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The W - Pro Wrestling - Anyone see the purpose of Flair going over Hurricane? (Page 2)
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RawLo
Salami








Since: 9.7.02
From: San Diego, CA

Since last post: 3614 days
Last activity: 2859 days
#21 Posted on
I acutally liked the fact that HHH gave him the pedigree afterwards... it makes him the despicable heel even more. (And I am not on the HHH bandwagon right now.)
If his in-ring work is getting crapped on all over the internet- than maybe some old-school heel tactics will help his character.
As a non-fan of HHH, I still loved it...

And Flair needed something to make him look strong. I don't consider Flair simply a "manager". Anyone who watched Flair in the 80's cannot look at him and think of him as simply a manager.
If Hogan was to become someone's manager- I don't think anyone would think of him as some weak-ass manager.



I was there....When Chris Jericho beat Austin and Rock in the same night to become the first ever Undisputed Champion!
(And for the incredible Eddie/ Edge "no DQ"!!!)
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#22 Posted on

    Originally posted by The 5th Horseman

      Originally posted by Stinger
      People are questioning the fact that Ric Flair beat the Hurricane???

      I can't believe this


    Well, this isn't 1990 and Flair isn't even a full time wrestler anymore. How does it help the WWE to job out one of the young stars to Flair,



That's the problem with your argument there. The Hurricane isn't a 'young star'. He's a young comedy act. At best, he's a midcard comic relief character that only wrestles halfway through the show after doing a quick comedy-based interview in the back. The fact that he's involved with so many top guys stands to show that he's doing exceptionally well at his job. Until he's got a character that can seem like a threat to people, his position in the company won't change. Knowing the WWE, I can't see it changing anyways until he really bulks up.

Besides, the fact is that he was in the ring with Ric 'By God' Flair, and Flair made the Hurricane look great for most of the match. We can cry all we want about "making new stars" but one win isn't going to do it. Neither will 10 losses for that matter. Shit, the Rock loses about 90% of his matches, and he's the greatest wrestler in the world right now. Being that it's a fixed sport, unless the match is for the title, the win is quickly forgotten and all fans (except people here it seems) remember is what they thought of the guy during the match.

For the record, I wouldn't see the purpose of Hurricane going over Flair.


Tribal Prophet



Wrestling exists in the eternal present. What is, has always been, and when it no longer is, it never was. It has no past and no future, and sometimes even today is in question. - Madame Manga

Click Here (welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com)
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 9 hours
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#23 Posted on

    Originally posted by Devil's Advocate
      Originally posted by OMEGA
      If getting treated like a jobber while in the ring with top talent is how they plan on pushing people, then the main-event scene will be stuck in a rut for a LONG time.

      But hey, it worked well for RVD and Booker T, didn't it?



    Right, the same Booker T that beat Hunter cleanly in almost all of their matches, who came this close to winning the World on two occasions....

    (edited by Devil's Advocate on 13.5.03 1414)


Yep, the same Booker T that jobbed clean in both the title matches (including WM, where it took only 1 Pedigree to finish him [when other ME'ers were able to kick out of finishers], and HHH took his sweet time to make the pin), was an afterthought in the 6-man tag, got beat up by 3 Minute Warning, then had a meaningless match against Lance Storm.

I hope Booker's ass has healed from being booted back to the mid-card.



kokolums2
Bauerwurst








Since: 10.6.02

Since last post: 3417 days
Last activity: 3417 days
#24 Posted on
You guys are all acting like that match concluded the feud. How do you know where this is going? Have you thought about the possbility that the Hurricane will get the last laugh in the near future?

Well, if anything, that loss already cooked up some rooting interest among the crowd here, so that's a good thing.
Devil's Advocate
Haggis








Since: 22.2.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3389 days
Last activity: 3145 days
#25 Posted on

    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    Yep, the same Booker T that jobbed clean in both the title matches


Nope. The second match ended in a big schmozz, remember? Booker was one second away from winning, until Flair and Jericho ran in to save Hunter's ass.

Anyway, that's all pretty much irrelevant to the actual issue - HHH treating Booker like a jobber during their matches. Since Booker actually won the majority of those, that just isn't so.



"...like the whole idea of a 'war on terrorism'. You can wage war against another country, or on a national group within your own country, but you can't wage war on an abstract noun. How do you know when you've won? When you've got it removed from the Oxford English Dictionary?" ~ Terry Jones

Unabashed HHH mark: because even megalomaniacs need love.
Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 1899 days
Last activity: 1424 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
Flair has put so many people over lately that he needed a decent gut check type win to give him some credibility. He will then use this cred to put over even more people because he is The Man.

The ever-changing audience needs to be reminded every so often why Ric is the best off all time. I can't believe there is even a reason to question that he deserved the win. Besides, he has his ass hanging out for what seemed like an eternity for God's sake. Give him one freakin W, ok?



Vega14k
Cotechino








Since: 10.5.03

Since last post: 4072 days
Last activity: 3859 days
#27 Posted on
I don't like HHH.

BUT - I loved the pedigree afterwards. It was a heelish thing for a heel to do because heeling is heelish and he is a heel who should heelishly heel.

Seriously, it made HHH look like a total dick - picking on 180 lbs Hurricane after he was beaten by Ric Flair - just because he CAN.

(HHH is a heel.)

XPacArmy
Frankfurter








Since: 13.5.03
From: Woodbridge, VA

Since last post: 260 days
Last activity: 257 days
#28 Posted on
Maybe they had HHH add the pedigree at the end so Hurricane would seek revenge. Maybe, lets say Sunday, where HHH's biggest prize is on the line, and Hurricane could screw him out of it.

Just to bad there is no way somehow Y2J could walk out champ instead of HHH or Nash but oh well.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1338 days
Last activity: 246 days
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Frankly, if Nash and Triple H are gonna feud for a bit, then Nash will contend with both their leg-centered submission moves -- the Figure Four and the Indian Deathlock. Reminding fans that the move can still do some harm, it COULD add some intrigue to their efforts to hobble Nash again.


And have you SEEN those legs?

Click Here (geocities.com)

Sheesh, he should tap at the mere MENTION of a figure four.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


Vega14k
Cotechino








Since: 10.5.03

Since last post: 4072 days
Last activity: 3859 days
#30 Posted on
Uhh . . .

. . . please, tell me that's a composite . . .

dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 2 days
#31 Posted on

    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    Yep, the same Booker T that jobbed clean in both the title matches (including WM, where it took only 1 Pedigree to finish him [when other ME'ers were able to kick out of finishers], and HHH took his sweet time to make the pin), was an afterthought in the 6-man tag, got beat up by 3 Minute Warning, then had a meaningless match against Lance Storm.

    I hope Booker's ass has healed from being booted back to the mid-card.



You watched WM right? You thought that was clean? I'm genuinely dumbfounded.

The only reason Triple H got the upper hand was because Ric Flair smashed Booker's knee off the ring steps. Hell if it wasn't for said knee being injured then Booker T would have been able to make the cover and pin Trips long before the end of the match.

So he didnt kick out of the pedigree. So what? The number of people kicking out of finishers was getting stupid at WM. And the idea of him taking his time to make the cover was that Booker was meant to have taken so much out of him, in spite of being up against both HHH and Flair.

End of the day, ypu can dress it up how you want but the last time I checked, managers getting involved to the stage where they prevent an opponent from being able to walk was frowned upon.

And the second match ended in a no contest cluster fuck, not my definition of 'clean' win either to be honest.

As for getting beaten up by 3MW and fightin Lance Storm, the guy turned up late for Backlash thus missing a meeting according to reports. I wouldnt be in the slightest bit surprised if this was his punishment.

And with regards Hurricane I'm pretty much with Tribal. Ever since he got the flukiest of flukes over Rock everyone here seems to think he should be going over all and sundry. He lost to the World champion and one of the most decorated wrestlers of all time, and looked pretty decent doing so.

Thats pretty much the guys level right now. He's built a gimmick on being the goofy superhero. The guy's Scotty 2 Hotty in a cape, he aint gonna be main eventing any time soon. If I was him I'd be grateful for the way I was being booked right now.



"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 10 min.
#32 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy

      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Frankly, if Nash and Triple H are gonna feud for a bit, then Nash will contend with both their leg-centered submission moves -- the Figure Four and the Indian Deathlock. Reminding fans that the move can still do some harm, it COULD add some intrigue to their efforts to hobble Nash again.


    And have you SEEN those legs?

    Click Here (geocities.com)

    Sheesh, he should tap at the mere MENTION of a figure four.



Wow, someone with smaller legs than Goldberg.
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 12 hours
#33 Posted on
Hey, it's like this. One man is going to the PPV to be involved in one of the main-event matches. The other may not even be on Heat that night. Can you tell which is which?
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3466 days
Last activity: 3466 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.59
If this gets a Hurricane/HHH fued with a face who deserves going over cleanly then I am all for it. However, this is still HHH's show and to be honest his company, right now. He will probably jobb it to Nash then get back at Bad Blood have it till Summerslam while cheating to win every match even though there is face GM Austin right there!

I don't havea problem with Hurricane losing to Flair to be honest, Flair can still go its just he picks times when he can go. I have a problem with something as obvious as a Hurricane/HHH fued being ignored or even worse having HHH come out on top. We all know that HHH will never lay down to anyone that isn't his best friend or someone who has more stroke than him in the company. If you want evidence take a good look who HHH has lost to in his PPV main events since his return and their outcomes. Loses to Kurt at No Way Out then gets his job back a few weeks later, Loses to Hogan, Hogan loses to Taker, Taker beats HHH, HHH jobs to Shawn, but the next night is crowned Heavyweight champion, loses to Shawn at Survivor Series after being the first man in and the last man to be pinned. Beats Shawn for the title a month later at Armaggedon. December was the last time HHH jobbed on PPV. That was a half a year ago!

Flair/Hurricane is an ok fued if you had someone who makes sense aligned with Hurricane like Kane, RVD or even Booker. Anyone from the Army of Freaks stable, Dudley Boyz, RVD, Booker, Goldust, Kane and Trish, would make a good ally for Hurricane. Nash is not that ally, he and Shawn are too busy hugging to notice anyone else. Flair beating Hurricane is ok if in Monday Night Hurricane comes down and beats HHH for the title.

It just pissses me off that the fans have loved through almost a complete year of hell in storyline terms when the heels have had the belt and been in control of the show then finally, they bring in a face GM. We see Austin not really do anything in regards to the title and just have him screw around with Bischoff and his posse. It just sucks that they actually brought in a good plot device, but don't know how to use it properly.

A Fan- I think this staff needs to go back to English 101
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 9 hours
AIM:  
#35 Posted on

    Originally posted by dMr

      Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      Yep, the same Booker T that jobbed clean in both the title matches (including WM, where it took only 1 Pedigree to finish him [when other ME'ers were able to kick out of finishers], and HHH took his sweet time to make the pin), was an afterthought in the 6-man tag, got beat up by 3 Minute Warning, then had a meaningless match against Lance Storm.

      I hope Booker's ass has healed from being booted back to the mid-card.



    You watched WM right? You thought that was clean? I'm genuinely dumbfounded.

    The only reason Triple H got the upper hand was because Ric Flair smashed Booker's knee off the ring steps. Hell if it wasn't for said knee being injured then Booker T would have been able to make the cover and pin Trips long before the end of the match.

    So he didnt kick out of the pedigree. So what? The number of people kicking out of finishers was getting stupid at WM. And the idea of him taking his time to make the cover was that Booker was meant to have taken so much out of him, in spite of being up against both HHH and Flair.

    End of the day, ypu can dress it up how you want but the last time I checked, managers getting involved to the stage where they prevent an opponent from being able to walk was frowned upon.

    And the second match ended in a no contest cluster fuck, not my definition of 'clean' win either to be honest.

    As for getting beaten up by 3MW and fightin Lance Storm, the guy turned up late for Backlash thus missing a meeting according to reports. I wouldnt be in the slightest bit surprised if this was his punishment.


When I say "clean", I mean HHH hit him w/ the Pedigree and pinned him, w/out any interference leading directly to it (i.e. Flair hitting Book w/ the belt, then Book running into the kick-wham-Pedigree).

As for kicking out, it does matter. When other established main-eventers were kicking out of their opponents' finishers, but Book doesn't, that makes him look below the others. Especially after HHH took his time making the pin, which is normally a sure-sign of an impending kick-out. All the other ME'ers were able to kick out of or escape from at least 1 finisher (IIRC) *except* Booker. Coincidence?

Yes, Raw was a cluster, my bad. Stupid memory. But if I *do* remember correctly, Book just disappeared shortly after the cluster started.

As for punishment, you don't have somebody who is supposedly being made a ME'er get beat up by 3MW. If Rock or HBK showed up late for a PPV, would they get the same treatment? If Angle or Taker showed up late for a PPV, would they take a stink-face from Rikishi? Bottom line, if that was his punishment, that was counter-productive. Do it behind the scenes (i.e. fine him, have Vince chew him out, etc.), don't make him look weak in the ring, because you're only hurting his character. If they were truly serious about making Book a ME'er, he wouldn't have gotten that treatment.



dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 2 days
#36 Posted on
Spiff, I stand by the fact that it was getting a bit out of hand with people kicking out of finishers left and right. By the end of the Rock/Austin match I was just wishing they would finish it already.

If everyone kicks out of finishers then it starts to become the norm and doesnt make anyone look stronger. And if HHH had rolled over and quickly made the pin we'd all have been up in arms about him no selling the whole match.

Since WM they've continued to put over the fact that HHH won through interference so its not like they've gone for a total burial.

Yeah it sucks a bit if the 3MW thing was punishment, maybe other guys wouldnt have had the same treatment. But at the end of the day he's relatively new to te company and hasnt achieved half of what the other guys you mentioned have, so its not to be totally unexpected that Vince might give him a bit of a warning.





"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 9 hours
AIM:  
#37 Posted on
Yeah, it was getting out of hand, but by now it's been established that ME'ers kick out of finishers in big matches. It just seems out of place when Booker doesn't, especially after the delayed cover.

And I get the "HHH was exhausted" argument, but whenever there is a delayed cover, 99.9% of the time a kick-out follows. Booker would have been elevated from kicking out of the Pedigree (since it is rarely done), and it would have added more drama to the match. HHH can look up in shock, then go about 5 more minutes after the kick-out, then HHH can hit a 2nd Pedigree and get the win (although I would have preferred to see Booker win).

The end result is that Booker, to me, hasn't really been elevated. He ended up back in the same spot (just below the ME) that he started. They had their chance to make him a major played on Raw (and let's face it, when Nash & HBK are the default top faces on Raw, the ME scene needs all the help it can get). Instead, it's "thanks for playing Book, enjoy your lovely parting gifts."

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 14.5.03 1616)


dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 2 days
#38 Posted on

    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    Instead, it's "thanks for playing Book, enjoy your lovely parting gifts."

    (edited by Spaceman Spiff on 14.5.03 1616)



He got gifts?! As long as one of them was one of those natty little Booker Bears from Shopzone he's got nothing to complain about

I'm willing to wait and see where they go with his character though. If his recent interview that someone posted here was anything to go by he was fairly happy with how the fight went, so it may well be that he knows where his character is going and it aint downhill. On top of which he indicated hes only gonna be around another 18 months so I can see why they wouldnt have him end HHH's reign.

With regards Nash you get no argument fom me about him being flung into the main event. You would think someone at creative might remember the name Scott Steiner, but apparently not. Having said that ratings ain't been bad since the feud started (though Austin and Goldberg have had a large part to play) so maybe the marks are seeing something we're not.



"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
Devil's Advocate
Haggis








Since: 22.2.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3389 days
Last activity: 3145 days
#39 Posted on

    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    All the other ME'ers were able to kick out of or escape from at least 1 finisher (IIRC) *except* Booker. Coincidence?


You recall wrong. Vince never escaped Hogan's legdrop. Hogan simply legdropped Vince 3 times in a row, and then pinned him. And you can exclude Hogan too, unless you count Vince using the legdrop.



"...like the whole idea of a 'war on terrorism'. You can wage war against another country, or on a national group within your own country, but you can't wage war on an abstract noun. How do you know when you've won? When you've got it removed from the Oxford English Dictionary?" ~ Terry Jones

Unabashed HHH mark: because even megalomaniacs need love.
darkmatcher
Bockwurst








Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

Since last post: 2585 days
Last activity: 1660 days
#40 Posted on
    Originally posted by asteroidboy

      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Frankly, if Nash and Triple H are gonna feud for a bit, then Nash will contend with both their leg-centered submission moves -- the Figure Four and the Indian Deathlock. Reminding fans that the move can still do some harm, it COULD add some intrigue to their efforts to hobble Nash again.


    And have you SEEN those legs?

    Click Here (geocities.com)

    Sheesh, he should tap at the mere MENTION of a figure four.




OMFG, tell me I didn't just see that! Christ. In WWE or Raw Magazine interview when Nash was asked his about his most embarassing moment he answered with something to the effect of, "At one show I forgot my pants and had to be out in nothing but underwear(or whatever those short tights are called.). Let's just say there's a reason Kevin Nash always wear pants".
I think we just found out.

(edited by darkmatcher on 14.5.03 1434)


fear hamburglar...
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