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The W - Random - Angel Season Finale
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Since: 1.3.02
From: Worcester, MA

Since last post: 392 days
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#1 Posted on
I guess I will start the Angel series finale thread.

After the first commercial break, I thought they were going to do "Hush" 2; it went at least a couple of minutes without any dialog. I thought my sound was screwed up.

I thought it was a good episode, but it didn't really wrap up the whole series, so I hope they give it one more season. I mean, what was up with Gunn and the panther? And we never saw Fred after the first half hour until she showed up at the end, what happened with her and the science guy?

The biggest question amongst the people I watched was how Angel moved Conner to another family. I thought that Angel made a deal to transplant him to a new family, and change everyone's memory. The counter argument was that Wolfram & Hart sent Angel back in time to put Conner up for adoption (or give him to a family), and then he came back to see how he was doing. I guess it doesn't really matter, as the end result was the same.

I liked the tie to Buffy though, could that artifact make a difference? I guess we'll find out in the next couple of weeks.

Thoughts?



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Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

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#2 Posted on
I think Wolfram and Hart pulled some kind of mind wipe. I can't see them futzing with time. If they could, why not go back and prevent the Beast from destroying W&H the first time? (Unless its the same skill they used to travel back in time and prevent Spike from siring Holden, whom they took and renamed and made the manager of their science dept.)

The one good thing to come out of all this is that everyone can stop bitching about how Connor sucks and needs to die. I wasn't expecting a resolution to the Connor situation, but given that it could be the last episode (although I doubt it), I can see why they'd want to do that. I was rather surprised when it looked like Angel slit Connor's throat at the sporting goods store (did Angel hit Conner with a basketball???), and I was more surprised when Fred said, "Who's Connor?" Still, I expect that Connor is going to find out what Angel did, interpret it to mean that Angel didn't love him, and be even more pissed off, and ultimately, Angel will face off and kill him. Or I could just be clinging to those doctored prophesies too much.

The scene where Wesley tried to save Lilah was cute. As was her neck wound (how come she didn't still have a big scar where the knife went through?)

The tie to Buffy was good, indeed. I like that they referenced the Watcher's council destruction. I wonder how many ex-watchers are left since all the *active* members are now dead. I wonder when that guy turned on the Council. Wesley drew him out rather cleverly.

What happened with Gunn in the White Room?

I'm thinking Angel needs to axe the big WH in the lobby if they are going to run the place.



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Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
X-E's co-Worst Poster of all time! Jkyle.com says:

Angel hit Conner with a bowling ball, the best Conner ass kicking since he Faith mopped him up, only slightly better than the bloodying Angel gave him when they fled Jasmine. If Conner got his ass kicked on a regular basis then why not keep him around?

I think Gunn was facing fear, insecurity, and all the other things that haunted him this season. He looked Death in the face and didn't blink. I also think this is like Buffy's mom wearing a red dress in the season 4 finale, an omen of death for him. But he'll go out fighting from the looks of it.

I honestly thought they were going to find an Angel Investigations sign outside at the end.



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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

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#4 Posted on
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    I'm thinking Angel needs to axe the big WH in the lobby if they are going to run the place.

Man, a giant "AI" would look so cool!

I'm thinking Connor's done. It was a convenient way to eliminate the character from continuity. It appeased both sides of the fence. The Connor-haters got to see him killed and the Connor-lovers got to see him live happily ever after. I don't know if Vincent Kartheiser has been signed for Season 5 or not, but I think we've seen the last of him.

I think we didn't see much of Fred because she didn't need much convincing. As soon as she saw the Reed Richards-level laboratory, she was in. Same goes for Lorne. (To me, Lorne had the two funniest moments of the season with the "Judas Iscariot" line from a few weeks ago and the limo scene last night.)

Here's my theory on Gunn: I don't know exactly what the panther meant, but Gunn being in the White Room was crucial to convincing him to take the deal. Of all the AI gang, he's the most grounded in reality. Like he said, he's the wrong guy to go to the White Room. But, W&H felt he belonged there. It immediately erased any inadequacy issues he may have had.

Wesley's hidden weaponry returned! The guy's gotta start buying shirts with bigger sleeves!

All in all, a fantastic episode! It got me really psyched up for the last two Buffy's. I've got my fnigers crossed that we hear good news from the WB on Monday.

(edited by SchippeWreck on 8.5.03 0747)

EddieBurkett
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Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

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#5 Posted on
I don't think Fred was convinced. At the end, she was surprised that Lorne and Gunn had signed up so willingly, and even that Wesley was considering it. She'll go because all the others are going (or at least because Angel is going).

It will be interesting to see how the group can attempt to do good without becoming what they were fighting. Unless they do wind up becoming what they've been fighting.

Between the possibilities for the gang running WH, Gunn's white room experiences, and Connor learning he's living a lie, there had better be a next season, cuz I'm hyped for it.



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Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

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#6 Posted on
There was some really good stuff in there indeed.

-I'm glad that Conner is out, at least for the time being. But I have a feeling that, like all amnesia storylines, there will be a kink in this system.

-I've always thought that if the gang were to start getting killed off, then Lorne would be the first to go, but I really hope that isn't the case. He really is hillarious, which is great for such a dark show. He does seem easily impressed, though (intimate details on Sigfried and Roy are enough to convince him to take over the entertainment division of Wolfram and Hart? They HAVE an entertainment division?!).

-Angel being impressed by the hidden TV reminded me why I like "quirky" Angel so much more than "serious" Angel.

-I'm not sure Fred is really gung-ho about this whole thing either. I don't think she completely bought the bluster of the science lab. But, I don't think that even if she did she would have taken the job. She's a follower not a leader, she needed to hear everybody else's opinions too. Probably the most common sense of any of the AI team.

-Angel and Conner's fight was pretty cool, and really funny, in an odd way.

-Wesley Bond earns some respect back from me that he lost last season. He's my favorite male character on the show.

-I can't stand Gunn. I sure as hell hope that if there is a next season that his scene makes sense. His little "am I nothing more than cannon fodder?" story hasn't done anything for me. Especially when the answer is, "No you're not."

-I'm not a big fan of "good Lilah". "Evil manipulative Lilah" was so much better.



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Since: 6.1.02
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#7 Posted on
I think Connor is done as well, but maybe that's just a lot of hope.

When Gunn first went into the white room my inital thought was that he was going to take the little girl's place in the white room. And I thought maybe the whole panther thing was the panther becoming a part of Gunn. In an earlier episode with the those four people that the Beast was killing off, wasn't one of them a tiger of some kind?

If any of the Buffy cast is added next season it will be interesting to see how they fit in.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Chandler, AZ

Since last post: 362 days
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#8 Posted on
Just read on AICN that Angel was renewed for next year, with new series regular James Marsters! It also said that Charisma Carpenter likely won't be back as a regular.
y4j1981
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Since: 1.4.03
From: Dale City, Virginia

Since last post: 1989 days
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#9 Posted on
For all who have missed some of the old episodes:

TNT has bought rerun rights to the first four seasons of the series and will begin airing it as early as Fall 2003. The show will likely run twice a day on the cable network.



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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54


    Still, I expect that Connor is going to find out what Angel did, interpret it to mean that Angel didn't love him, and be even more pissed off, and ultimately, Angel will face off and kill him. Or I could just be clinging to those doctored prophesies too much.


Well, Angel did *kill* Connor in a way, since he wiped out his entire memory and made him HappyCollegeKid. I also find it really ironic that after killing Jasmine because she took away everyone's free will, Angel does pretty much the same thing in wiping the gang's memories of Connor.

BTW, this spell opens up a monsterous can of worms. If the gang never remembered Connor, then...

* Did Darla never get pregnant?
* Is Darla still alive?
* What about Sahjahn and his prophecy?
* If he never came out, does this mean Holtz is still in suspended animation waiting to be released into the present?
* Was Cordelia never a higher being, and subsequently, how did she end up in a coma?
* Did the whole Beast/Angelus/EvilCordelia/Jasmine storyline even take place? How could it, without Connor?
* Hell, how did the gang end up at Wolfram & Hart being offered the keys to the castle anyway?

I'm glad the show is coming back next season, but the writers will have some major league explaining to do. And Spike coming in doesn't exactly fill me with glee.




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Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 8 days
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#11 Posted on
Its not a question of whether or not all those events happened, its a question of how AI will remember those events having occurred. They may very well remember as much as Darla getting pregnant and Angel having a son who was abducted by Holtz to another dimension, but after that, things HAVE to get cloudy for them. It might be the kind of thing where they remember that Cordy was the Beast master and mothered Jasmine before dropping into a coma, but they'll just draw blanks when they try to think of who was the father and what happened to him. Like I've said with Connor realizing that his life is a sham, if Gunn, Wes, and Fred sit down and try to recall this season, they'll realize that there are certain things NONE of them can remember straight, and unless Angel had Lilah whip up some good answers to their questions, those three will realize someone messed with their heads, and I doubt they'll be happy about it.

Is it possible that in wiping Connor, Angel did a worldwide wipe of Jasmine too, or would that be even beyond WH's powers? If no one remembers they felt world peace, then that should quell the rioting that's been occurring.

Angel didn't get rid of the gang's free will as much as he sacrificed certain memories to provide Connor with a happy life. Its not quite the same as the blatant mind control Jasmine was enacting, but it is related. But at least no one gets eaten in this scenario.



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Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

Since last post: 472 days
Last activity: 190 days
#12 Posted on
The prophecy said Angel would kill Connor.

He did. Connor no longer exists.

Although, looking at Buffy this week, it appears he got over it.




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Since: 28.6.02

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#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by y4j1981
    For all who have missed some of the old episodes:

    TNT has bought rerun rights to the first four seasons of the series and will begin airing it as early as Fall 2003. The show will likely run twice a day on the cable network.



Not only that; for all of you that have a WB channel on cable (like us with "The WB14") only, there will also be Buffy/Angel reruns.





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Since: 31.8.02
From: VanCan

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#14 Posted on
The Gunn scene confused me as well, but then I remembered a similar scene on Buffy a few seasons ago, something about being led by a large cat. I figure the panther was leading Gunn towards relieving his fears that have been building this season since the incident with that professer he killed, by forcing Gunn to overcome his more literal fear, in this case of cats (he seemed very afraid once he saw the panther.)

I don't think what happened to Connor was some kind of time distortion, because Angel would probably realize what erasing Connor would do. I figure it's a mass memory wipe of some kind, like a reversal of what those monks did with Dawn.



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Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

Since last post: 472 days
Last activity: 190 days
#15 Posted on
I think Gunn is the new Emmisary (sic) of TPTB.




As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?

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