Originally posted by The Atomic TomatoI can't believe a discussion actually took place where someone was comparing Bert Blyleven to Jack Morris.
Bert has had 1 (one) 20 win season in his 22 year career when he went 20-17. He pitched 15 seasons with losses in the double digits, and 6 seasons with losing records.
Jack Morris, on the other hand, has only had 3 seasons under .500, is a 3 time 20 game winner and was a World Series MVP.
Blyleven's only saving grace was his high career strikeout total and his longevity. Morris is clearly the better pitcher, both in their primes and overall careers.
You really, really have to remember that for the most part Bert played on really bad teams (Indians, cough). Blyleven also had something close to 400 complete games. He may not be Morris, but he should be in the Hall.
Originally posted by StaggerLeeJayJay, I see your point, but people who were defending Blylevin kept pointing out his ERA was lower, along with a few other stats, while Morris, was consistant in his entire career, except the 89 (I think it was 89) season. In the case you mentioned, that may be accurate, but to consistantly win, and be able to do it while giving up more ERs, the guy is still pitching great.
Because I love exercises in futility, let's try this again. JayJay pointed it out using two different pitchers. How about this, choose among the two pitchers:
They look even, until you notice that Pitcher A was 17-16, while Pitcher B was 21-6. Therefore, Pitcher B must be better, right?
Not exactly, because A is 1982 Jack Morris on a team that finished 83-79 and B is 1992 Jack Morris on a team that finished 96-66. I don't know how much clearer it can be--pitchers on good teams win more games than pitchers on mediocre teams. And, there is a significant luck component to wins. Jack Morris was no more a winner in 1982 than he was in 1992. And, he was the same Jack Morris in both years.
Furthermore, Blyleven didn't post better 'ERA along with a few other stats' than Morris. His ERA was considerably lower, his control was considerably better, he had far more strikeouts (5th on the career list) and is 9th on the career shutout list.
Again, Morris was a great pitcher. I cannot emphasize this enough. But, if Blyleven isn't a HOF pitcher, then Morris is definitely not a HOF pitcher.
They have Melhuse and Mark Johnson (who if you read Moneyball, Beane seems to have this homoerotic thing going for him). Johnson I think needs just a chance to play regularly and he will be a pretty good player.