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The W - Baseball - All-Time Mets team
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count olaf
Goetta








Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 3467 days
Last activity: 3464 days
#1 Posted on
C- Mike Piazza. Maybe it's due to my current frustration, but I thought I'd be going with Carter before I did my research. Gary's bat really did not compare to Piazza's despite his advantages in the field and the clubhouse.

1B- Keith Hernandez. With respect for the longetivity of Ed Kranepool, the trade for Keith in 83 was the first big move in the team's renaissance in the mid 80s.

2B- Edgardo Alfonzo. After Keith at first, there's not too much to choose from in the infield. Consideration went to Felix Millan, but two of Fonzie's three years at second were exceptional.

3B- Howard Johnson. Three 30/30 seasons and some consistency at a position where the Mets had very little over the first twenty years of the organization.

SS- Bud Harrelson. A hardnosed player who hustled every day. Just ask Pete Rose.

LF- Cleon Jones. The best hitter on the '69 champs.

CF- Mookie Wilson. Everybody's favorite Met. Mookie says that he would've beat Buckner to the base even if Bill actually fielded the ball. I believe him. I remember Mookie twice scoring from second on infield groundouts.

RF- Darryl Strawberry. All time team leader in runs, HRs, and RBIs. Darryl brought so much joy to me as a child and I wish him the best of luck in turning his life around.

SP- Tom Seaver. He's the man. The best pitcher in the team's history.

SP- Dwight Gooden. So much potential. Watching Clemens prepare to win number 300 has made me wonder what could've been for Dr. K.

SP- Jerry Koosman. A great pitcher for the '69 champs and quite a few very bad teams through the 70s.

SP- Ron Darling. Chosen over Cone due to consistency over a longer period of time.

RP- John Franco. One of the handfull of legitimate Hall of Famers who spent the majority of their career in a Mets uniform.

Manager- Davey Johnson. Remember how he was meant to be revolutionary because he used the computer?

(edited by count olaf on 26.5.03 0017)
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Downtown Bookie
Morcilla








Since: 7.4.02
From: The Inner City, Now Living In The Country

Since last post: 112 days
Last activity: 6 days
#2 Posted on
Just my opinion, of course, but while I agree with nearly all your selections Count, I personally would prefer to have Tommie Agee leading off and playing Center Field on my all-time Mets team. For those too young to have seen him play, Agee was a tremendous athlete, possessing skills similiar to Bo Jackson in his prime. Like Bo, Agee had a tremendous amount of raw talent. However, unlike Bo, Agee did not have a burning competitive nature, nor would Agee ever be accused of being a conditioning freak. In fact, Agee's failure to stay in playing shape, along with recurring back injuries, would lead to his baseball career being over while he was still only thirty-one. So while I would select Agee over Mookie Wilson in Center, it would be a bittersweet selection, forever tainted by the thought of what might have been.

In addition, I would give strong consideration to putting Tug McGraw in the bullpen, if not over John Franco, at least along side him. While Franco's career is definitely HOF caliber, keep in mind that the role of the relief pitcher in today's game is very different from what it was during the Sixties and Seventies, the peak of McGraw's career. Like all relief pitchers of that period, McGraw's appearances were not limited to save situations and often lasted more than one inning. Finally, McGraw earns a special place on any all-time Mets roster, as he was the first Mets pitcher ever to beat Sandy Koufax. So, while I agree with you about having Franco in the bullpen, I'd have Tug McGraw out there with him. Oh, and since we should have a righthander in the pen as well, I'd also put Ron Taylor out there. Or maybe Roger McDowell.

Of course, if you want to have some real fun, you could build a pretty incredible all-time team made up of players who played at least one game for the New York Mets, even if their best playing days were spent in the uniforms of other teams. Imagine a starting rotation that includes Warren Spahn and Nolan Ryan along with Tom Seaver, with either Yogi Berra, Mike Piazza, Gary Carter or Joe Torre (ranked # 1, # 5, # 8 and # 11 respectively all-time at Catcher according to Bill James in his Historical Baseball Abstract) serving as their battery mate (though it's probably best to move Torre to Third Base, as even using this method the Mets are rather short on talent at the hot corner). Or how about a Center Field roster consisting of Willie Mays, Duke Snider, Richie Ashburn, Amos Otis and Brett Butler (ranked # 1, # 6, # 16, # 22 and # 25 respectively all-time in Center Field, again according to Bill James in his Historical Baseball Abstract)? Of course, Left Field would belong to the man considered by many to be the greatest lead-off hitter of all time, Ricky Henderson. Roberto Alomar gets the nod over Jeff Kent and Willie Randolph as the starting Second Baseman (perhaps Kent could join Torre at third), while Keith Hernandez and Gil Hodges would be the back-ups to starting First Baseman Eddie Murray. Meanwhile, Larry Bowa and Gary Templeton give you a pair of switch-hitting Shortstops with over two thousand lifetime hits apiece; however, I'd probably start Jim Fregosi over both of them. Just some food for thought.




Patiently waiting to be Stratusfied.
count olaf
Goetta








Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 3467 days
Last activity: 3464 days
#3 Posted on
Agee was my first thought when I considered center field, but IMO Mookie was a more consistent producer for a longer period of time. Agee played five years with the Mets and only three of those seasons, 69-71 appear to be very productive me to. His numbers in 68 (80 hits, 30 runs, 5 HR, 17 RBI and .217 average) and 72 (96 hits, 52 runs, 13 HR, 47 RBI, and .227 average in 114 games) were less inspiring. To me, Mookie was more consistent, batting .271, .279, .276, .276, .276, .289, .299, and .296 in his eight full seasons with the team. Mookie didn't have the power Agee showed in 69 and 70, but that wasn't his job. Keep in mind that I grew up with Mookie and wasn't around in time to see Agee play.

I do agree about the bullpen. I stuck with the "one reliever" framework that had been used throughout these threads, and Franco turned out to be my man. But Tug McGraw was great, as were Taylor and McDowell. Somehow we'd have to find a way to sneak Jesse Orosco in there as well.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 312 days
Last activity: 306 days
#4 Posted on

SP-Seaver, Cone, Gooden, Koosman and Matlack.

Matlack was SOOOOOOO much better than Darling, but on horrific offensive teams.

OF-Strawberry, C. Jones and Rusty Staub

Just watch Staub's pain in the 1973 series. I would want his spine in my lineup.

3B-HoJo

No other candidate really.

SS-Rey Ordonez

A better player than the overrated Harrelson, who started only because there wasn't anyone else.

2B-Ron Hunt

Over a young Kent.

1B-Hernandez

C-Carter

Would love to put Hodges here, but Carter was almost as good on defense. Piazza couldn't handle this pitching staff.

RP-Franco

McGraw wasn't always the closer on the team.

(edited by Eddie Famous on 26.5.03 1838)


George Washington gave his signature
The Government gave its hand
They said for now and ever more that this was Indian Land

"As long as the moon shall rise"
"As long as the rivers flow"
"As long as the sun will shine"
"As long as the grass shall grow"


Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#5 Posted on
You make a good point with Staub. Le Grand Orange certainly had an important role in Mets history. I'm not sure which outfielder you plan to put in center, though.

Rey over Bud is interesting. In the 70s, a good-fielding shortstop didn't need to hit. Now, the attitudes are different. Everyone talks about Rey as a bad offensive player, but his numbers are a heck of a lot better than, say, Mark Belanger's. Still, I have to opt for Harrelson--you can't totally separate the records from the context.

"Piazza couldn't handle this pitching staff"? Why not? Piazza's a very good handler of pitchers. In fact, he's good at every aspect of catching other than throwing out baserunners, although of course that's the most important aspect. I can see making a case for Carter (although I wouldn't agree with it) but I do hope you were kidding about Ron Hodges. He'd not only be behind Kid and Piazza, but behind Jerry Grote and Todd Hundley as well.

Ron Hunt over Edgardo Alfonzo? I realize that Fonzie spent a lot of his Mets time over at third, but I wouldn't hold that against him. No comparison. And Alfonzo has to earn extra points for actually taking out ads all over NYC thanking the fans for their support when he left. B^)
The Thrill
Banger








Since: 16.4.02
From: Green Bay, WI

Since last post: 167 days
Last activity: 13 days
#6 Posted on

"America may have some problems, but it's our home. Our team. And if you don't wanna root for your team...then you should get the hell out of the stadium. Go America." --Stan Marsh, South Park

At the risk of getting the bejeebus beat out of me by my roommate who's in the Red Sox nation...

...where's the honorary slot for Bill Buckner? (ba-dum-bum)



Star wipe, and...we're out.
Thrillin' ain't easy.

.
.
THE THRILL
ACW-NWA Wisconsin Home Video Technical Director...& A2NWO 4 Life!

All-Star Championship Wrestling...now a proud member of the NWA!


Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 312 days
Last activity: 306 days
#7 Posted on


    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    You make a good point with Staub. Le Grand Orange certainly had an important role in Mets history. I'm not sure which outfielder you plan to put in center, though.

    Rey over Bud is interesting. In the 70s, a good-fielding shortstop didn't need to hit. Now, the attitudes are different. Everyone talks about Rey as a bad offensive player, but his numbers are a heck of a lot better than, say, Mark Belanger's. Still, I have to opt for Harrelson--you can't totally separate the records from the context.

    "Piazza couldn't handle this pitching staff"? Why not? Piazza's a very good handler of pitchers. In fact, he's good at every aspect of catching other than throwing out baserunners, although of course that's the most important aspect. I can see making a case for Carter (although I wouldn't agree with it) but I do hope you were kidding about Ron Hodges. He'd not only be behind Kid and Piazza, but behind Jerry Grote and Todd Hundley as well.

    Ron Hunt over Edgardo Alfonzo? I realize that Fonzie spent a lot of his Mets time over at third, but I wouldn't hold that against him. No comparison. And Alfonzo has to earn extra points for actually taking out ads all over NYC thanking the fans for their support when he left. B^)



1. Jones played some center field before/after Agee.

2. Harrelson wasn't even a full-time starter most of the time....

3. Seaver would slice Piazza's throat for his bad arm, and I meant to type Grote

4. Hunt was the first real Met All-Star.




George Washington gave his signature
The Government gave its hand
They said for now and ever more that this was Indian Land

"As long as the moon shall rise"
"As long as the rivers flow"
"As long as the sun will shine"
"As long as the grass shall grow"


Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#8 Posted on



>> 1. Jones played some center field before/after Agee.

Fair enough.

>> 2. Harrelson wasn't even a full-time starter most of the time....

Um...what? Bud was the starter pretty much for my whole childhood. 100+ games for 10 of 11 years in a row (he missed a lot of 1975 with an injury). He led the team in games played twice. He was also a two time All-Star and one time Gold Glover. Granted, Bud wasn't much of a hitter, but then the only time the Mets have EVER had a decent hitter at short is when they've played a non-shortstop at the position like HoJo or Joe McEwing.

>> 3. Seaver would slice Piazza's throat for his bad arm, and I meant to type Grote

Well, I think he'd learn to live with it for his bat.

>> 4. Hunt was the first real Met All-Star.

He had a couple of good years with them. Fonzie was with the team twice as long, hit for a (slightly) higher average, and twice had more homeruns in a season than Hunt had in his entire run with the club. Hunt isn't even close to Edgardo.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 312 days
Last activity: 306 days
#9 Posted on


    Originally posted by Downtown Bookie
    Of course, if you want to have some real fun, you could build a pretty incredible all-time team made up of players who played at least one game for the New York Mets, even if their best playing days were spent in the uniforms of other teams.


C-Berra
1b-G. Hodges
2b-Zimmer
ss-Roy McMillan
3b-Ken Boyer
of-Mays
of-Snider
of-Ashburn or Gus Bell

p-Spahn
p-Frank Lary
p-Ralph Terry
p-Vinegar Bend Mizell
p-Bob Freind

Yes, you could.....



George Washington gave his signature
The Government gave its hand
They said for now and ever more that this was Indian Land

"As long as the moon shall rise"
"As long as the rivers flow"
"As long as the sun will shine"
"As long as the grass shall grow"


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NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Well, so much for my pipe dream of the Blue Jays finishing higher than third this year. Fuck the Yankees.
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