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The W - Basketball - ...and Williams is in
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Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 199 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#1 Posted on
Well, Carolina got themselves a new coach. Nice to see somebody made the players actually dress up for this news conference.

The latest conspiracy theory is that Roy told Dean he was unhappy at Kansas, and so Phil Ford stirred shit up with the players, giving Baddour a semi-legitimate reason to oust Doherty. And now we have Roy. And I'm sure Phil Ford will be back on the coaching staff.

-Jag

And I thought the good ol' boy system that ruled our football program was ridiculous.



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spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#2 Posted on
You know what pisses me off about this? The coach can just up and go anytime he pleases. But the Kansas players are stuck there, or have to lose a year of eligibility in order to go elsewhere. The NCAA needs a rule whereby when a coach leaves a university to take another job all of his recruited players become free agents.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 days
#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by spf2119
    You know what pisses me off about this? The coach can just up and go anytime he pleases. But the Kansas players are stuck there, or have to lose a year of eligibility in order to go elsewhere. The NCAA needs a rule whereby when a coach leaves a university to take another job all of his recruited players become free agents.


You assume that the NCAA cares about the athletes. It doesn't. The NCAA's mission is to act as a binding cartel for universities to limit the costs of participation. If any of you enjoyed your econ classes, I strongly suggest a book that I read for a Managerial Economics class in grad school, a link to it can be found here : http://www.sportseconomics.com/resources/book_store.html#SportEco

Now that I finished my NCAA rant....

I guess the ties to the alma mater and loyalty to Dean were too much for Roy to pass up. Kansas is a great program as is North Carolina. As an outsider, I wouldn't really consider one to be preferential over the other, and I know that fans of both schools could convincingly argue that theirs is the better job. Which of UNC's super (soon to be) sophomores will return? If all of them return, look for Roy to have a great debut season in Chapel Hill.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 45 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#4 Posted on

    Originally posted by spf2119
    You know what pisses me off about this? The coach can just up and go anytime he pleases. But the Kansas players are stuck there, or have to lose a year of eligibility in order to go elsewhere. The NCAA needs a rule whereby when a coach leaves a university to take another job all of his recruited players become free agents.


Well, if the players can just up and leave too, isn't that like screwing the university twice? Now not only lose the coach, but possibly the whole team as well! (And would leave open the opportunity that a school would not only be recruiting a coach, but possibly loading their team with new players, I would imagine that if you took the best from Kansas and North Carolina and put them on one team, that would be pretty damn loaded) As far as I'm concerned, the players have a contract with the university to play for four years. It's not with the coach. The fact is they can leave, with a one year penalty. I don't think that is too much to ask to protect the university. Afterall, it is the university (and its fans) that pays the players the scholarship money, not the coach. (and shouldn't players be making decisions on the school they want to attend? Isn't this suppose to be about getting an education? OK, I know that is the great lie, but it's the one the NCAA and many others push. And leaving just because the coach does doesn't quite jive with that.)

NBA coaches can leave anytime they choose as well, and all players under contract are stuck with the current team. This is no different. I just think about it as Kansas players' learning a life lesson.


Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 199 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#5 Posted on
And that lesson is what?

-Jag



From the mouth of my uncle Jim, the Republican banker:
"I regret voting for Bush."
"We need to vote him out of office."

I am in Shock. I am in Awe.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
The lesson is that life sucks and then you die.

Doesn't Williams have a CONTRACT? Could Kansas be dicks about this and say that Williams can't go elsewhere until his contract is up?



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Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

Since last post: 68 days
Last activity: 2 hours
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#7 Posted on

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    And that lesson is what?

    -Jag



Shit happens?



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Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#8 Posted on
I hate it when th eplayers whine about how the coach "deserted" them. As if any of them would stay if the NBA came calling. When a better opportunity presents itself you take it. Any player would, so why shoud a coach be diffeent?






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Rudoublesedoublel
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 days
#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by ges7184


    Afterall, it is the university (and its fans) that pays the players the scholarship money, not the coach.



How much does it REALLY cost a university to give someone a scholarship, with the exception of the lost revenue from tuition? They don't have to add any new faculty, they don't have to build a new class room, they don't have to cook any more food (assuming that they always cook "too much" food to begin with). It's doubtful that the book store has to purchase any additional books (although they do lose revenue from the books). Simply put, no school actually has to "write a check" to cover a scholarship.

On the other hand, the players from the revenue generating sports manage to generate a large amount of revenue and share in no part of those spoils. While it is true that the athletes receive a "thing of value" in the form of an education, I can argue that all other scholarship recipients receive the same thing, but don't do anything extra to add money to the school's treasury. I've never heard anyone say "John Doe is a Presidential Scholar at Kansas, I'm going to pay $20 to watch him take a test."
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 45 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#10 Posted on
Er......well as much as I would like to shoot holes into your post, I can't really fault the logic, so I guess score yourself a point!

Actually, I am of the mind that players should have the option of taking the free education or being paid an equivalent amount of the worth of the scholarship (and books and everything) and getting out of having to attend class. But, of course, looking at it your way, the scholarship actually is not a cost (especially when you considered that many of these players would actually qualify for college if not for the different standards for athletes, thus no real revenue loss either). And paying the players would be.

As far as the last argument goes, it's not like full-ride academic scholarships are plentiful. There are plenty of partial scholarships for academics, but when you talking about the full-ride, everything paid-for scholarships, you are generally talking about athletes. And while Kansas can boast of people paying $20 or even more to see their basketball team, most cannot make that claim. In fact, most athletic programs operate in the red. Yet the players still get full-ride scholarships. Take UTM where I go to school. Using the Hogan mindset, UTM = Kidman.
But the whole 'why small schools pretend that they are big draw major schools' issue is for another time.

But I agree that at the major schools, there is something wrong where the programs reap the awards of the work of the players. (Speaking of which, I also don't have a problem with players signing sponsorship deals at the college level. Hey, if they are popular enough to get people to pay them, why not? I mean, nobody cares if a musician in college can earn money in his craft. Or an engineer as a summer intern? So why can't players earn money in the off-season doing anything they can.)

But back to the point, I guess my main viewpoint was a selfish one as a fan. I hate free-agency in the pros. I hate that the teams change so much. It gets to the point that you wonder what are you cheering for, the uniforms? The owner? Because you certainly can't get too attached to the players. Now on a logical viewpoint, I can't really argue against free-agency (the best I can do is say that players really work for the league, not the franchise. But it's kind of weak.) But as a fan I hate it. At least in college, you can more or less count on the same team returning for four years, there is some continuity (this is more the case in football than basketball). And I would hate for college to become a world of free agents, as a fan.

(edited by ges7184 on 16.4.03 2147)
Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 2 days
#11 Posted on
UTM! I'm assuming that is Tennessee-Martin. We're practically neighbors. Back in the day there was a bar called Cheers in Martin that would admit you at 18. I have hazy (but good) memories of that place.

I agree that the dynamics are different in the smaller conferences. I went to Murray State and I agree that at the smaller schools that the revenue isn't really present, although a school like that reaps a big bonus when a b-ball team makes the NCAA tourney.

The biggest thing about the athletic departments is that they: 1) Allow the revenue generating sports to subsidize the non-revenue sports (at least at the biggest universities); 2) Have some spooky accounting that makes losses appear; and 3) Generate support from alumni and other donors that may appear in other funds (at the university) but are actually earned by the athletic department.

While I love free agency in professional sports (it allows the workers to go where they are most valued), I'm torn on free agency in college athletics. On one hand, it would force a school and coach to be accountable to the student athletes, while on the other hand the priveleged few would hurt the system.

I do think that if a coach leaves a program that players should be allowed to transfer without losing a year of eligibility. I don't think many players would do this, however. They would see opportunity in staying.
JWstorm
Kolbasz








Since: 23.10.02
From: Tarheel State

Since last post: 3052 days
Last activity: 2330 days
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#12 Posted on
GOtta love ROy and his press conference. Im looking forward to having him as coach at UNC and i can only hope that he brings all the positives that have made the Kansas sads so sorry to lose him.



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