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The W - Baseball - Andy Pettitte Retires
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It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.37
The end of the "Core 4" era.

New York Yankees' Andy Pettitte Retires, says not 'easy decision'


    NEW YORK -- Andy Pettitte announced his retirement at Yankee Stadium, saying he no longer has the "hunger" to pitch another season.

    With wife Laura sitting at his side, Pettitte said Friday he had conflicting feelings about leaving the game. He said "it was an easy decision, but it wasn't an easy decision." As recently as two weeks ago, he thought he would return for another season.

    The 38-year-old left-hander said at a news conference that his body was in shape to pitch but "my heart's not where it needs to be."

    "It just didn't feel right for me anymore," he said. "I didn't have the hunger, the drive I felt like I needed."


Out of the core four of Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, and Posada, Pettitte's the first one to retire. It's somewhat bittersweet, as I loved to root against his Yankees, but Pettitte was always under-the-radar dominant, especially in the playoffs.




"Going up the stairs and going down the stairs and going up the stairs and going down the stairs! And going up the sideways stairs!"
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.65
NOOOO!! The best post-game pitcher in all of baseball is gone. I would say something about how he should go to the HOF, but it looks like the ESPN Gods and old men baseball voters won't allow it. Every day, the WWE gets better looking then the baseball HOF due to baseball's inflexibility.
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Every day, the WWE gets better looking then the baseball HOF due to baseball's inflexibility.


Insert Pete Rose joke [HERE].
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
Wilbon, on PTI Yesterday was emphatic that Andy is a sure fire HOF guy. Of the late 90s/early 2000s guys, him, Bernie Williams and Paul O'Neil all being retired saddens me. I love the Yankees, but the team has no real personality anymore! Jeter, Posada, and Rivera can't will the rest of the team to have the "it factor" if Joe Torre's teams.

It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.37
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Wilbon, on PTI Yesterday was emphatic that Andy is a sure fire HOF guy.


David Aldridge (on TK's radio show) had a good counter to this. If you don't vote in McGuire, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc. because of their alleged steroid use, it'd be a double standard to vote in Pettitte, an admitted HGH user. I don't think he's as sure-fire a HOF'er as we might think, even though his career numbers (particularly his career postseason numbers) say otherwise.

(edited by It's False on 4.2.11 1506)



"Going up the stairs and going down the stairs and going up the stairs and going down the stairs! And going up the sideways stairs!"
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
102 games over. 500, the most post season wins in history, and five rings.

Buster Olney was on saying the same thing as Its False.

I know he's borderline stats wise but the Yankees wouldn't have won 4 of the 5 titles they won if he wasn't pitching on those teams.
graves9
Landjager








Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY

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#7 Posted on
Pettite had a heck of a (tainted) career but he's not a hall of famer. He was not nearly as good as Mussina, who is far more deserving. Pettite was only the best pitcher on the team a few times and really never one of the top pitchers in Baseball.



http://defendingthecore.blogspot.com/ http://morehardball.blogspot.com/
graves9
Landjager








Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 3 days
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#8 Posted on
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    102 games over. 500, the most post season wins in history, and five rings.

    Buster Olney was on saying the same thing as Its False.

    I know he's borderline stats wise but the Yankees wouldn't have won 4 of the 5 titles they won if he wasn't pitching on those teams.

Wonderful put him in monument park. He doesn't deserve Hall entry.



http://defendingthecore.blogspot.com/ http://morehardball.blogspot.com/
BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.95
No Jack Morris, then no Andy Pettite.

Oh yeah also the steroids thing.




Michigan against the SEC: 20-6-1 (7-4 in bowl games)

StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
I am all for Jack Morris getting in. Its funny when borderline guys are up, people will say "but he never won a ring" but when other borderline guys have rings, then its solely a statistics argument against them. Andy was great. But borderline HIF.
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.59
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Its funny when borderline guys are up, people will say "but he never won a ring" but when other borderline guys have rings, then its solely a statistics argument against them.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it is not the same people making both arguments.



It is the policy of the documentary crew to remain true observers and not interfere with its subjects.
"Well. Shit." -hansen9j
Go Pack Go! (10-6, NFC champions)
Let's Go Riders! (getting pretty tired of being the bridesmaid)
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I am all for Jack Morris getting in. Its funny when borderline guys are up, people will say "but he never won a ring" but when other borderline guys have rings, then its solely a statistics argument against them. Andy was great. But borderline HIF.

Any one who ever uses the argument "so and so never won a title" when discussing whether a guy in a team sport should be in the HOF of that sport is a moron. You should not listen to these people.

Certainly when a player is on the borderline then that player's performance in the postseason should be considered, though usually the guys we think of as awesome in the postseason turn out to not have been the all-destroying titans we remember them as (like Jack Morris). Don't forget, Andy Petitte also has more postseason losses than all but 2 other pitchers. Unless someone is uniquely dominant in postseason play (say perhaps if Orlando Hernandez had put up a borderline HOF career) it really doesn't serve much purpose to think about the postseason record one way or the other.

That said, and really there is no reason to link them other than that someone in this thread has already done so, Petitte has a much stronger HOF case than Morris.



2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
Oh, I didn't want anybody to take my Yankee love as an excuse that I think he's in the HOF or not. As much as I love him and what he did for NY I know his overall numbers are suspect. And the taint of the hgh thing will probably keep him out. (But that's a whole other story)
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.59
    Originally posted by spf
    Unless someone is uniquely dominant in postseason play (say perhaps if Orlando Hernandez had put up a borderline HOF career) it really doesn't serve much purpose to think about the postseason record one way or the other.
Schilling will be that test case. In 19 career games, he's had three games that can actively be described as "not good" (and one of them was the result of an exploded ankle), and has otherwise pitched some incredible gems. People that start that many games should not have a postseason ERA of 2.23. Meanwhile, his regular season numbers put him at the borderline.



It is the policy of the documentary crew to remain true observers and not interfere with its subjects.
"Well. Shit." -hansen9j
Go Pack Go! (10-6, NFC champions)
Let's Go Riders! (getting pretty tired of being the bridesmaid)
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 96 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.69
    Originally posted by lotjx
    NOOOO!! The best post-game pitcher in all of baseball is gone.


I assume you mean postseason, because being the best post-game pitcher in baseball is something of a dubious distinction.

(edited by ekedolphin on 5.2.11 1407)


"I'm pleased that the imminent destruction of all organic life has improved your career opportunities."
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BOSsportsfan34
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Since: 2.1.03
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Oh, I didn't want anybody to take my Yankee love as an excuse that I think he's in the HOF or not. As much as I love him and what he did for NY I know his overall numbers are suspect. And the taint of the hgh thing will probably keep him out. (But that's a whole other story)


I say let all the steroid/HGH users in. You want to say it's "cheating" then fine. Gaylord Perry admitted to using the spitball as his main pitch, and he's in the HOF. Before steroids amphetamines ("greenies") were used by players in the 70's-80's, and Mike Schmidt admitted to using them at times. I don't hear anyone calling to remove them from the HOF. Also, IIRC, Canseco said there is already someone in the HOF that he knew used steroids. If more names from the list of 103 get leaked out or is ever made public then it would'nt suprise me if someone in the hall is on it.

(edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 5.2.11 1639)


"John McCain ran for president in 2000. Why couldn't we have elected him then? When he was sane." - Lewis Black
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
    Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
      Oh, I didn't want anybody to take my Yankee love as an excuse that I think he's in the HOF or not. As much as I love him and what he did for NY I know his overall numbers are suspect. And the taint of the hgh thing will probably keep him out. (But that's a whole other story)


    I say let all the steroid/HGH users in. You want to say it's "cheating" then fine. Gaylord Perry admitted to using the spitball as his main pitch, and he's in the HOF. Before steroids amphetamines ("greenies") were used by players in the 70's-80's, and Mike Schmidt admitted to using them at times. I don't hear anyone calling to remove them from the HOF. Also, IIRC, Canseco said there is already someone in the HOF that he knew used steroids. If more names from the list of 103 get leaked out or is ever made public then it would'nt suprise me if someone in the hall is on it.

    (edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 5.2.11 1639)


The two people mentioned most as the steroid user in the hall are Henderson and Ryan.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.54
Not a HOFer. Typical "let's overrate this guy because he pitched in New York" reaction. Very good pitcher, no question, but certainly not an all-time elite.

Addendum: A Joe Posanski post pointing out that Pettitte's closest comparable is.....Chuck Finley.

http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/02/pettitte-junction.html

    Originally posted by It's False
    Out of the core four of Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, and Posada, Pettitte's the first one to retire.


Core four, my ass. I had a bit laugh at the SI article about the four of them last summer. "They've been teammates for 16 years!...uh, except Pettitte, who spent three years in Houston. They've never been tied to steroids!...uh, except Pettitte, who used HGH." Andy Pettitte is the Zeppo Marx of the Yankee core four.

(edited by Big Bad on 6.2.11 1441)


"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

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#19 Posted on
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Not a HOFer. ...Very good pitcher, no question, but certainly not an all-time elite.
Agreed. Just like how I've always felt about Bert Blyleven and Jack Morris.

I'm in the same camp as StaggerLee about AP. The HGH thing should taint any chance he'd have, but I'm unsure there was much of a chance to begin with. Being a Yanks guy, I'd put him in the Munson-Mattingly-O'Neill-Bernie group...loved them, will miss them, but looking at the game as a whole, not an "all time great". Of the other three, IMO, Jeter and Rivera should go on the first ballot.
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Problem is, as is pointed out every year, the MVP award is not for the Player of the Year (which Pujols would have won in the NL, and probably Mauer or Jeter in the AL). It's for MVP. And without Morneau, the Twins would not have hit a hot streak.
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