The W
Views: 98593082
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
1.9.14 1335
The W - Baseball - Are the Yankees finished?
This thread has 16 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Thread rated: 5.37
Pages: 1 2 Next
(1121 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (25 total)
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1217 days
Last activity: 1014 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
So far this offseason, the yankees:

- have traded the farm for Javier Vazquez

- Signed all-world relievers Flash Gordon and Paul Quantrill

- Signed Gary Sheffield....maybe

- Lost Andy Pettite due to apathy; and

- are about to trade for Kevin Brown.


This team is looking more and more like the 1980s teams when Steinbrenner was way to into the day-to-day operations. Is anybody else as excited by the fact that the Yankee juggernaut may be finally crumbling?



The history of taxation shows that taxes which are inherently excessive are not paid. The high rates inevitably put pressure upon the taxpayer to withdraw his capital from productive business.
- Andrew Mellon
Promote this thread!
Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 18 min.
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.84
I'm ec-freaking-static.

Their rotation could potentially look like this: Two good pitchers (Mike Mussina and Javier Vazquez), a guy with a weight problem and a bad back (David Wells), a guy that's had more health problems the last four years than almost anyone in baseball(Kevin Brown-maybe), a 50 year old 32 year old Cuban (Jose Contreras), and a guy coming off TJ surgery (Jon Lieber). Now, if they DON'T deal Jeff Weaver for Brown, they'll have Weaver in the mix as well. That's a whole different can of worms.



Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 16 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
Edited to add that my local news just repoted that Pettitte signed with Houston officially, and the Yankees dealt two minor leaguers and Lieber to Los Angeles for Kevin Brown.

Vazquez and Mussina are solid, though it's yet to be seen how V adjusts to the American League. Kevin Brown (all together now, IF HE STAYS HEALTHY) is one of the best in the game, so he'd be a calculated risk.

I tell ya, it's the curse of 2000. The all-NY World Series was such a self-absorbed orgy for New York that the baseball gods have finally said "Enough!" The Yankees and Mets are about to go on a Chicago-esque futility streak.

(edited by Big Bad on 11.12.03 1701)


Oh Tino...put some pants on for God's sake.-- Chuckc14 in the Worst Album Covers thread Click Here (The W)

Manny [Ramirez] could show up for spring training with ice-blue hair, a "Free Lee Boyd Malvo" tattoo and a batting helmet made out of chorizo and I wouldn't be surprised. Hey, it's just Manny being Manny.-- Bill Simmons

Watching "Mad Dog Time" is like waiting for the bus in a city where you're not sure they have a bus line.-- Roger Ebert
Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 18 min.
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
I think you misheard...its Weaver as the major leaguer, two minor leaguers, and 3 million in cash.Click Here (sports.espn.go.com)

(edited by Whitebacon on 11.12.03 1553)


Stefonics
Bockwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

Since last post: 15 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I tell ya, it's the curse of 2000. The all-NY World Series was such a self-absorbed orgy for New York that the baseball gods have finally said "Enough!" The Yankees and Mets are about to go on a Chicago-esque futility streak.

What the hell are you talking about? The Mets have been on a "Chicago-esque futility streak" for their whole existence, minus several trips to the big dance. They've been mired in stupidity/mediocrity since 86. When they win, it's more often than not because they're lucky. The Mets have roughly one-thirteenth the amount of championships that the Yankees do. So don't tell me that the Mets deserve to go into a "Chicago-esque" funk... they're already there.



"What you don't understand, you can make mean anything."
-Palahniuk
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 16 hours
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
The Mets have won two World titles since 1962 and been to two other World Series. I think the White Sox and Cubs would KILL for that kind of "futility."



Oh Tino...put some pants on for God's sake.-- Chuckc14 in the Worst Album Covers thread Click Here (The W)

Manny [Ramirez] could show up for spring training with ice-blue hair, a "Free Lee Boyd Malvo" tattoo and a batting helmet made out of chorizo and I wouldn't be surprised. Hey, it's just Manny being Manny.-- Bill Simmons

Watching "Mad Dog Time" is like waiting for the bus in a city where you're not sure they have a bus line.-- Roger Ebert
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3326 days
Last activity: 3235 days
ICQ:  
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.10
The Yanks have a talent roster so deep that you can't write them off. The second they look like they might fall from contention Steinbrenner will snatch up future free agents and high priced guys from small market teams until he's in the hunt again.

But I agree, the unbeatable mystique is gone now. Who's left from the late 90s run now? Jeter, Rivera, and Bernie? That's all well and good, but without O'Neill, without Tino, and now without Pettitte they just aren't that unstoppable unit anymore. That team really was much greater than the sum of it's parts, and that's what made the difference. Now they're just a high priced team of all stars...not that that's anything to scoff at, but it's not the same.



The Toronto Maple Leafs are built for the playoffs. Of course they are. What Leafs fans don't realize, though, is "built for the playoffs" is just GM-speak for "short on skill, kinda slow, and can't score over an 80 game season".
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    The Mets have won two World titles since 1962 and been to two other World Series. I think the White Sox and Cubs would KILL for that kind of "futility."


We wouldn't actually kill for that - we leave the killing to the New Yorkers (Child sacrifice to the Dark One is the only way I can explain how the Damn Yankees have won a zillion World Series)

But that's the kind of futility I would trade for...



We'll be back as soon as order is restored.....
Gugs
Bierwurst








Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)

Since last post: 466 days
Last activity: 3 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.20
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    That team really was much greater than the sum of it's parts, and that's what made the difference. Now they're just a high priced team of all stars...not that that's anything to scoff at, but it's not the same.


Amen, BVM.

The Yankee Dynasty, to me, started dying in 2001 when Rivera couldn't get the job done in the World Series. The Yanks haven't been the same since, and it's going to be a while before they get up there again.



    Originally posted by ringmistress
    You may not believe this, but one year, I pretended I was a mistress (of the S&M variety). I was told I had the right voice for it. Just wanted to let you know that.


I love this place.
Dagent913
Bockwurst








Since: 18.11.02
From: Strong Island

Since last post: 3620 days
Last activity: 3151 days
AIM:  
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
I agree with BigVitoMark as well. I think they're still quite a few steps away from "crumbling," or being "finished," but they're definitely a different team now. In fact, I can accept that they probably won't win the Series again for at least a few more years. These new guys have to find their own form of team chemistry, like the 1996-2001 team did.





What if your grandfather was a kazoo?
Joseph Ryder
Head cheese








Since: 19.3.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 1147 days
Last activity: 680 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.05
Kevin Brown was only one of the best pitchers in the National League last year, and he's essentially replacing a very overrated pitcher in Andy Pettite. I don't see how the Yanks lost in this whole turn of events, unless you're going to convince me that Vazquez is a step DOWN from Clemens.

And I HATE the Yankees.

Edit: Vazquez's name

(edited by Joseph Ryder on 12.12.03 2315)
drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 14 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.17
How to Make the Wienerboard a Better Place, Chapter 1: Just because you can't spell "Heidenreich", doesn't make you clever.
    Originally posted by Joseph Ryder
    Kevin Brown was only one of the best pitchers in the National League last year, and he's essentially replacing a very overrated pitcher in Andy Pettite. I don't see how the Yanks lost in this whole turn of events, unless you're going to convince me that Vazquez is a step DOWN from Clemens.

    And I HATE the Yankees.

    Edit: Vazquez's name

    (edited by Joseph Ryder on 12.12.03 2315)


Yes, but Pettite's 32 and had the Red Sox's number. Brown's 39, the definition of "injury-prone" as of late, and... as far as I know, hasn't faced the Red Sox. Also, Pettite is a ground-ball pitcher, so the thinking is that it'll lessen the impact of pitching in Minute Maid. As for Vazquez, he's young, good, and has potential. Only two of those three things means anything.



Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of Joseph Ryder:

"Sure, some guys here and there started fondling his balls, but it's nothing to get jealous over."
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

Since last post: 2357 days
Last activity: 2357 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.22
    Originally posted by Grimis
    So far this offseason, the yankees:

    - have traded the farm for Javier Vazquez




Seems like a great trade to me. They gave up spare parts. It was essentially the same offer for Schilling and I'd rather have Vasquez in the long run. Nick isn't young anymore, he can't run, can't play defense, has no range, and is injury-prone. He can be easily replaced by a Spiezio-type bench player.



    - Signed all-world relievers Flash Gordon and Paul Quantrill



Those guys aren't All-Stars, I'd rather have signed Hawkins, but they ain't bad either. Any team would be glad to have them.



    - Signed Gary Sheffield....maybe



The Sheffield deal may be back on, I don't see anyone else throwing $40 million at the guy.



    - Lost Andy Pettite due to apathy; and



The offered Pettite $39 mil. over 3 years, he went to Houston for only $31.5 for 3. He gave them a hometown discount, because he would rather play in his hometown which is completely understandable.



    - are about to trade for Kevin Brown.




I'd give up Weaver for a bag of chips, Brown is a top pitcher when healthy. All they need is to give him the private jets.



    This team is looking more and more like the 1980s teams when Steinbrenner was way to into the day-to-day operations. Is anybody else as excited by the fact that the Yankee juggernaut may be finally crumbling?



It still seems like a great team to me. I'm looking foward to the playoffs yet again.
Gugs
Bierwurst








Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)

Since last post: 466 days
Last activity: 3 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.20
Andy Pettitte may be overrated (which I disagree with), but he is a left-handed pitcher, something that is becoming all too rare to find in today's game. Pettitte always comes up big in big games, and as drjayphd said, has the Red Sox' number. Kevin Brown is probably not going to be Roger Clemens; Clemens had already won a Cy Young in Toronto and proved he could still pitch, while Brown is a question mark.

BTW, Clemens wants to pitch with Pettitte in houston? Woohoo! Choke on that, New York!



    Originally posted by ringmistress
    You may not believe this, but one year, I pretended I was a mistress (of the S&M variety). I was told I had the right voice for it. Just wanted to let you know that.


I love this place.
Joseph Ryder
Head cheese








Since: 19.3.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 1147 days
Last activity: 680 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.05
    Originally posted by gugs
    Andy Pettitte may be overrated (which I disagree with), but he is a left-handed pitcher, something that is becoming all too rare to find in today's game. Pettitte always comes up big in big games, and as drjayphd said, has the Red Sox' number. Kevin Brown is probably not going to be Roger Clemens; Clemens had already won a Cy Young in Toronto and proved he could still pitch, while Brown is a question mark.


First off, where is it being stated that lefties are becoming rare in baseball?

Look, if you guys are going to continually declare Pettitte this huge big-game pitcher, I'm going to need to see some evidence. All I know is that in his post-season career, he's 13-8 with a decidedly mediocre 4.05 ERA. Oh yeah, and as far as big games go, he lost Game 7 a couple months ago...to the MARLINS. Doesn't get much bigger than that.

It's also been said he has the Sox's number. In 2003, he was 4-1 with a 4.90 ERA against Boston (including playoffs). That ERA is nearly a run worse than his 2003 regular-season ERA. I know the "4-1" is really pretty, but let's face facts...which we can do by simply glancing at the lineups New York has been blessed with: he didn't have their number.

This may have been missed by some of you on the east coast, but while Pettitte may be a "great" groundball pitcher (he's merely "good"), Brown is even GREATER (over three and a quarter GB/FB ratio last year). I think when Brown posted a 2.39 ERA last year, he proved he could not only still pitch, but he could pitch much better than Clemens who, despite a slightly better W/L record (thank you, Steinbrenner), posted an ERA of...wait for it... 3.91.

In other words, to wrap this all up, I don't think we should be celebrating the Yankees' crumbling dynasty. Their pitching staff is, on paper, even better than last year.
drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 14 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.17
How to Make the Wienerboard a Better Place, Chapter 1: Just because you can't spell "Heidenreich", doesn't make you clever.
skorpio: I'd hate to see Giambi's defense if Nick Johnson "can't play defense"... some of the times when Johnson was at 1B and Giambi DH were for defensive reasons. Besides, they had OBP Jesus there, and got rid of him... how'd the Yankees have such an effective offense in their most recent title runs? On-base percentage. And since when is he "not young"? You say that like he farts dust or something... he's only 25. Also, you could say that Pettite was willing to take less money not just because of the hometown discount, but also because the Yankees blew him off. Although it's kinda hard to argue with trading Weaver, especially when you can get anyone better than, say, Neifi Perez for the guy.



Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of Joseph Ryder:

"Sure, some guys here and there started fondling his balls, but it's nothing to get jealous over."
petexcrct3
Medisterpoelse








Since: 13.12.03
From: Coventry, RI

Since last post: 3914 days
Last activity: 3913 days
AIM:  
#17 Posted on
as much as i love the yankees....i thoguht they were going to become some like super team once they lost the world series. their main focus should have been getting excellent pitchign and getting rid of their bad guys. they should have resigned petite, try to get colon, and try to get liek schilling before he went to the sox. sheffield is probably one only really good thing their going to get. but they dont need hitting.
evilwaldo
Lap cheong








Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3356 days
Last activity: 3136 days
AIM:  
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
The Yankees problem is this: The team, outside of Joe Torre, has no heart and none of their offseason moves solve that problem. This is actually fun watching the dynasty crumble.






mmmmmm, Breakfast (x-entertainment.com)
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.56
    Originally posted by Grimis
    So far this offseason, the yankees:

    - have traded the farm for Javier Vazquez

    - Signed all-world relievers Flash Gordon and Paul Quantrill

    - Signed Gary Sheffield....maybe

    - Lost Andy Pettite due to apathy; and

    - are about to trade for Kevin Brown.


    This team is looking more and more like the 1980s teams when Steinbrenner was way to into the day-to-day operations. Is anybody else as excited by the fact that the Yankee juggernaut may be finally crumbling?


This looks like a great time for the AL. Until Steinbrenner is forced to take a backseat when he is suspended or some such event, the Yankee turmoil will benefit teams like the BoSox and Orioles. I do agree that they are deep enough that they aren't screwed up totally yet. But George nees to let his baseball guys do their job like they did in the early-mid ninetes.



Perception is reality
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2778 days
Last activity: 2621 days
AIM:  
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    Nick isn't young anymore, he can't run, can't play defense, has no range, and is injury-prone. He can be easily replaced by a Spiezio-type bench player.


JohnsonSpiezio
Age2533
2003 OBP.422.331
2003 HR1416
PA/HR2332
2003 SB56
2003 Runs6069


If you'd like to continue to compare Nick Johnson to Scott Spiezio, be my guest. But - and maybe this is just me - when I look at the FACTS, I notice that, in ~200 fewer plate appearances, Nick Johnson stole one fewer base, belted 2 fewer home runs, and scored a mere 9 fewer runs that Scott Spiezio. Oh, and his OBP was 90 points higher. Johnson is young (even if you think 25 is old), he's an excellent hitter (even if you don't believe in "statistics"), and he can be your full-time 1B next year when Bernie retires and Giambi's knee forces him into permanent DH duty (even if you prefer Spiezio).

Then again, he is injury prone. Not at all like Kevin Brown.

Edit: Someone help me get rid of that giant gap between the quote and the table, and tell me what I did wrong?

(edited by PalpatineW on 17.12.03 0609)

{EDIT: You gotta remove all the linefeeds in your table code - CRZ }

(edited by CRZ on 17.12.03 2025)

Pages: 1 2 Next
Thread rated: 5.37
Pages: 1 2 Next
Thread ahead: Public to Brewers: Open up your damn books!
Next thread: A radical idea
Previous thread: Super Tuesday (Colon, etc)
(1121 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
The Rangers said that MLB never even called them. But, they were on the road yesterday and have a three game series against Detroit today through Wed. So, they could have easily played yesterday in the Rangers' ballpark.
Related threads: Vazquez a Yankee - Gordon, Quantrill to Yanks - Maybe Clemens really IS done.... - More...
The W - Baseball - Are the Yankees finished?Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.203 seconds.