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The W - Baseball - All-Time Greatest Padres 1969-2002
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Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 368 days
Last activity: 362 days
#1 Posted on
Since I did one of the 1969 expansion teams, why not the other three? Pads first:

1b: Ryan Klesko
2b: Robby Alomar
ss: Garry Templeton
3b: Phil Nevin
of: Dave Winfield
of: Gene Richards
of: Tony Gwynn
c: Terry Kennedy
sp: Randy jones
rp: Rollie Fingers


Special mention to Nate Colbert



***Outrighted to Jersey City (IL) April 15, 2002***

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Ffej
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

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Y!:
#2 Posted on
I love Garry Templeton! I mean two r's in Garry and a last name like Templeton. How can you not love that guy!



I think if you are in the passing lane, and not passing, your license should be revoked, and you should be forced to ride the bus until you promise to never delay the rest of us again.
--George Carlin
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 162 days
Last activity: 129 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18

Templeton was a good player, but ahead of Ozzie? Yeah, he might not have been there as long, but it's Ozzie.

Without benefit of numbers in front of me, I'd also say McGriff ahead of Klesko.

I'll have more to say about this one once I get home and study the Bill James.



Banded together from remote galaxies are thirteen of the most sinister villains of all-time: The Legion of Doom. Dedicated to a single objective: the conquest of the universe.
Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#4 Posted on
You forgot manager - which has to be Bruce Bochy.

People that should be considered:

Ken Caminiti - 1996 NL MVP
Gary Sheffield - 1992 NL Batting Champ (.330)
Fred McGriff - 1992 NL HR leader (35)
Randy Jones - 1976 Cy Young, 1975 ERA Champ (2.24), Good BBQ
Mark Davis - 1989 Cy Young
Gaylord Perry - 1978 Cy Young
Andy Benes - 1994 Strikeout leader (189)
Joe Carter
Greg Vaughn
Steve Garvey
Sandy Alomar
Benito Santiago
Wally Joyner

I'm sure I'm forgetting people

//edit:

Alan Wiggins!
Kevin McReynolds
Randy Myers
Rickey Henderson




(edited by Guru Zim on 31.5.02 1149)


I love it when a plan comes together
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 106 days
Last activity: 106 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
Now is this taking into account the player's entire career, or just their time with the Padres? Some of the guys you listed Guru reached their greatest success after leaving San Diego.
Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#6 Posted on
I'm counting anyone to ever wear the uniform for the all time team.

I'm only listinging the achievements made while a Padre though for things like Cy Young or batting titles.

Isn't that how we did the Expos team?



I love it when a plan comes together
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 162 days
Last activity: 129 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18

    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I'm counting anyone to ever wear the uniform for the all time team.

    I'm only listinging the achievements made while a Padre though for things like Cy Young or batting titles.

    Isn't that how we did the Expos team?



I remember bringing that point up, but I don't ever remember there being a conclusion or consensus.

Who was manager on the 84 team?

And what about Trader Jack? He belongs somewhere on there.



Banded together from remote galaxies are thirteen of the most sinister villains of all-time: The Legion of Doom. Dedicated to a single objective: the conquest of the universe.
quagmire
Mettwurst








Since: 31.1.02
From: Springfield, MA

Since last post: 3834 days
Last activity: 939 days
#8 Posted on

    I remember bringing that point up, but I don't ever remember there being a conclusion or consensus.


not that it matters, but i thought it would make more sense if the player is chosen only for the time they spent with that particular team. for example, i wouldn't put ryne sandberg on an all-time phillies list. i'm sure there are countless other examples, too.


    Who was manager on the 84 team?


dick williams?

how about some consideration for trevor hoffman as closer?



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Scorpio: We don't have bums in our town, Marge, and if we did, they wouldn't rush, they'd be allowed to go at their own pace.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
It would be like saying Babe Ruth is the greatest home run hitter in Red Sox history.
Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#10 Posted on
Hoffman is the obvious choice for closer. I had him down on the first draft of that post but I changed the format because I couldn't really argue some of my choices (Benito Santiago for catcher on the merits of his ROTY season for example).

Hoffman is one of the best closers ever, and an obvious HOF choice.



I love it when a plan comes together
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 368 days
Last activity: 362 days
#11 Posted on
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    You forgot manager - which has to be Bruce Bochy.-not Preston Gomez?

    People that should be considered:

    Ken Caminiti - 1996 NL MVP-close but Nevin's last year was immense
    Gary Sheffield - 1992 NL Batting Champ (.330)-nah
    Fred McGriff - 1992 NL HR leader (35)-too many first basemen
    Randy Jones - 1976 Cy Young, 1975 ERA Champ (2.24), Good BBQ- I picked him!
    Mark Davis - 1989 Cy Young-bah
    Gaylord Perry - 1978 Cy Young-Jones better, longer for SD
    Andy Benes - 1994 Strikeout leader (189)-bah
    Joe Carter-like him but too short a career
    Greg Vaughn-no
    Steve Garvey-compared to Klesko-no
    Sandy Alomar-hardly played
    Benito Santiago-maybe
    Wally Joyner-yuk

    I'm sure I'm forgetting people

    //edit:

    Alan Wiggins!-not as good as Alomar
    Kevin McReynolds-close but Richards was underrated
    Randy Myers-ok
    Rickey Henderson-nah




    (edited by Guru Zim on 31.5.02 1149)



I'm only including time spent on the Padres. Elsewise Willie McCovey would be the first baseman hands down!

(edited by Eddie Famous on 31.5.02 1717)


***Outrighted to Jersey City (IL) April 15, 2002***

Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#12 Posted on
Dammit I lost the post I just wrote up.

Wiggins had drug problems, but the guy made more of an impact in his 3 years here in San Diego than Alomar did in his 3 years here. Check his 1984 Season stats (70 SB, 106 runs) to see how he was a big part of that World Series team.

They are about even in BA and OBP - but the SB and Runs put Wiggins ahead.

//edit:

Wiggins: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=wiggial01

Alomar: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=alomaro01



(edited by Guru Zim on 31.5.02 1827)

I love it when a plan comes together
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 368 days
Last activity: 362 days
#13 Posted on

However, Wiggins only played one full year at second base, and stunk it up with 36 errors....


From mlb.com, lifetime Padre marks (hope this is semi-legible)


Picks left Player TEAM POS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
1. R Alomar* SD 2B 448 1754 246 497 78 12 22 157 665 148 231 90 30 .339 .379 .283
2. Q Veras* SD 2B 415 1531 248 414 72 5 15 131 541 221 250 87 38 .366 .353 .270
3. A Wiggins SD 2B 168 633 109 156 20 7 3 34 199 77 61 70 22 .329 .314 .246
4. B Roberts SD 2B 323 1068 152 309 33 10 6 75 380 90 157 61 30 .347 .356 .289
5. D Campbell SD 2B 295 1044 111 232 45 4 19 77 342 84 205 28 13 .279 .328 .222


It's a fair cop either way, I still give an edge to Alomar though



(edited by Eddie Famous on 31.5.02 1907)


***Outrighted to Jersey City (IL) April 15, 2002***

odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 162 days
Last activity: 129 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18
I love Ozzie, but here are the numbers from Bill James' Win Shares.

Ozzie

1979 7
1980 17
1981 8

Templeton

1982 11
1983 10
1984 16
1985 21 (highest on team)
1986 8
1987 6
1988 12
1989 11
1990 10

Also, who are the automatics? Off the top of my head, I'd say: Tony, Winfield and Hoffman.

Here are other names to throw out:

Gaylord Perry, Eric Show (Mr. John Birch / 4192), Terry Kennedy, Steve Finley

(edited by odessasteps on 31.5.02 2153)


Banded together from remote galaxies are thirteen of the most sinister villains of all-time: The Legion of Doom.
Dedicated to a single objective: the conquest of the universe.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#15 Posted on
I found a webpage with an alltime Padres team and their second basemen was Bip Roberts!! Woohoo! I've always been a Bip Roberts fan ever since that Beckett magazine commercial where Gwynn is talking and Bip is looking at the magazine and Bip exclaims "My card is worth.." then he says some high price. Then Gwynn says, "no, that's Robin Roberts, your card is five cents"



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 106 days
Last activity: 106 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by odessasteps
    I love Ozzie, but here are the numbers from Bill James' Win Shares.

    Ozzie

    1979 7
    1980 17
    1981 8

    Templeton

    1982 11
    1983 10
    1984 16
    1985 21 (highest on team)
    1986 8
    1987 6
    1988 12
    1989 11
    1990 10

    Also, who are the automatics? Off the top of my head, I'd say: Tony, Winfield and Hoffman.

    Here are other names to throw out:

    Gaylord Perry, Eric Show (Mr. John Birch / 4192), Terry Kennedy, Steve Finley

    (edited by odessasteps on 31.5.02 2153)



What exactly do those numbers mean?
squiz
Salami








Since: 5.1.02
From: Dover, NH

Since last post: 1155 days
Last activity: 257 days
AIM:  
#17 Posted on
I would have Nate Colbert at 1B instead of Klesko or Garvey.




Hej, jag har en gris i byxorna.

odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 162 days
Last activity: 129 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    What exactly do those numbers mean?


To oversimply, Bill James came up with a system (which can be found in his book called WIN SHARES, as well as James' new Historical Abstract) where each team's win is worth three points and then they are awarded to three players.

In 2001, the Pads had 79 wins, so they had 237 Win Shares to distribute. Nevin had 31, Klesko 29, Trammell 17 and so on down to 11 players with one.

I'm sure you could google around the net to find more precise explanations. I know James did a chat on ESPN.com and Rob Neyer is a James disciple.






Banded together from remote galaxies are 13 of the most sinister villains of all-time: The Legion of Doom.
Dedicated to a single objective: the conquest of the universe.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 106 days
Last activity: 106 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
So the three players who get points are the ones deemed most responsible for the team picking up the victory?
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 162 days
Last activity: 129 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18
If only it were that easy.

The "short" way to figure out Win Shares, as given by James in his book, is 13 steps long.

Rather than clutter up this thread, I'll start a new one.







Banded together from remote galaxies are 13 of the most sinister villains of all-time: The Legion of Doom.
Dedicated to a single objective: the conquest of the universe.
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