young. He's amusing for the first few minutes, gets tiring shortly after, and has been given quite a nice run despite not being that good or entertaining.
Chumpstain
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 10 days
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
When the high-profile storyline with John Cena and Kane involved him losing every match to Kane and every physical alteration with Kane and losing his US Title due to injuries inflicted by Kane, then yes, that's being intentionally buried. They didn't even care enough to give him the mandatory rematch that every champion is supposed to get after losing a title.

Look no farther than something everyone liked in 2012, the Daniel Bryan and Kane feud/storyline. Bryan is smaller than Ryder (and undoubtedly a better wrestler, don't get me wrong), but he wasn't put against Kane to get buried. He showed little fear, and was able to go toe to toe with Kane on several occasions. Kane bumped big for him in some of the matches they had! Compare that to Ryder, who didn't mount a lick of offense against Kane in any of their encounters. Yeah, in June he won a battle royal by fluke by pulling down the ropes to dump Kane outside. That doesn't make up for the damage done between January and March. Hell, it was Zack Ryder being manipulated by Eve that set up the reign of terror known as People Power.

I can't pretend to know what's going on backstage that would sour people on Ryder, but it is unfortunate that his efforts to get himself over that had done so well for him at the end of 2011 were cut off in 2012. I don't know that he's going to quit or get fired, as WWE is still WWE, but creative definitely missed the boat here. There's no reason Ryder couldn't be hanging around as a Kofi-level midcard threat. Why they pulled the rug out from under him like they did, all we can do is speculate.
Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

Since last post: 16 days
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
      Originally posted by CRZ
        Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
        When an interviewer says they really like Ryder, and Triple H laughs and says he has no fans, that's a hell of a sign right there that the glass ceiling is alive and well with the WWE.
      I somehow missed this quote from Triple H. Could you please point me to it?

      Also, I don't think you can just casually throw out "Vince/Hunter" as if they're the same person. I think over the past year we've seen quite a differentiation between what Vince believes and some of what Paul's been slowly introducing as he is able. If WWE were JUST Paul, I think this thread would be a lot different, but that point is still (probably) years away.


    I'll try to find the video. I think Ryder might have used it in one of his shows, I'm not sure. Hunter was very dismissive, mockingly laughing at the idea that Ryder had a group of fans.

    I say Vince/Hunter because for the most part we don't know which of them is making calls on what. I guess the / isn't meant to mean "and" as much as "or".


I'm thinking this may be what is being referenced (go to 7:50 for Miz's take on Ryder and contrast that with Triple H at 8:25):



I don't think Ryder was given enough of a chance to showcase whether or not he could really stay over with the fans and I think the start of that Eve/Cena/Ryder storyline pretty much squashed any chance of him regaining his popularity whether or not they pushed him again.

Not to say there aren't a bazillion wrestlers who you could say this about. There are only a few spots to fill those top tiers and, as a face, you pretty much have to be spot on during your entire initial push to keep the E pushing you... or be Sheamus.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 9 days
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Originally posted by CHAPLOW
      Zack Ryder was intentionally buried over the span of an entire calendar year; That's really all there is to it.


    So being in high profile storylines with John Cena, Kane, and CM Punk and having a chance at the US title is being "intentionally buried"?


He was involved in high profile storylines like a piñata is an honored guest at a high profile party.

    Originally posted by Chumpstain
    There's no reason Ryder couldn't be hanging around as a Kofi-level midcard threat.


It's as simple as that. I mean, it'd be one thing if people were arguing a hypothetical and he hadn't already actually succeeded during the one month he was treated as a character with dignity and a shred of credibility, but he did, it already happened.
CRZ
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    I'm thinking this may be what is being referenced (go to 7:50 for Miz's take on Ryder and contrast that with Triple H at 8:25):
Geez, if THAT'S what you're basing it on...I mean that particular video was taped, like, a month after Ryder had started doing his series. I think it's safe to say Triple H wouldn't have given that same answer in July (when Ryder was made Teddy Long's assistant) or in September (when Ryder was Hugh Jackman's guy on RAW) or in December (when Ryder was booked to win the US championship). I mean, kudos to the interviewer for being the first guy on the bandwagon, but to take that quote and write it in stone as WWE's final opinion on Zack Ryder's push - that's nonsense.



Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
      I'm thinking this may be what is being referenced (go to 7:50 for Miz's take on Ryder and contrast that with Triple H at 8:25):
    Geez, if THAT'S what you're basing it on...I mean that particular video was taped, like, a month after Ryder had started doing his series. I think it's safe to say Triple H wouldn't have given that same answer in July (when Ryder was made Teddy Long's assistant) or in September (when Ryder was Hugh Jackman's guy on RAW) or in December (when Ryder was booked to win the US championship). I mean, kudos to the interviewer for being the first guy on the bandwagon, but to take that quote and write it in stone as WWE's final opinion on Zack Ryder's push - that's nonsense.


I disagree.

Triple H is the guy who's in charge or hiring and pushing new and current talent, and yet Cena, Punk, and any number of other wrestlers currently on roster and working the road have done a better job of talking up new guys. Triple H has ONE job to do when doing this types of interviews and that's to talk up the company/talent. When he thinks so little of a guy that he can't keep from shooting down an interviewer who thinks Ryder has talent, that says something.

If you want some evidence, just look at pretty much the entirety of 2012 and what Zack's push was from beginning to end. Ryder did all he can do is try to make jokes about how bad they treated him.

The WWE decided their position for Ryder was going to be prelim joke guy, and damn him for trying to be more than that. It's no different than Charlie Haas hearing straight from McMahon that he was in shit because Haas put too much effort into a match. Haas found out the hard way that this isn't the 90's with Hart and Michaels winning people over backstage. The company wasn't looking to move guys up the roster, only a select few that they predetermine will be stars. In 2012, Ryder found that out too.

(edited by Tribal Prophet on 7.1.13 1417)
CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
I love how you say "well, just look at 2012" as if 2011 didn't happen. You're carefully excising the parts of history that don't agree with your world view and expecting me to be convinced. Hell, even in that linked video you're so focused like a laser beam that you're ignoring that in teh SAME answer, not even ten seconds AFTER Triple H's quip, he says that he's hoping guys like Zack Ryder are the future of the business.

Has WWE squandered Zack Ryder? Perhaps they could have made some different decisions. Perhaps they still have some decisions to make. He's not out of the company yet.

Is Zack Ryder the bellweather superstar which we should point to when we're determining the overall well-being, direction, and fate of WWE the company? Probably not.

Can we look at Zack Ryder and know exactly what Vince and Paul are thinking in how WWE is guided for the next decade? Hell no, we can't.

Shoot, I'm not even sure what my point was.



Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Can we look at Zack Ryder and know exactly what Vince and Paul are thinking in how WWE is guided for the next decade? Hell no, we can't.


No, but we can certainly look at the last decade and be entitled to not give this company the benefit of the doubt anymore. They no longer demonstrate competence to execute even the most basic storytelling. See Seamus, monster heel, running from Nexus like a bitch. See The Rock, one of the biggest stars in the history of the business, having his first match in seven years in the same historic arena and at the same event in which he debuted, and having his reason for wrestling being "fans on twitter said they wanted me to". Look even at Dolph Ziggler, who wins money in the bank and loses constantly.

Zach got himself over, certainly was mishandled, and it's probably true that his specific case is not necessarily by itself evidence of the overall cretive health of WWE. But he is yet another prominent example of their inability to get abso-fucking-lutely anything right, even when it gets handed to them.



EDIT: I would add, for the sake of being fair, that I think they've handled Shield extremely well so far, and Ryback reasonably well. So that's something. But I still find them pretty inept creatively.



(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 7.1.13 1402)

Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
Papadoc
Bauerwurst








Since: 14.1.04
From: NY

Since last post: 35 days
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.31
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Hell, even in that linked video you're so focused like a laser beam that you're ignoring that in teh SAME answer, not even ten seconds AFTER Triple H's quip, he says that he's hoping guys like Zack Ryder are the future of the business.


Exactly. The first little part was Triple H the character talking, the rest was Triple H the exec talking. I'd be worried about what the exec says, not the character

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