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The W - Current Events & Politics - Another Government Program that Doesn't Work(at least in Canada)
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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1186 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Canadians Pan Government-Backed Marijuana
Mon Sep 15, 9:19 PM ET


OTTAWA - Some of the first patients to smoke Canada's government-approved marijuana say it is "disgusting" and they want their money back.

Health Canada, the federal health department, started selling marijuana in July to bring relief to patients suffering from AIDS (news - web sites), cancer and other diseases. The move followed a court order that patients should not be forced to get their marijuana from drug dealers on the streets.

But some of the first to buy the government's marijuana say it is no good.

"It's totally unsuitable for human consumption," said Jim Wakeford, 58, an AIDS patient in Gibsons, British Columbia.

Wakeford and Barrie Dalley, a 52-year-old Toronto man who uses marijuana to combat the nausea associated with AIDS, are returning their 1-ounce bags, and Dalley is demanding his money back about $195 plus taxes. Wakeford is returning his unpaid bill for two bags with a written complaint.

The marijuana is being grown for Health Canada deep underground in a vacant mine section in Flin Flon, Manitoba, by Prairie Plant Systems on a contract worth about $7.5 million.

Ten patients have registered with Health Canada to buy marijuana directly from the government to alleviate their medical symptoms. Another 39 applications are pending.

No patients have complained directly to Health Canada so far, spokeswoman Krista Apse said, and the department will not accept returns or provide refunds.

Meanwhile, Vancouver inaugurated North America's first government-authorized drug-injection site Monday. The controversial government-funded project will give users injection kits and allow them to shoot up under nurse supervision.

Drug users sometimes use dirty needles and water from puddles to shoot up. Now, addicts wanting to use the new facility will be ushered into a brightly lit room lined on one side by open, mirrored booths where they can inject drugs.

After finishing, they will be taken to a "chill-out room," where they can receive counseling and peer referrals.





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PalpatineW
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
A chill-out room.... awesome. Imagine sending your tax dollars to the Canadian government so some individual can waste his life with heroin. Awesome.



Johnny Cash
1932-2003
BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3294 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.64
What a shock...a program run by the Canadian government that fails miserably. This is just another example of a case where the private sector should be allowed to do what the government does poorly.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3179 days
Last activity: 3179 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    A chill-out room.... awesome. Imagine sending your tax dollars to the Canadian government so some individual can waste his life with heroin. Awesome.


It's better then having dirty needles on the streets where people can get pricked by them by accident.
Mr. Heat Miser
Blutwurst








Since: 27.1.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.90
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    A chill-out room.... awesome. Imagine sending your tax dollars to the Canadian government so some individual can waste his life with heroin. Awesome.


The government's not providing the heroin - just the location to shoot, and it IS better then having this happen on the streets. Clean needles and clean facilities are going to save $$$ on health care (which everyone gets) in the long run. Harm reduction processes like this make sense when there is socialized health care, and, as fuelinjected noted, makes the neighborhood a little cleaner and safer.

In America, where the health care system is very different, it would be a different kettle of fish.

As far as the pot thing, of course the government can't grow stuff that's any good. And of course the government shouldn't be in the pot growing business. That's why it should just be legalized, so folks can grow their own. Which the Canadian feds are baby-stepping towards, or were before the US drug czar started interfering.



-MHM, winner of the 2000 Throwdown in Christmastown.
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 222 days
Last activity: 3 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
My guess is the government is distributing crappy marajuana just so these people won't want to do it anymore.

It's stupid, but so's the government.



My Calgary Flames are currently tied for first place overall with a record of 0-0-0-0. It's training camp, but it's a start, right?
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3294 days
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.64
Wanna save money on the health care system? How about switching to a two-tiered system and making the public end of it off limits to those who wilfully injure themselves. Then, put the money you saved there and the money currently going into shoot-up houses into the correctional system and actually attack the drug problem.

I'm sorry, but I have a big problem with a system where my tax dollars go to pay for places where druggies can shoot up safely because my only other alternative is for those same tax dollars to pay to heal them when they OD or use dirty needles. There are plenty of people in this world more deserving of a bit of help than drug addicts because they, after all, bring their problems on themselves.
Mr. Heat Miser
Blutwurst








Since: 27.1.02

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.90
Well, BVM, you could do that, but then you'd have a less fair system of health care (which I'm not convinced would actually be cheaper), a hell of a lot of money spent on prisons, and a War on Drugs, to boot, without actually stopping the drug use. Kind of the way things are in the US currently.

And where would the line be drawn? No health care for speeders injured in car accidents? No health care for those injured without seat belts or motorcycle helmets? No health care for someone legally intoxicated who fell down and broke a bone? No health care for sports injuries, because you know the risks? I would find it tough to know where to draw the line.

Getting folks into a building where there are counsellors is going to benefit society more than throwing them in jail to rot, or having them spread Hep C/AIDS to folks that would still qualify for health care coverage under your plan. I agree that there are plenty of people in this world more deserving of a bit of help than drug addicts - I think that this is actually a good solution for the rest of us, and the best thing to do is to ramp up prevention programs big time. Even if we do, though, there will still be drug users, and it doesn't help to imagine otherwise.



-MHM, winner of the 2000 Throwdown in Christmastown.
Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2783 days
Last activity: 2783 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
I am so happy Canada is moving towards a European view of drug use (if you ain't hurting anyone, the gubment isn't gonna stick it's nose in your business) and abuse (it's a public health issue, not a criminal issue).






They got a mule they call Sal, bulldozing up canal walls.
They're gonna tap that icecap too,
And when they do they're gonna make that green map blue.
And the weather is finally getting warm ...
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 222 days
Last activity: 3 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    Wanna save money on the health care system? How about switching to a two-tiered system and making the public end of it off limits to those who wilfully injure themselves. Then, put the money you saved there and the money currently going into shoot-up houses into the correctional system and actually attack the drug problem.

    I'm sorry, but I have a big problem with a system where my tax dollars go to pay for places where druggies can shoot up safely because my only other alternative is for those same tax dollars to pay to heal them when they OD or use dirty needles. There are plenty of people in this world more deserving of a bit of help than drug addicts because they, after all, bring their problems on themselves.


Alberta Premier Ralph Klein (the guy whose excellent management has taken Alberta from debt in 1989 to financial stability in 2003) tried to get a two-tiered system going, but basically the federal government (the Liberals) vetoed it, saying that the Conservative Party's idea was going against Canada's basic principles of health care. However, the idea got strong support provincially and some think Klein may try to get it implemented again.



My Calgary Flames are currently tied for first place overall with a record of 0-0-0-0. It's training camp, but it's a start, right?
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1186 days
Last activity: 983 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by Mr. Heat Miser
    No health care for those injured without seat belts or motorcycle helmets?

Good idea. I deplore the concept of paying for people who make bad decisions...



Leroy
Andouille








Since: 7.2.02
From: Huntington, NY

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.85
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    What a shock...a program run by the Canadian government that fails miserably. This is just another example of a case where the private sector should be allowed to do what the government does poorly.


When I was in college, there were a few people in the "private sector" who were "running" a similar program...




"It's hard to be a prophet and still make a profit."
- Da Bush Babees

"Finally, a candidate who can explain the current administration's position on civil liberties in the original German."
- Bill Maher on Arnold Schwarzenneger

"You know, I'm a follower of American politics."
- President George W. Bush, 8 Aug 2003
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3179 days
Last activity: 3179 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
    Originally posted by Leroy
      Originally posted by BigVitoMark
      What a shock...a program run by the Canadian government that fails miserably. This is just another example of a case where the private sector should be allowed to do what the government does poorly.


    When I was in college, there were a few people in the "private sector" who were "running" a similar program...



Your college too? Hey I know a bunch of kids from high school who have got YEARS of experience to lend to this operation. They're young and hungry and motiv... ok, young and hungry, constantly hungry.

(edited by fuelinjected on 16.9.03 2046)
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

Since last post: 3294 days
Last activity: 3204 days
ICQ:  
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.64
    Originally posted by Mr. Heat Miser
    And where would the line be drawn? No health care for speeders injured in car accidents? No health care for those injured without seat belts or motorcycle helmets? No health care for someone legally intoxicated who fell down and broke a bone?




I'm not saying no health care for those people. I'm saying no PUBLIC health care for them. I don't see how you can justify making an injured child or a sick elderly person wait in line behind the carless drunk who, by the way, got themself drunk in the first place by their own choice. The idea behind public health care is supposed to be that people can't control when they get sick or injured and shouldn't be left to suffer due to a lack of money. Sometimes, though, people can control it...and in those cases, should be responsible for the consequences of their actions.

Freeway: I agree, I think Klein will try and push it through again. The Liberals are so blind in their opposition to two-tiered health care that the Ontario party is actually pushing to close existing privately-owned MRI clinics. It's absurd. I think Canadians would eventually buy new health care principles when they see that it cuts their wait times and gets them into a doctor's care faster.


As far as the wiseguys on the reefer debate...I'm well aware there's a private sector already kicking around...why yes, my campus has it too...and I'll bet where you guys went to school the guy who sold the better product for the better price did a good business. The same as we wouldn't have have the medicine we do now if development had been left to the government instead of drug companies, all we need is a couple of contracts to private firms to produce and sell medicinal marijuana you solve the complaint issue real fast.
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The part that amazes me is that in a month, they didn't spend every available moment bringing her up to speed. The novelty, except to the faithful, has worn off and we are left with a Gov.
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