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The W - Pro Wrestling - Allow me to crush everyone's hopes right now...
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PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

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#1 Posted on
REALITY CHECK!

No matter how much you want it to happen...Rob Van Dam is NOT beating Triple H for the World Title at Unforgiven.

The situation with the former Undisputed Title is bad enough, with the belt having gone from Jericho to HHH to Hogan to Taker to Rock to Lesnar. Five changes in one friggin' calendar year and we're only three-quarters of the way through. If they want to make a potential unification match(preferably at Mania) have ANY significance whatsoever, it'll need to have two STRONG champions...and whether you like it or not, in my opinion, HHH shouldn't lose that belt until Survivor Series AT THE EARLIEST.

The belt has near-zero significance as it is, having just been handed to somebody. Build it up over time as something WORTH A DAMN before you start passing it around the same way the other belt's been passed around this year.

Don't say I didn't warn you if you buy Unforgiven hoping for an RVD win and then run crying to your computer after it doesn't happen.

-Patrick
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WhoBettahThanDeion
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02

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#2 Posted on
Hey Yo...

I didn't really want RVD to win anyways. Just look good. Me, personally, I hope Triple H keeps the damn thing for three months and jobs it out to Booker T or RVD. Not now, but LATER. I don't mind Triple H as champion, I think he's in a good place right now. I don't see unification until Wrestlemania or afterwords, however. And I hope they DO wait a bit to reunite, if they plan to do so. I don't mind there being two world titles, I just hope they can continue to find ways to keep things interesting and eventually settle with their respective rosters.

In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing Vince come onto RAW tomorrow to tell him that open trading is OVER. And then of course give him a verbal licking for what happened to his daughter at the hands of three minutes. I think the rosters are in a good place at the moment and personally I'd like to see the likes of D'Lo, Crash, Rico, Chuck and Billy on the bigger shows.



Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

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#3 Posted on
I'm sure there are a ton of people on the 'net who will order Unforgiven, watch the match, and if RVD doesn't beat HHH 100%, completely, totally cleanly with zero weapons and zero interference, with the five-star frog splash, (AND walk away from the ring without getting a post-match sledgehammering), they'll shrug, say "ah, politics", and it'll be business as usual as far as they're concerned.

-Patrick

(edited by PowerPB13 on 15.9.02 2217)

(edited by PowerPB13 on 15.9.02 2238)
chazerizer
Italian








Since: 11.7.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#4 Posted on

    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    I'm sure there are a ton of people on the 'net who will order Unforgiven, watch the match, and if RVD doesn't beat HHH 100%, completely, totally cleanly with zero weapons and zero interference, with the five-star frog splash, they'll shrug, say "ah, politics", and it'll be business as usual as far as they're concerned.

    -Patrick

    (edited by PowerPB13 on 15.9.02 2217)



That is the biggest problem. The belt REALLY needs to stay in one place for a while (and I don't think 3 months even really cuts it), but if it stays on HHH, a lot of people will bitch and moan. And if it doesn't, those same people will bitch and moan that the title has no signifigance.

So the way I see it, they're kinda screwed on this one.



Marty doesn't need surgery. This is a great day. I almost feel like I can say, I don't care that the Steelers lost

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It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#5 Posted on

    Originally posted by chazerizer

      Originally posted by PowerPB13
      I'm sure there are a ton of people on the 'net who will order Unforgiven, watch the match, and if RVD doesn't beat HHH 100%, completely, totally cleanly with zero weapons and zero interference, with the five-star frog splash, they'll shrug, say "ah, politics", and it'll be business as usual as far as they're concerned.

      -Patrick

      (edited by PowerPB13 on 15.9.02 2217)



    That is the biggest problem. The belt REALLY needs to stay in one place for a while (and I don't think 3 months even really cuts it), but if it stays on HHH, a lot of people will bitch and moan. And if it doesn't, those same people will bitch and moan that the title has no signifigance.

    So the way I see it, they're kinda screwed on this one.



And this is why they never should have handed a belt to Triple H to begin with.




"That's right! You suckas better FIND somewhere to run! 'cause it's me - Booker T - not only am I the Scorpion King, but I'm the five-time WCW Champion - and I got a sword, too! Now can U dig THAT - SUCKAAAAAS"
J. Kyle
Boudin blanc








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

Since last post: 29 days
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Y!:
#6 Posted on
Jkyle.com says:


    Originally posted by It's False

      Originally posted by chazerizer

        Originally posted by PowerPB13
        I'm sure there are a ton of people on the 'net who will order Unforgiven, watch the match, and if RVD doesn't beat HHH 100%, completely, totally cleanly with zero weapons and zero interference, with the five-star frog splash, they'll shrug, say "ah, politics", and it'll be business as usual as far as they're concerned.

        -Patrick

        (edited by PowerPB13 on 15.9.02 2217)



      That is the biggest problem. The belt REALLY needs to stay in one place for a while (and I don't think 3 months even really cuts it), but if it stays on HHH, a lot of people will bitch and moan. And if it doesn't, those same people will bitch and moan that the title has no signifigance.

      So the way I see it, they're kinda screwed on this one.



    And this is why they never should have handed a belt to Triple H to begin with.



But... but... HE'S A PROVEN DRAW*!





*According to the RatDiva




IC Contender! Now can you dig THAT?


"When I have children I'll do as much to encourage them to read as possible.
You know, like hit them if they don't." Douglas Adams

"Parents.WWE.com posted a warning about Smackdown’s show and the issue of “same sex” relationships. The country can handle the President of the United States getting his pecker sucked from a whore half his age but 2 grown men pretending to get married is wrong. Right on." Flea

spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#7 Posted on
Ummm...did anyone on the planet ever actually say that they thought RVD would be going over HHH? The way I see it there are 2 types of people:
A- Those who would like to see HHH put over RVD (or anyone really) but know by now it will never happen and have thus ceased hoping for such a thing. These people generally expect HHH to hold the belt until he's ready to unify it by taking Lesnar's half of the title as well.
B- HHH fanboys who love to go on the net and talk about HHH is good for business and never holds anyone down and deserves to win every single time he goes out because of all his effort he has put in.

Neither of these groups will be at all surprised by the inevitable result of Unforgiven. I plan on watching the Angle/Benoit match and then watching Vick tear apart the Bengals that night, because the RVD/HHH match holds no interest to me at this point.

One other thing, since the point of this thread seems to be talking about the unrealistic expectations of net fans and the need for them to be more realistic, can I just say there is no more useless concept cared about only by true smarks than "title valuation." Like any of these marks who supposedly only care about HHH and UT are going to turn to each other and say "gee, that Raw title can't be worth too much, as it's changed hands twice in 2 months. I don't want to watch this anymore." And really even if you wish to argue that last point, if RVD were to win this title at Unforgiven and hold it until Royal Rumble or Wrestlemania, would that somehow be dramatically less helpful than having HHH hold the belt the same length of time?

(edited by spf2119 on 16.9.02 0049)


God Loves Da Bears, Hates Jay Feely:
Chicago 14, Atlanta 13
Bears go to 2-0 (next vs. New Orleans)
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3507 days
Last activity: 1927 days
#8 Posted on
    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    I'm sure there are a ton of people on the 'net who will order Unforgiven, watch the match, and if RVD doesn't beat HHH 100%, completely, totally cleanly with zero weapons and zero interference, with the five-star frog splash, they'll shrug, say "ah, politics", and it'll be business as usual as far as they're concerned


Umm isn't that how faces usually win, the sure as hell how Triple H won the majority of his matches in his awful face run this year, hell what I'm I talking about that's how he won his matches when he was a heel.

For anyone getting disapointed over a Triple H win. Where have you been *I'm* never surprised in a Triple H victory. I'll be surprised if RVD wins the title on the PPV. And I'd be shocked if he does win and DOESN'T lose the next night in a return match.

The smart money is on Triple H even if his opponent is a better wrestler and a more over character.

(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 16.9.02 0150)


WWE new slogan "WWE: circling the drain"
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 days
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#9 Posted on
<< And this is why they never should have handed a belt to Triple H to begin with. >>

As far as how they brought back the World Title belt, what's done is done...now it's just a matter of making that belt mean something.

Triple H is the top heel on Raw, so he's a perfectly logical choice to hold the title. (And he's still over with the casual fans whether the 'netters care to believe it or not...he got a big mixed reaction at the house show I attended on Friday, and the anti-St. Louis promo he cut before his match STILL didn't turn EVERYBODY against him.)

-Patrick
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
I didn't think Jericho would be the first Undisputed, but now disputed, champ.

I didn't think The Big Show would take the gold when he subbed for the injured Austin in the 3-way.

I didn't think Mankind would go over HHH & Austin in a 3-way for the strap.

I didn't think Rocky would take the belt over Mankind back in 98.

Sometimes the unexpected happens...



That's just my 2.403 Yen.
Jerry "The King" Lawler rhymes with ass.
R-D-Z
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#11 Posted on
Ok...ofcourse this is just kayfabe talk, so I try to avoid bringing in any politics, glass ceilings and all that.

Raw: Triple H is the top heel. The mofo that didn't earn the title. Who takes on Spike but avoids from Bubba. Who says he doesn't care who he faces but gets worried when it turns out RVD.

He will have to job a bit to RVD but eventually end up keeping the title. That way RVD is the face facing the uphill battle and people will cheer for him more than ever.

Smackdown: Undisputed Smackdown title has gone from wrestler to wrestler because there were so many that were 'equal' and could beat eachother at any given day. Now Brock has it. The Next Big Thing. The man that cannot be beaten. The man that will do what men like Hogan, Rock, Taker, HHH couldn't do. Keep the title. Destroy the opposition.

- Now I am sure WWE didn't plan this all those months ago but they should freaking use that with Brock. The fact that he CAN hold on to the title. (This ofcourse assumes that he does..)





The only person who is capable of carrying a broom to a five star outing is none other than....
Torri Welles
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 116 days
Last activity: 116 days
#12 Posted on
I hope eventually that when they do the 'Reunification' that Brock wins (hopefully over HHH... it'd just let the whole thing come full circle) and just throws the "World Title" in the trash can. He's the Undisputed Champion, and he doesn't need another goddamn belt to prove it. That would just be awesome.

-Jaguar



"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

"Who do you love?"

-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
Mild Mannered Madman
Toulouse








Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

Since last post: 387 days
Last activity: 105 days
#13 Posted on
The best bet to do right now is to have Trips go over RVD cleanly, to show that at this point, Trips is better. But RVD should still remain in the chase, and join up with Michaels as a mentor to continue the feud.





We're all mad here... I'm mad... You're mad...
Fantomas
Polska kielbasa








Since: 23.2.02
From: New York

Since last post: 4311 days
Last activity: 2907 days
#14 Posted on
I agree with Mild Mannered 100%. I think it'd be best for RVD to chase the title for a long time, always coming close, but not QUITE winning it. Then when he finally does, * boom * huge pop and he's a superstar!

Can they write this angle? And not include lucy the dog?
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#15 Posted on
That is a great idea, get Shawn involved down the line.
It would make RVD more of a person too other than that guy who says Whatever..

And who knows..maybe they have something like that planned?
If there is one thing *I* think of the recent months is that 99.9% happens for a reason.
When Brock signed with SD! (before being champ) they knew he would eventually become SD only, that Taker would defect and put him over (assumingly he WILL do that, won't he?) and that HHH would be the Raw champ with RVD and Bubba getting in his face. And Shawn down but not dead..
HLA was gross and lame but it built the character Eric B. is..the wedding angle was weird but it made for something interesting.
Admit it, if WWE is doing a big angle right now, it isn't on the fly booking but something that will result in something down the line. So let us pray that they know exactly where they are going with both Raw and Smackdown and it will work out that way (no injuries, direction changes)...
IMO IF everything pans out, next year's Wrestlemania will be one hot show..



The only person who is capable of carrying a broom to a five star outing is none other than....
Torri Welles
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

Since last post: 2327 days
Last activity: 2327 days
#16 Posted on
Allow me to disagree with everyone.

RVD will win the title because he is the best wrestler.

Normally I'd give him a snowballs chance in hell, but consider this. The PPV will have 2 main event title matches with heels defending against faces. They won't keep a heel champion on each brand. And a PPV without ANY major title change would absolutly suck. So either RVD or Taker will win the belt. Brock jobbing to Taker in his first defense is inconceiveble. So RVD beating Triple H must occur. But, if RVD doesn't get the belt in the penultimate match, look for Taker to get the main belt in the last match.
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 1 hour
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#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    I hope eventually that when they do the 'Reunification' that Brock wins (hopefully over HHH... it'd just let the whole thing come full circle) and just throws the "World Title" in the trash can. He's the Undisputed Champion, and he doesn't need another goddamn belt to prove it. That would just be awesome.

    -Jaguar



Oh, now come on, you know that then EVERYBODY would start bitching that Vince was pissing on the grave of WCW by God, because he was throwing a title with such history and such status in the trash.



HLA! Hunter Loves Ass!
The Amazing Salami
Sujuk








Since: 23.5.02
From: Oklahoma

Since last post: 3705 days
Last activity: 3704 days
#18 Posted on
They have to keep the belt on HHH so Michaels match with him will be huge when he comes back.



"I'm in collision with every stone I ever threw." - David Gray
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 days
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#19 Posted on
The bottom line is this: Wrestlemania should be Raw Champ vs. Smackdown Champ, and it SHOULD be face vs. heel, otherwise it won't have the heat that a match of its magnitude deserves. Brock should be Smackdown Champ at the time, and he shouldn't turn heel until he loses the belt and the streak, and then dumps Heyman. Which means the Raw Champion should be a face, which means the Raw Champion SHOULDN'T be Triple H(seeing as how he just turned heel).

RVD has the history with Brock as not only the guy Brock beat in the KOTR finals, but also the guy Brock's has the most trouble against(TWICE RVD's had him beaten only for Heyman to cause a DQ).

There have been too many title changes this year as it is, so the WHOLE list of title changes that should happen between now and Mania is this:

-RVD beats HHH for the Raw Title at Survivor Series(HHH retains by the skin of his teeth at Unforgiven, RVD stays in the hunt, maybe gets advice from Michaels, finally takes it in November)
-RVD beats Brock to reunify the belts at Wrestlemania.

As far as my original statement goes, I wasn't just saying that HHH will retain against, I was saying that HHH SHOULD retain against RVD because otherwise the Raw Title is another meaningless, passed-around belt.

-Patrick
The Amazing Salami
Sujuk








Since: 23.5.02
From: Oklahoma

Since last post: 3705 days
Last activity: 3704 days
#20 Posted on
I think a heel v. heel match would go over fine if it was Brock v. HHH. Especially if they both retain until the next Wrestlemania.



"I'm in collision with every stone I ever threw." - David Gray
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I'm waiting for the SWF diva's, now that would be interesting, or sick, i dunno which.
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