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The W - Pro Wrestling - Another WWE Main Eventer May Be Done After WMXX (Page 9)
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dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 2 days
#161 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.84
    Originally posted by JMShapiro
    "the fans whose money paid his contract"

    oh the sanctimony.


Uh, not really. You've taken one thing (quote would be stretching it) out of context. The gist of the post was that Brock owed a debt first and foremost to the company You don't walk out on a contract. Period.

The fact that fans did however contribute a great deal of money to his salary does give them a right to feel let down.

Like I said, I personally don't. I just think the guys acted like an ass.

Bulldog1980
Loukanika








Since: 11.3.04
From: Maidstone, England

Since last post: 3772 days
Last activity: 3761 days
#162 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by Boston Idol
    : Undertaker, an aged, brittle, slow, limited,
    selfish worker who is sure to drag down his
    matches and may even get to beat him.



    I may be a bit late on this one and i am sorry if i am but i have been watching the undertaker since his debut at survivor series in my mind he has worked hard for the wwe and always be quite loyal for years when hogan, scott hall, kevin nash, randy savage all walked out on wwe he stayed and brought one of the most exciting times for me to the wwe minstry of darkness. Brett hart said he was one of the best wrestlers to work with "you were safe with him" does this mean nothing to some of you or is he just old and dated and not entitled to carry a belt again?
UnsUwe
Chourico








Since: 6.7.02
From: Germany

Since last post: 471 days
Last activity: 114 days
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#163 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Interesting topic: a rumor somewhere in the internet causing wrestling fans to compare Lesnars and Undertakers win/loss record, and judging Brock Lesnar based on.......yeah, on what exactly? Nobody really knows, but everyone shares. Hello? Nobody finds it strange that this happens a few days before the biggest show of the year? The only purpose this serves is raising interest in the match. Congratulations WWE, mission accomplished. Enjoy the show.



Sweet dreams......
gps
Chaurice








Since: 8.3.04
From: Lexington, SC

Since last post: 3784 days
Last activity: 3782 days
#164 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
I still think this whole Lesnar thing is a gimmick by the WWE to make this match interesting.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 14 min.
Last activity: 4 sec.
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#165 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.83
    Originally posted by dMr
    The gist of the post was that Brock owed a debt first and foremost to the company You don't walk out on a contract. Period.

    The fact that fans did however contribute a great deal of money to his salary does give them a right to feel let down.

    Like I said, I personally don't. I just think the guys acted like an ass.




From what I have read, it sounds as if Lesnar is leaving with Vince's blessing. So, if Vince is willing to let him out of his contract, Lesnar has no obligation to Vince, WWE, or even its fans unless Vince gave him certain terms for his departure. So, as far as legality goes, it sounds like Lesnar has things worked out on his end. He's free.

If someone's a fan of Brock, they sure do have a right to feel let down. That's only natural. However, Brock really does owe nothing to them. I think that's something most fans lose sight of. Brock is getting paid to do his job. If we like what he does, but he dislikes what he does, what he likes/dislikes wins out. It's his life and, right now, he doesn't want to be a wrestler.

Of course, with Brock specifically, he was never pushed because we actually liked him. We were kinda forced to like him. People kinda forgot that part. He did develop into a great worker, and did justify his push (sort of), but WWE made him a star. Not us.


There is no way this is just a work just to hype up WrestleMania. None.

If this is any sort of "work," it is only on Vince's side. Lesnar has neither the acting ability, nor the incentive to participate in a work like this and lie to his fellow independent contractors. According to Meltzer, he has verified that Lesnar has told his friends the same thing.

Vince, however, knows that Lesnar is only 26 and is willing to let him go, because he knows he'll be back someday. After all, where else can this guy go and make that kind of money? Now is the time to let Lesnar go so that he'll come back down the road. No sense in making the man do something he doesn't want to. Especially since Lesnar gives no immediate upside except as a spot-filler on the card. He isn't a draw right now, but in his big return match, he might be. Lesnar isn't fresh at the moment.

So, from Vince's perspective, he's not taking a huge risk here and feels like he is in control of the situation. There is no way the NFL thing will work out, and Lesnar has never really had an extended absence from wrestling, so after being away from it for a while, Brock will get the withdrawl all wrestlers go for because they're addicted to the pop.

Vince is the ultimate puppet master, and he isn't playing us, but he is playing Brock.

But, I believe Brock is dead serious about this.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 11.3.04 0800)
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#166 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19

Has anyone else wondered if Dan Snyder already has Lesnar's number on speed dial?




I'm like, angry at numbers.
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1234 days
Last activity: 568 days
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#167 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.44
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    There is no way the NFL thing will work out


While it is a very, very remote chance that it will work out, to say there is "no way" is going too far. He is a 295-pound amazing natural athlete, and if he's even bothering with this, one assumes someone has told him he can do it. It would take years for him to ever do anything, but it isn't like you can really say he's undedicated to anything he does. No amateur wrestler that achieves what he did is an undedicated athlete, because it's a very hard sport. And he was also very dedicated as a pro wrestler, coming a long way in a short time, accomplishing everything he could rapidly, and then he had nothing else to work for. In some ways it's assumedly just a part of his personality.

(edited by ScottieKStones on 11.3.04 1041)


Scott Christ
All them women gonna make me teach 'em what they don't know how.

spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 6 days
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#168 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.85
    Originally posted by JMShapiro
    "Brock has forgotten that, at the end of the day, he's just an actor on a television show. If Rachel ends up with Ross, is Joey gonna storm out and raise a fuss? No. Because even Matt LeBlanc, no matter how dumb he plays on TV, is smarter than that."

    Bwahaha yes remember when Joey landed on his head and almost broke his neck in Barbados? Furthermore, the travel schedules -- all but identical.



Lesnar is a hybrid, he's a tv actor as well as a touring performer. But in the end, even though the reality of the physical action is undeniable, he is still simply playing a character on tv. Just that unlike random Klingon #4 from DS9 or something, he doesn't make his money hanging out at comic conventions with the kinds of people DEAN~! depicts in the Workrate Reports, instead he performs as his character in non-televised settings. The comparison is still valid, except in that Joey, Rachel and Ross draw a LOT more money for their network than Brock, Kurt, and Eddie.



Toil not to gain wealth, cease to be concerned about it. Proverbs 23:4
Stilton
Frankfurter








Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 3090 days
Last activity: 3090 days
#169 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.06
    Originally posted by ScottieKStones
    And he was also very dedicated as a pro wrestler...

    (edited by ScottieKStones on 11.3.04 1041)


Until...?

The only thing Brock is dedicated to is Brock Lesnar. Part of his personality seems to be "it's my way or the highway". Not a very good attribute for a football player. Football is a team sport. I suspect Brock excelled in amateur wrestling because it's an individual sport. He didn't have to share the credit or the glory with anyone. And that's why he cringes at the idea of putting anyone over himself. So, Brock's not happy being youngest, hardest-pushed wrestler in WWE history? Assuming he gets a rookie contract with even the shittiest NFL team, how's he gonna feel sitting on the bench while his team-mates (who've got years of experience playing competitive football) are on the field making the crowd roar. He's not gonna like it. He just might walk out on them, too.


(edited by Stilton on 11.3.04 1101)

(edited by Stilton on 11.3.04 1103)

So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#170 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19

There's an article from the Miami Herald the talks about Lesnar leaving and then speculates that Goldberg might be staying ... I don't know the credibility of this guy, so take it with a grain of salt ...

http://www.miami.com/ mld/miamiherald/sports/ wrestling/8157596.htm






I'm like, angry at numbers.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 3 hours
AIM:  
#171 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    Vince, however, knows that Lesnar is only 26 and is willing to let him go, because he knows he'll be back someday. After all, where else can this guy go and make that kind of money?

I'm sure he could make a ton in Japan, while dealing w/ an easier travel schedule (outside of flights to/from Japan). He'd be, IMO, a huge draw there (big, strong foreigner), and I'm sure promoters there would jump at the chance to bring him in (young, amateur background, developing into a fantastic worker) provided he has no problems doing jobs to the native guys.

EDIT: provided the terms of his release don't preclude such employment, obviously.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 11.3.04 1155)


SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1234 days
Last activity: 568 days
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#172 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.44
    Originally posted by Stilton
      Originally posted by ScottieKStones
      And he was also very dedicated as a pro wrestler...

      (edited by ScottieKStones on 11.3.04 1041)


    Until...?


Until he achieved everything he could and had nothing left to do. You might not think what he's doing is right by anyone but him (and you don't, and that's understandable) but he worked very, very hard over his time in the business. If he hadn't been on top so quickly, he'd still have something to work for. I'm not saying it's a good way to go about it, but just trying to see things from what may (or may not) be his perspective.

    Originally posted by Stilton
    So, Brock's not happy being youngest, hardest-pushed wrestler in WWE history?


He's not happy with the travel schedule and he's not happy with the business and all that it entails. I'm sure he was perfectly happy being pushed hard, but once you do that for almost two years, and then there's nothing for him to do but stuff he's already done, maybe he didn't see the point in it anymore.

I wasn't necessarily saying he was dedicated to the profession as a whole, but dedicated to making himself great. He was going to be on top either way, but he had the dedication to become very good at his job at the same time, which isn't easy, and isn't at all common in such a short period of time.



Scott Christ
All them women gonna make me teach 'em what they don't know how.

Von Maestro
Boudin rouge








Since: 6.1.04
From: New York

Since last post: 131 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#173 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.49
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    I'm sure he could make a ton in Japan, while dealing w/ an easier travel schedule (outside of flights to/from Japan). He'd be, IMO, a huge draw there (big, strong foreigner), and I'm sure promoters there would jump at the chance to bring him in (young, amateur background, developing into a fantastic worker) provided he has no problems doing jobs to the native guys.


Even if he leaves the WWE now (which I'm not really sold on just yet), I doubt he would be able to work for any other wrestling company. I'm sure his contract has some sort of non-compete clause that would preclude Brock from wrestling anywhere else while still under contract with the E...
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 3 hours
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#174 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
Yeah, I just edited my original to include that caveat at the same time you posted that.



HairRaiser
Kishke








Since: 13.1.03
From: S. Attleboro, MA

Since last post: 2517 days
Last activity: 1852 days
#175 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.64
    Originally posted by Von Maestro
    Even if he leaves the WWE now (which I'm not really sold on just yet), I doubt he would be able to work for any other wrestling company. I'm sure his contract has some sort of non-compete clause that would preclude Brock from wrestling anywhere else while still under contract with the E...


If he wasn't really being used, as in Spanky's case, I imagine that WWE would waive any non-compete clause, but in this case I don't see that happening. It would set a very bad precedent. Maybe shorten the timeframe, but not waive it.

Vince probably expects this to blow over in a few months after Brock's cooled off and why chance him immediately taking advantage of his WWE push? Goldberg's contract is a different animal since he already had Japan dates and worked that in from the start.
evilwaldo
Lap cheong








Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3314 days
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#176 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
    Originally posted by gps
    I still think this whole Lesnar thing is a gimmick by the WWE to make this match interesting.


Interesting to whom? The IWC? Nobody cares about the IWC.



Are you a professional halfwit or talented amateur?
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 10 hours
Last activity: 56 min.
#177 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.43
"The gist of the post was that Brock owed a debt first and foremost to the company"

The idea that Lesnar somehow has to justify his salary for the last two years is silly. He justified his paycheck by wrestling in pro wrestling matches over the time period. He got a lot of money because there was a bidding war over him. If you expect every wrestler, or even every headliner, to recoup their salary for the company, then precious few have actually done that. Nevermind that he was one of their best and hardest-working performers over the last year and a half -- hardly stealing his money.

Fulfilling the contract is not equal to indentured servitude. I do agree with most who've said he could've given them another month for storyline flexibility and to put somebody besides Goldberg over on the way out.




"The [TV] comparison is still valid"

No it's not. The insinuation is that Brock's only problem is with losing a match or some booking decision, when clearly it goes way beyond that and has to do with the lifestyle itself, clearly a very, very, very, very different lifestyle than that of a TV star.
JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

Since last post: 2199 days
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Y!:
#178 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.62
    Originally posted by JMShapiro
    I do agree with most who've said he could've given them another month for storyline flexibility and to put somebody besides Goldberg over on the way out.


True, although in his last few months, he helped bring Benoit back up to World Title contention (before he left for RAW, anyway) and halp make Eddie the biggest babyface in the company.

But it's not like they can't put someone else in that "versus Undertaker" slot. Granted, it may not be as quality a hoss, but it doesn't kill them short-term. Of course, we could just always see another inferno match next month...wouldn't that be neat?



Goddamn this is one wacky game show!
Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#179 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.35
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    True, although in his last few months, he helped bring Benoit back up to World Title contention (before he left for RAW, anyway) and halp make Eddie the biggest babyface in the company.


How in the hell did Brock help bring Benoit to World Title contention in the last few months? Benoit had one title match against Brock in December and then immediately went back to wrestling John Cena or the FBI for the last few weeks until the Royal Rumble. He was still a mid-carder until he he won the Rumble.

However, he probably did "halp" Eddie become the biggest babyface in the company, though I must confess I don't know what "halp" means...
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 10 hours
Last activity: 56 min.
#180 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.43
"How in the hell did Brock help bring Benoit to World Title contention in the last few months?"

Well, they started rehabbing Benoit in November when he made Lesnar tap, then got the visual tapout in December. By that point the decision had already been made for him to win the Rumble.
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