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The W - Baseball - Alomar to White Sox
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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1267 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
A surprise if you ask me:

ESPN.com news services

NEW YORK -- The New York Mets traded second baseman Roberto Alomar to the Chicago White Sox on Tuesday for three prospects.

New York received minor league pitchers Royce Ring and Edwin Amointe and infielder Andrew Salvo. The Mets will eat the $3.9 million left on his contract this year, the New York Daily News reports.

The deal ended Alomar's disappointing 1 years with New York and was the first trade by Mets interim general manager Jim Duquette.

Alomar, a bust in his one-plus seasons with New York, is hitting .262 with two homers and 22 RBI this season.

Alomar had been one of former Mets general manager Steve Phillips' high-profile acquisitions two winters ago, but the deal that included outfielder Matt Lawton, infielder Alex Escobar and left-hander Billy Traber being shipped to Cleveland never paid dividends for the Mets.

Alomar's brother, Sandy Jr., has played three-plus seasons for the White Sox.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.





""I haven't seen a starting nine like that since the '62 Mets"br>- Dennis Miller on the Democratic Presidential Candidates
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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#2 Posted on
Well, Alomar can't use the 'American League player in the National League' for an excuse if he fails. I am surprised the White Sox actually picked up a high salary player in mid-season though. Generally, they are the big market team that looks to dump players.



Where have you gone Gene Rayburn, a nation turns it lonely eyes to you.
Peter The Hegemon
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Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    I am surprised the White Sox actually picked up a high salary player in mid-season though. Generally, they are the big market team that looks to dump players.


Read the piece again. The Mets are eating his salary (mmmm...salary), so he won't cost them anything except the prospects.

Speaking of which, anyone know anything about these guys? Did my Mets at least get something for the future?
Sec19Row53
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

Since last post: 13 hours
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#4 Posted on
Ring was a 2002 #1 pick who is putting up good numbers in AA. Almonte (not the Little league kid) was well thought of in the article I read in the Chicago Tribune, but his numbers didn't look that hot (like a career minor leaguer).

Stats, courtesy of the Chicago Tribune:

Ring, a left-hander, has 19 saves and a 2.52 ERA at Double A Birmingham. Ring was selected to play in the All-Star Futures game July 13 at U.S. Cellular Field.

Edwin Almonte, a 26-year-old right-hander, is 2-6 with 14 saves and a 6.88 ERA at Triple-A Charlotte, while Salvo is hitting .235 at Class A Kannapolis.




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spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#5 Posted on
While this move doesn't make me as a Sox fan jump for joy (getting some bullpen help would do that), this can only be an improvement over the Jimenez/Harris platoon that was taking years off my life every time a grounder got hit to them.

If Aaron Rowand can stay hitting the way he has since he came back up for us, they could be a team to contend with, as the only major lineup gaps will be at 3B, C, and 1B/DH (wherever Thomas is not playing that day). And Mark Buerhle is remembering that he doesn't suck, and hopefully Esteban Loaiza will not remember he isn't an All-Star pitcher, so it could be good. I'm a little nervous about Colon, his arm has looked a bit weary.



and maybe I should open up my sensitive side/but really, the sensitive side sucks./I've been there./You can only imagine the kinds of sweaters they make you wear.

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Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 7 days
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#6 Posted on
to add to those stats, here are their career stas.

Edwin Almonte - 21 - 29 83 saves and 3.12 ERA. So those numbers for his career atleast look better than his current year with his 6.88 ERA

The .235, one homerun and six RBI that Salvo was hitting in Kannapolis was only part of his season. He started off in Winston Salem batting .185

Royce Ring - 3 - 4 24 saves and 2.83 ERA. I've seen him play here in Birmingham and he looks like a good prospect. But I'd hardly say I would trade him for Roberto Alomar.

Wasn't Roberto traded TO the Mets for a minor leaguer (a much bigger prospect though)? Poor guy can only get minor leaguers in exchange for him.



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TheCow
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

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#7 Posted on
I think Matt Lawton was involved in that deal in some way, too. It's buried on ESPN somewhere, I'm just too lazy to look it up.

Look, there's no way that Alomar will play the way he did in New York for the White Sox. He hated it there, just put in his hours and went home with a paycheck. There was no real motivation for him (honestly, a guy who was probably the best 2B in baseball when he was traded with 2 HR, 22 RBI so far? Deterioration doesn't happen that fast). He should return closer to his original form now that he's back in the AL, although it may be a couple of weeks before he does that.

As for minor league stats, don't put too much faith in them. Eric Byrnes wasn't a producer there, but I'd say he's fit in with the A's all right. Same with Hart (so far).







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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
Here's a query: when Alomar goes Hall of Fame (which he probably still will), which cap will be use? Padres, Blue Jays, Orioles, Indians, Mets or (depending on how he does, of course) White Sox? At this point it's gotta be Toronto.



Over 1550 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day!






Oliva: You are the weakest link! Goodbye!

Stewie: Ahahaha. Oh God, that's funny. That's really funny. You write your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh. 'You are the weakest link. Goodbye!' You know I've never heard anyone make that joke before. You're the first. I've never heard anyone reference that outside program before. Because that's what she says on the show, right? Hmmm? 'You are the weakest link. Goodbye!' And ye...ye..yet you've taken it and....and used it out of context to insult me in this everyday situation. What a clever, smart girl you must be. To come up with a joke like that all by yourself. Mmmmm...that's so fresh too. Any Titanic jokes you want to throw at me as long as we're hitting these phenomena at the height of their popularity. Mmmm? Cuz i'm here God you're so funny!


Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Here's a query: when Alomar goes Hall of Fame (which he probably still will), which cap will be use? Padres, Blue Jays, Orioles, Indians, Mets or (depending on how he does, of course) White Sox? At this point it's gotta be Toronto.


He did spit on Hirschbeck while wearing an O's cap. That's gotta count for something.



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"Tinker to Evers to Chance."
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
Making a Giant hit into a double-
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
"Tinker to Evers to Chance."

by Franklin Pierce Adams
drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
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#10 Posted on
In other news, ESPN sez that the White Sox also picked up Carl Everett for three minor leaguers. Deaaamn.



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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 331 days
Last activity: 325 days
#11 Posted on


    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Here's a query: when Alomar goes Hall of Fame (which he probably still will)


Uh, using what criteria? Is he in the top 50 in any lifetime category?



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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 14 min.
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
I'd say he's certainly hall of fame. He's probably one of, if not the, best defensive second baseman of all time.



Over 1550 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day!






Oliva: You are the weakest link! Goodbye!

Stewie: Ahahaha. Oh God, that's funny. That's really funny. You write your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh. 'You are the weakest link. Goodbye!' You know I've never heard anyone make that joke before. You're the first. I've never heard anyone reference that outside program before. Because that's what she says on the show, right? Hmmm? 'You are the weakest link. Goodbye!' And ye...ye..yet you've taken it and....and used it out of context to insult me in this everyday situation. What a clever, smart girl you must be. To come up with a joke like that all by yourself. Mmmmm...that's so fresh too. Any Titanic jokes you want to throw at me as long as we're hitting these phenomena at the height of their popularity. Mmmm? Cuz i'm here God you're so funny!


TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 2447 days
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#13 Posted on
What's funny is two years ago, we wouldn't have been arguing whether or not Alomar was a HoFer. It was predetermined - he was the guy to put the Mets over the top.

Amazing what a year and a half does for a guy's legacy. He needs another solid couple of years to become Hall-worthy again, at least in most people's eyes. As for mine... maybe just one more good year.







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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1267 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Alomar got on my shit list when he decided to phone in the entire 1998 season on his way out the door in Baltimore....ashhole.



""I haven't seen a starting nine like that since the '62 Mets"br>- Dennis Miller on the Democratic Presidential Candidates
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by drjayphd
    In other news, ESPN sez that the White Sox also picked up Carl Everett for three minor leaguers. Deaaamn.

Holy crap. Well there goes that DH hole I was fretting about a couple of posts ago. Kenny Williams must really be smelling blood in the water after the last 2 weeks or so. Smart moves, as this Central is ripe for the taking, and the team the Sox can field this weekend is a lot stronger than the one they fielded last weekend.

Of course I am right now trying to convince myself that Carl Everett is not totally and irrevocably insane, because self-delusion is a beautiful thing.



and maybe I should open up my sensitive side/but really, the sensitive side sucks./I've been there./You can only imagine the kinds of sweaters they make you wear.

blogforamerica.com
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 47 days
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#16 Posted on
    Originally posted by spf2119
    Of course I am right now trying to convince myself that Carl Everett is not totally and irrevocably insane, because self-delusion is a beautiful thing.


Not only is he COMPLETELY insane (and not just insane, but "dinosaurs neverexisted and we never landed on the moon" insane) but he hit .215 in June. It's like the White Sox are taking the Portland Trail Blazers'-chemistry-be-damned approach.


    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    Uh, using what criteria? Is he in the top 50 in any lifetime category?


Also, here are some lifetime stats for Alomar:

Batting Anverage: .302
Hits: 2615
HR: 203
RBI: 1093
SB: 468
Runs: 1448
Postseason stats: 58 games, .313, 4 HR, 33 RBI, 19 SB
World Series stats: 12 games, .347, 0 HR, 6 RBI, 6 SB
5 top 6 MVP finishes
5 top 7 batting average finishes
10 Gold Gloves
1992 ALCS MVP
1998 All-Star MVP
88th in career at bats
69th in career runs
73rd in career hits
87th in career total bases
58th in career doubles
44th in career stolen bases

Bill James has a scale for Hall of Fame stats on www.baseball-reference.com that gives a score of 50 to the average Hall of Famer. Roberto Alomar's score on that scale is 53.9. He also has a stat called "Hall of Fame Monitor" on how likely (but not necessarily deserving a player will be to make the HoF, with 100 being likely and 130 being considered a cinch. Alomar's score on that scale is 193. So I'd say Roberto Alomar should be thinking about which cap will be on his plaque.

(edited by JayJayDean on 2.7.03 0638)

(edited by JayJayDean on 2.7.03 0639)

Washington Huskies, 2003 Pac-10 football champs. Coming soon.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 477 days
Last activity: 477 days
#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by spf2119

      Originally posted by drjayphd
      In other news, ESPN sez that the White Sox also picked up Carl Everett for three minor leaguers. Deaaamn.

    Holy crap. Well there goes that DH hole I was fretting about a couple of posts ago. Kenny Williams must really be smelling blood in the water after the last 2 weeks or so. Smart moves, as this Central is ripe for the taking, and the team the Sox can field this weekend is a lot stronger than the one they fielded last weekend.

    Of course I am right now trying to convince myself that Carl Everett is not totally and irrevocably insane, because self-delusion is a beautiful thing.







Captain Carl has had a history of being mentally irregular when he plays on a team in a large market and when he is not playing in Texas. Fortunately, the White Sox fit both criterias, so let the summer fun begin. First fight: Captain Carl vs. Frank Thomas.



Where have you gone Gene Rayburn, a nation turns it lonely eyes to you.
Stefonics
Bockwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

Since last post: 1 day
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
If Carl managed not to kill Rocker when both were in Texas, I have to say that maybe his mental health is getting better. I'm a huge fan of Carl Everett, mostly because of the fact that he is bat shit crazy. I hope he does well in Chicago, but I have to be a little weary at the same time because I think most of his rejuvination was due to his respect for Showalter. The Rangers said that they didn't want to trade Carl, and now he's out the door. Does that motivate him, or send him on a killing spree starting with Big Hurt?



"Behind that twinkle in your eye, I can see the bitch in you."
- 50
Corajudo
Frankfurter








Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

Since last post: 104 days
Last activity: 3 days
#19 Posted on
As for minor league stats, don't put too much faith in them. Eric Byrnes wasn't a producer there, but I'd say he's fit in with the A's all right. Same with Hart (so far).

So, what should we use to project a player's performance if we don't put much faith in the minor league stats? If you look at Byrnes' minor league stats from 1999-2001, they were strong. His minor league numbers were not impressive in 2002-3, but I think that is due to the small sample size because he has been in the majors for the majority of the past two seasons. As far as Hart goes, let's see what his stats look like at the end of the year.

Let's see some better evidence before we completely discount minor league stats. I don't see how you can argue that doing poorly in a league with lesser competition and talent is irrelevant in predicting future performance. Maybe this is why I am getting such a kick out of reading Moneyball, especially the scouts' reaction to using statistics and not relying on if the player looks, runs and throws like a 'big leaguer' (whatever that is).
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 14 min.
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
My favourite Carl Everett moment: the SI interview where he (as a firm believer in Genesis) claimed that dinosaurs never existed.

"What about the bones?"
"Fake."
"Archeological evidence?"
"Fake."

Just classic.



Over 1600 posts and still never a Wiener of the Day!






Oliva: You are the weakest link! Goodbye!

Stewie: Ahahaha. Oh God, that's funny. That's really funny. You write your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh. 'You are the weakest link. Goodbye!' You know I've never heard anyone make that joke before. You're the first. I've never heard anyone reference that outside program before. Because that's what she says on the show, right? Hmmm? 'You are the weakest link. Goodbye!' And ye...ye..yet you've taken it and....and used it out of context to insult me in this everyday situation. What a clever, smart girl you must be. To come up with a joke like that all by yourself. Mmmmm...that's so fresh too. Any Titanic jokes you want to throw at me as long as we're hitting these phenomena at the height of their popularity. Mmmm? Cuz i'm here God you're so funny!


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