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The W - Baseball - And now Bonds' testimony has been released
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Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.04
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/03/BALCO.TMP


    Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned.


I just hope this doesn't help kill the case against Balcon (again).



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thecubsfan
Scrapple
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
related:

ESPNMag's article will have Conte saying he watched Marion Jones inject HGH before and after the 2000 Olympics. I'm presuming the IOC will be by in the morning to pick up some medals.

Conte's goal seems to save himself and destroy the crediblity of drug testing, and I think at least one is going to work.

This is all breaking down quite fast.



thecubsfan.com - CMLLBlog
BWT
Boerewors








Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.76
Bond's excuse of "I didn't know what it was" is really lame I think. Does he honestly expect us to believe that a pro athlete puts anything in them without knowing what it is? I really don't know what to think about Barry. On one hand he has had maybe the best three year stretch that any player has ever had and on the other I can't help but think how much of that success has to be attributed to steroids. Baseball has to do something about this but I don't expect them to do anything at all really.
Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

Since last post: 2416 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.33
Especially if what Sheffield said about Bonds a few weeks ago was true. I have a hard time believing that he doesn't know exactly what he's putting in (on?) his body.

(edited by Roy. on 3.12.04 1139)
dunkndollaz
Banger
Back to Back Survivor








Since: 3.1.02
From: Northern NJ

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.36
So does this mean that Barry will just take/use anything that is given to him ? His records mean and will mean nothing to me. Hank Aaron will still be my all time HR leader



Folk singers are always liberal pansies, but not me.....I sing for my fellow conservatives...care to hear "Shoot the Hippie out of the Redwood Tree" ?
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.74
Not taht I want to be the one who defends Barry, necessarily, but I can see a scenario wher he trusted Greg Anderson as his trainer and Anderson denied he was giving Barry steroids, so Bonds took Anderson at his word. Based on Giambi's testimony that seems far-fetched, but I guess I can see it.

When Rick Neuheisel was the head coach at Washington, it was alleged that when the NCAA sent out rules updates he would refuse to read them so he could deliberately remain ignorant of the rules he was breaking. I can see Barry taking the same approach to the steroids: if I don't KNOW they're steroids how can I get in trouble for taking them?



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BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.01
Barry's excuse is super weak IMO. I feel all his records should be wiped out. Now of course, he was a good player, an MVP even, presumably before he took steroids. But I don't think we should give cheaters the benefit of the doubt. Same for Giambi, Sheffield, et al. They all should be thrown out of the game for a long, long, long time. Possibly for life. I hate to bring up Pete Rose, but if he gets thrown out for life on account of _possibly _ fixing games (i.e. cheating) then these guys should get the same penalty for _definately_ cheating.

And as a side note, I do kind of empathize with some of these players. Not Bonds or Giambi, but some of the lowere level talent that feels they will struggle to remain in the league if they don't take any roids. It's a HR culture, and if they wanna make millions, maybe they feel they need to take illegal substances. Of course they don't have to, but it's a tough decision to make, what with the Union not agreeing to do a damned thing to stop the rampant steroid abuse with the disgraceful policy that was negotiated for the current CBA. This is angering me now....
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.64
I don't see how we can be expected to take Bonds at his word when his story keeps changing. First he never took steroids. Then, he did take steroids, but he didn't know what they were. What's next? If he wanted the benefit of the doubt he should have come clean right away and pleaded his case. I have a very hard time believing a guy's sob story when he only fesses up once he's already caught.



Screw Ricky
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.83
"Same for Giambi, Sheffield, et al. They all should be thrown out of the game for a long, long, long time."

I think you're talking about tossing out a lot more than just a dozen or so black eyes here. I'm betting it's an issue that's far, far more pervasive than just a few disgraceful famous Sluggers.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.77
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    "Same for Giambi, Sheffield, et al. They all should be thrown out of the game for a long, long, long time."

    I think you're talking about tossing out a lot more than just a dozen or so black eyes here. I'm betting it's an issue that's far, far more pervasive than just a few disgraceful famous Sluggers.


Not only that but MLB has a very strong union and while I'm not fully clear on the policy, they have a rather thin steriod policy, don't they? So, at best, they can only act based on the policy. They still don't have tests showing Bonds was on steroids, so all they really have is Bonds admitting that he had some creams rubbed on him.

I also don't really see MLB doing anything all that drastic because they haven't shown any indication in the past that they really care. The Home Run chases have re-energized that game and you can't tell me that Jason Giambi and Barry Bonds are steroid users and Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire were clean. Look at them. Sosa doesn't even fit into his uniform.

I also think the general baseball fan doesn't really care about the athlete's health so I see MLB implementing some superficial policy to appease the media attack dogs, handing out a few suspensions, and trying to let it all fizzle out. Kinda like the Sammy Sosa corked bat thing.



"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.52
So, Bonds and Sheffield claim they didn't know what they were applying to their bodies? In a related story, Dwight Gooden, Steve Howe and Strawberry are holding a news conference next week to announce they didn't know they were snorting cocaine, they just thought they were inhaling snow from South America and were did not know that snow meant cocaine.
Seeing Bonds humiliated publicly and seeing potential evidence of him committing perjury is nice. However, am I the only one just a slight bit disturbed that multiple grand jury testimonies are being leaked? Whoever is leaking this needs to be placed in a cell.



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drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

"...others say my mom sucked 3,000 dicks." (Nag)


As far as people who buy the whole "I didn't know what was in it" excuse, I've just gotta wonder how many people would have this exchange with their personal trainer.

"Here, use this."
"What's in it?"
"Who cares, just use it."
"...okie."

There's no freakin' way that these players DIDN'T know. Although rsn's got a point: WHY do we have access to these testimonies?

Although somewhere, this case has gotta have a Jim Miller moment. You know... not an exact quote, but it was something like "look at me. I'M the one on steroids?"



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Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
    Originally posted by drjayphd
    Although rsn's got a point: WHY do we have access to these testimonies?


My cynical guess? Bonds, Giambi, et al can't be charged in a court of law (immunity if they testified truthfully) so they can be tried in the court of public opinion. Somebody close to the investigation decided help out some reporters, as well as sway public opinion.

Did Marion Jones testify in front of the grand jury? She could be charged with something if she lied (and if they have proof that she lied).
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni








Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.92
In a similar story, the Sun is expected to rise tomorrow.

MVP! MVP! MVP!



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JustinShapiro
Scrapple
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.83
Well it's not the Most Valuable Player Not On Steroids Award!
BWT
Boerewors








Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.76
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1938586

Leave it to Peter Gammons baseball god to sum up everything I am thinking and write a fantastic column.

"The dirty little secret is a major scandal. It is not going away. Curt Schilling has long said that we can't love the game as much as the players because we don't play, and now is the time that no one can do as much to restore the game they love as the players themselves."

Amen.
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.23
I am surprised that I heard what I have thought anywhere.

Taking steroids or prohormones isn't as simple as injecting a liquid, swallowing some pills or spraying it on your skin. You don't JUST take the steroids. You would be taking a cocktail of other drugs as well, such as a liver protecter like Milk Thistle and some DHT blockers.

You don't just take gear nonstop, you need to cycle your use. When you are on the juice, you will most likely be taking nolvadex which is used to treat breast cancer in women and prevents gynecomastia(growth of breasts on men).

And immediately after your cycle you will start taking Clomid(clomiphene citrate) which is a fertility aid. When you take roids, your boys stop producing testosterone and they shrink up. The Clomid revives them. If you don't do proper Post Cycle Therapy, you will most likely lose what you gained and will produce less testosterone naturally.


Basically here is my point. Bonds wasn't just rubbing a cream into his skin. I guarantee you he was taking these other drugs as well(Giambi admitted to using Clomid). Also, when you are taking an orally applied prohormone or steroid you need to be very careful about your physical contact with others. Some stuff is released for up to twelve hours after you use it. And believe me it stays on your skin. I learned never to rub my eyes with the wrong hand because of the incredible stinging from the alcohol.

He would have to be concious about being in contact with his wife and kids. I never heard of arthritis cream giving your wife hair and a deeper voice.

When you know a little about these substances it just seems so obvious that he is lying through his teeth. You really need to be concious of what you are doing when on these supplements. How did he think he can get away with this, but I guess when most people get caught in a big lie, they deny it until their deaths(save Pete Rose).


In closing, baseball may be tainted, but at least I can say with certainty that my favorite athlete, Griffey never needed roids to hit home runs. But he really could use some to get healed up faster :(
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.87
Regardless of whether or not she used steroids, I think Marion Jones is quite doable.

Hey, Shotgun, your roid info is interesting but I wonder about wrestlers. You mention having to be careful when in physcial contact with others, is that a risk for wrestlers on the juice?

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 11.12.04 1225)


Hot Virgins-The World's Most Steadily Shrinking Commodity
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2596 days
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25
Only if they are using a transdermal spray. Most people either take pills(which can be tough on the liver) or most likely inject it.
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Quite the game tonight for the Sox and Jays. Here's hoping the Olde Towne Team will be able to ride this momentum, ake another one or two from Toronto and do well against the Tigers heading into the break.
- Gugs, Now THAT'S baseball! (2003)
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