The W
Views: 101514566
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
21.12.14 1546
The W - Current Events & Politics - American Protestor killed by Israelis
This thread has 54 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: 1 2 3 Next(2203 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (43 total)
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 258 days
Last activity: 59 days
#1 Posted on
Story clipped from right here. (cnn.com)

American protester killed by bulldozer
Rachel Corrie, 23, of Olympia, Washington, was killed in Rafah, Gaza, on Sunday when she was run over by an Israeli bulldozer. She had been protesting its use in the destruction of Palestinian houses .

Corrie had been working since January with the Palestinian-led International Solidarity Movement protesting Israeli actions in the occupied territories, said Huwaida Arraf, co-founder of the group.

Arraf said the bulldozer driver ignored Corrie's pleas to stop, saying after he ran over her, he "then reversed and ran over her again."

An Israeli military source called Corrie's death "a very regrettable incident," but also said, "this is a group of protesters who are acting very irresponsibly. They are putting everyone in danger ... by intentionally placing themselves in a combat zone."

Arraf said the activists only use non-violent means. "We definitely don't believe that this was an accident," she said.

U.S. State Department spokesman Lou Fintor urged the IDF to conduct "an immediate and full investigation into the circumstances of this death."

The United States also repeated its call for the IDF to take all possible measures to avoid harm to civilians, Fintor said.

-Jag



If they studied their paper money for clues as to what their country was all about, they found, among a lot of other baroque trash, a picture of a truncated pyramid with a radiant eye on top of it, like this:



Not even the President of the United States knew what that was all about. It was as though the country were saying to its citizens, "In nonsense is strength."

-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. Breakfast of Champions
Promote this thread!
Enojado Viento
Potato korv








Since: 12.3.02
From: Your Grocer's Freezer, NC

Since last post: 780 days
Last activity: 52 days
#2 Posted on
I hate to sound insensitive, but the soldier was right--she acted irresponsibly and it cost her.

I'm all for protesting, but it should be peaceful protests. This kinda thing, plus the planned obstruction of US airbases by protestors (resulting in the "deadly force" edict issued over the weekend) is over the line.

To protest for peace, you have to RROTEST PEACEFULLY. If it results in bloodshed due to your own recklessness, you failed.

(edited by Enojado Viento on 17.3.03 2010)



-LS

"Yeah, well, the movie lied."
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 258 days
Last activity: 59 days
#3 Posted on
A couple things:

1) How is standing in front of a bulldozer violent in any way?

2) If she was standing in the middle of an actual combat zone, with people firing guns and she got shot, that would be different. Instead she was standing in front of a bulldozer that was about to bulldoze a house. Have you ever operated a bulldozer? The only way I can think of to 'accidentaly' run over someone is if the driver is completely incompetent, and ignorant of what's going on around them.

-Jag



If they studied their paper money for clues as to what their country was all about, they found, among a lot of other baroque trash, a picture of a truncated pyramid with a radiant eye on top of it, like this:



Not even the President of the United States knew what that was all about. It was as though the country were saying to its citizens, "In nonsense is strength."

-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. Breakfast of Champions
Enojado Viento
Potato korv








Since: 12.3.02
From: Your Grocer's Freezer, NC

Since last post: 780 days
Last activity: 52 days
#4 Posted on
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    A couple things:

    1) How is standing in front of a bulldozer violent in any way?

    2) If she was standing in the middle of an actual combat zone, with people firing guns and she got shot, that would be different. Instead she was standing in front of a bulldozer that was about to bulldoze a house. Have you ever operated a bulldozer? The only way I can think of to 'accidentaly' run over someone is if the driver is completely incompetent, and ignorant of what's going on around them.

    -Jag



1) I'm not saying it was "violent" I'm saying it was "careless." It was only a couple weeks ago they bulldozed a house with someone still inside. Anyone informed enough to protest settlements being bulldozed would know not to fuck with the bulldozer.

2) I doubt the driver was either incompetent or uncomprehending. I think he probably just didn't care.

Was it right for them to bulldoze her? No, but it wasn't right of her to stand in front of the bulldozer knowing full well he wasn't going to stop. If she didn't, she wasn't making an informed protest.

If I know people guarding an installation have shoot to kill orders I don't provoke them. You can protest without trying to force a confrontation.



(edited by Enojado Viento on 17.3.03 2114)



-LS

"Yeah, well, the movie lied."
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#5 Posted on
If you choose to use yourself as a human shield, there's always the chance someone might just put that to the test. Maybe I'm insensitive, but I really don't feel like anything was wrong about this. These folks know they're putting themselves on the line and in harms way, or at least they should know this, and in this case it came back to her.



The Most Bitter Place On The Net.

The current artist tickling my fancy: Brenda Weiler


Immortality
Michrome
Head cheese








Since: 2.1.03

Since last post: 3892 days
Last activity: 2958 days
#6 Posted on
Maybe this will stop people from being morons in the future. I see nothing wrong with what happened.
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
Don't be ridiculous. Of course there is something wrong with what happened. You get a couple soldiers to drag her out of there and proceed. This is what always happens. Annoying? Yes. But the difference between the Israelis and, say, every other country in the area, is that Israel is a civilized, democratic country that does things like go that extra mile to try and not kill civilians that bother them. This is why idealistic Europeans and Americans go (at least up until now) to Israel to do this stuff instead of, say, the Sudan. Remember when Iraq took it's OWN human shields and tried to put them in front of oil refineries?

That driver should be court marshaled and punished. Of course, when that happens it won't be front page news. Nor is abuses by the military front page news in any country except Israel. With any other country, a soldier screwed up.



It seems that I am - in no particular order - Zack Morris, John Adams, a Siren, Janeane Garofalo, Cheer Bear, Aphrodite, a Chihuahua, Data, Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel, Amy-Wynn Pastor, Hydrogen, Bjork, Spider-Man, Boston, and a Chaotic Good Elvin Bard-Mage.
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 3616 days
Last activity: 3616 days
#8 Posted on
If you can't see anything wrong with this then I feel for you, because you voted Republican. When someone loses their life when it could have easily been avoided then there is something wrong and dehumanizing about it. MoeGates is right, the police should have gotten her out of the way and then proceeded with their destruction. It would have taken ten minutes and no one would have gotten hurt. Isn't that the job of the police and military is to make sure no civilivians get killed? If not then you live in a dictatorship.

The problem with Israel is that they don't care who gets killed anymore as long as it isn't them. Since the US gave them all these fun toys to play with since their creation, Israel will always be able to kill at will.

You know why, because they have the US by the balls. The Jewish League is huge here and combined that with the anti-Muslium sentiment you have a receipe for disaster. The US will always say they want a Palestine state, but yet never force Israel into it. Isreal knows if any administration comes after them they have to deal with the large Jewish vote in key states which apperantly doesn't matter anymore since those people don't can't read ballots anyway. Israel is one of the key factors this war is going to happen, if they would just not elect zealots and war crimenals perhaps peace could be given a chance.

A Fan- Good God, what the fucking happened to humanity around here?

Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 258 days
Last activity: 59 days
#9 Posted on
So in America, you could get tried for Manslaughter over this (Second Degree murder at the outside), and yet you feel that nothing wrong happened here?

-Jag



If they studied their paper money for clues as to what their country was all about, they found, among a lot of other baroque trash, a picture of a truncated pyramid with a radiant eye on top of it, like this:



Not even the President of the United States knew what that was all about. It was as though the country were saying to its citizens, "In nonsense is strength."

-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. Breakfast of Champions
Michrome
Head cheese








Since: 2.1.03

Since last post: 3892 days
Last activity: 2958 days
#10 Posted on
"If you can't see anything wrong with this then I feel for you, because you voted Republican."

Wow, you're the absolute definition of the idiotic leftist that thinks everyone else is evil but members of your party. You also fit this bill nicely, because you clearly follow the path of thinking that states that any country with running water, electricity, and an army is the automatic bad guy. To imply that Jewish influence is the reason for this war is ridiculous, Jews vote for Democrats over Republicans by a ratio of 8 or 9 to 1. There are far fewer Jews with influential spots in this administration than there were during the Clinton era. Plus, how can you blame Israel for not wanting a Palestinian state? They're already surrounded by countries that want to destroy them, they don't want to add another one to the equation. As long as the Palestinian charter calls for the liquification of Israel, Sharon will rightly never want a Palestinian state.

Plus, I'm yet to hear a version of what happened from the Israeli side. Let's hear both sides before condemning them. One report claimed that the Israeli Bulldozer ran over her multiple times, one report says she was buried in the rubble...which contradicts the first one. Is it remotely possible to you that we don't have all the facts here?

(edited by Michrome on 17.3.03 2252)
Enojado Viento
Potato korv








Since: 12.3.02
From: Your Grocer's Freezer, NC

Since last post: 780 days
Last activity: 52 days
#11 Posted on
Look it's unfortunate that it happened but if it happened in America it would be one thing. But it didn't. It happened in an occupied territory (certainly under martial law) in a foreign country. Our legal rights or what we would do doesn't apply.

Loss of life is bad but considering THEY KILLED SOMEONE IN MUCH THE SAME WAY A WEEK OR TWO AGO, it doesn't come as a surprise. She should have udnerstood the danger--you buy the ticket, you take the ride.

It's NOT Ok she died, no, but to tar eveyone with the brush that "you're inhumane if you don't see anything wrong with it" is grossly oversimplifying it. If I'm inhumane, you're naive if you don't think protestors die. If anything they should be ready to willingly if they beleive their cause is just.

And I DIDN'T vote Republican, thankyouverymuch.




-LS

"Yeah, well, the movie lied."
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#12 Posted on
No, I don't see anything wrong with this, because this was taking place as part of a military action by Israel, which this woman was attempting to stop by her actions. If this were some random bulldozer driver who ran over some random woman, it would be a different story, so I don't feel the analogy to what would happen in a US court of law is valid. Otherwise every soldier who kills anyone in the coming Iraq conflict should be charged with murder, which I doubt many people would want to see happening. However, this woman was attempting to stop them from taking an action which they believed would help them to not have so many of their people randomly slaughtered. In a purely militaristic view this woman was aiding the enemy by attempting to stop the Israeli military from carrying out their duty. One can argue with the tactics that Israel is using (and I have many times), but in this one instance I do not have a problem with this action in the circumstances it occured in. At some point one has to go down to the level your enemy is fighting at, and if that offends the sensibilities of people, that is a shame. And if the human shields are finding that their idealism is being met with a lack of civilized response, then they need to reexamine their choices of vacation spots. Yes the issue COULD have been dealt with in less destructive ways, but in a purely militaristic and utilitarian sense, what obligation did they have to do anything but what they did?

And personally I voted for Nader, because I believe that people are capable of rising above their base instincts. However, when confronted with a situation where you are being attacked on the most base and uncivilized manner, at some point I feel you have to cease with niceties and attack as cruelly or more so.

(edited by spf2119 on 18.3.03 0117)


The Most Bitter Place On The Net.

The current artist tickling my fancy: Brenda Weiler


Immortality
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 3 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#13 Posted on
Would CNN have reported this story if the dead woman wasn't an American?

Would you have clicked on the headline if "American" hadn't been in it?

    Originally posted by A Fan
    If you can't see anything wrong with this then I feel for you, because you voted Republican.
Quick reminder: I have NO TOLERANCE for bullshit non-sequitur flames like this in this (or probably any) forum.



©CRZ™
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1328 days
Last activity: 1125 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
This is just another case of idealists with no concept of reality losing their life for a dumb decision. I'll admit, she did have chutzpah for standing her ground. But since she was a human shielf, she should have prepared herself for losing her life. The blame for her death should fall on no one but herself.



There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.
- Theodore Roosevelt, Ocotber 12, 1915
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 142 days
Last activity: 142 days
#15 Posted on
I wouldn't be quick to jump on the driver of the bulldozer since it is possible he didn't see her. These aren't the Caterpillar bulldozers Joe MIllionaire used to drive, these are armored bulldozers with very small windows. So it is possible he didn't see her.

But having said that I am not at all surprised that someone in the IDF killed an American protestor. Just look at the USS Liberty to see how much the IDF really cares about American lives over there.



'But if one is struck by me only a little, that is far different, the stroke is a sharp thing and suddenly lays him lifeless, and that man's wife goes with cheeks torn in lamentation, and his children are fatherless, while he, staining the soil with his red blood, rots away, and there are more birds than women swarming about him.' Diomedes, The Iliad of Homer

Maiden RULES!!!
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
The problem with Israel is that they don't care who gets killed anymore as long as it isn't them. Since the US gave them all these fun toys to play with since their creation, Israel will always be able to kill at will.

This is what I'm talking about. With any other country, it's the soldiers fault. With Israel, it's the country's fault. What a disgusting double standard. As for the "not killing who gets killed as long as it isn't them," you don't read on the front page the hundreds of times before this that Israel has managed to not kill civilians despite them intentionally being in the middle of a war zone. And the U.S. has been heavily arming Israel since the late-60s, not since their creation. I dont expect you to go to the region and actually visit the various countries and maybe even be put in that situation before you pass judgement. But I at least expect you to get your facts straight and maybe read up a little on the subject. Stuff that's not by Pat Buchanan and Noam Chomsky.

You know why, because they have the US by the balls. The Jewish League is huge here and combined that with the anti-Muslium sentiment you have a receipe for disaster. The US will always say they want a Palestine state, but yet never force Israel into it. Isreal knows if any administration comes after them they have to deal with the large Jewish vote in key states which apperantly doesn't matter anymore since those people don't can't read ballots anyway. Israel is one of the key factors this war is going to happen, if they would just not elect zealots and war crimenals perhaps peace could be given a chance.

Yes. It's all a big Jewish conspiracy. What the hell is the "Jewish League?" Michrome has a good post on the numbers, which you should crunch before you make knee-jerk claims about "large Jewish votes in Key States." Last time I checked, New York and New Jersey, the only states where Jews make up anything that could be considered a "large" portion of the electorate, weren't exactly swing states.

Israel tried not electing zealots and war criminals, and Arafat fucked them. Do you not remeber Barak? It wasn't exactly that long ago.



It seems that I am - in no particular order - Zack Morris, John Adams, a Siren, Janeane Garofalo, Cheer Bear, Aphrodite, a Chihuahua, Data, Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel, Amy-Wynn Pastor, Hydrogen, Bjork, Spider-Man, Boston, and a Chaotic Good Elvin Bard-Mage.
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 20 hours
#17 Posted on
The Jewish League? Is that like the Justice League?

Actually, the fact that she put HERSELF in front of a bulldozer and expected a driver to stop in his mission because SHE thought HER life was too precious for him to harm makes her a complete idiot. Brave for doing it, but an idiot for not realising the "worst case senario".

Does anybody feel perhaps since she was on the Palestinian side of this Isreali/Palestinian confrentation that perhaps she was anti semitic?
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 142 days
Last activity: 142 days
#18 Posted on

    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Does anybody feel perhaps since she was on the Palestinian side of this Isreali/Palestinian confrentation that perhaps she was anti semitic?




Not at all. The anti-Semitic card is played out way too often to try to discredit anyone who does not kiss Israel's ass. If someone is Pro-Palestinian, it doesn't mean they hate Jews or want to see Israel swept off the map by a Muslim Jihad. You don't even have to be "Pro-Palestinian" to be put off with how Israel treats them. Calling someone anti-Semitic because they don't like the way those people are treated would be like trying to discredit someone who supports the Catholics in N. Ireland as being a "Protestant hater".



'But if one is struck by me only a little, that is far different, the stroke is a sharp thing and suddenly lays him lifeless, and that man's wife goes with cheeks torn in lamentation, and his children are fatherless, while he, staining the soil with his red blood, rots away, and there are more birds than women swarming about him.' Diomedes, The Iliad of Homer

Maiden RULES!!!
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 538 days
Last activity: 538 days
#19 Posted on

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    . What the hell is the "Jewish League?"








    Isn't that the group Steve Carlton talked about ruling the world from a mountain in Switzerland a few years back? Maybe it was a good idea that 'Lefty' never talked to the press during his career.




    If it wasn't for war, you wouldn't know what peace was.
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 258 days
Last activity: 59 days
#20 Posted on
I just wanted to say that the reason I posted this headline instead of the 'Nine Palestinians dead' headline (which is also in the article if I recall) is because Israel has been waging it's war in the Occupied Territories for years. My mom was there 15 years ago, the last time Sharon was in power, and this was their policy: If you are a Palestinian who attacks Israel (from throwing rocks, to suicide bombing) we will either capture or kill you. Then we will go and bulldoze your family's home.

It didn't matter fifteen years ago if your family supported you throwing rocks or not, your house still got bulldozed. So the fact that Israeli military is destroying people's homes today wasn't really shocking to me. Just the fact that they killed a citizen from their biggest supporter, well that was kind of shocking.

And as for blaming Israel as a whole, and not blaming the soldiers? From my point of view, any sympathy that I had for Israel went out the window once they put Ariel Sharon back in power.

-Jag

The fact that I seem to be in agreement with Bizzle is scaring me....



If they studied their paper money for clues as to what their country was all about, they found, among a lot of other baroque trash, a picture of a truncated pyramid with a radiant eye on top of it, like this:



Not even the President of the United States knew what that was all about. It was as though the country were saying to its citizens, "In nonsense is strength."

-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. Breakfast of Champions
Pages: 1 2 3 Next
Pages: 1 2 3 NextThread ahead: Someone who _nearly didn't_ know when to stop
Next thread: Connie Chung's Carrer Casualty of Conflict
Previous thread: That Dixie Chick can suck my...
(2203 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Good. Maybe he'll run over O'Brien. There was never a chance in hell I was going to vote for that wench, but good grief... did you SEE her at that last debate? The look on her face went beyond rude and into the realm of incredibly offensive.
- PalpatineW, Massachusetts Governor's race (2002)
The W - Current Events & Politics - American Protestor killed by IsraelisRegister and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.149 seconds.