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The W - Baseball - All-Star selections -- Let the Griping Begin! (Page 2)
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avonhun
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Since: 21.4.04

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.37
paul konerko
adrian beltre

i would like to see these guys on

i just with the fans had some sense. voting giami in when he hits .238 with 11 homers. he should be embarrased to go out there.
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by Spiraling_Shape
    Speaking of MIA Phillies, where is Eric Milton and his 11 wins?


The thing with Milton is, he has 11 wins and that's about it. Impressive, yes, but hardly amazing, given the kind of run support he's been getting.

As for the Carpenter argument, someone already took Pavano, and Sheets has been pitching lights-out all year. 7-5, 113(!) K's, 2.58 / 0.91. Carpenter's been good, but not that good.

Good to see Estrada getting on the NL team.
beefncheddar
Linguica








Since: 16.2.04
From: Mt. Pleasant, SC

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#23 Posted on
After a little research by a phriend on a Phils board:

If we looked at the games where the Phillies scored below their average of just over 5 runs a game, Milton has a 3.00 ERA. In games where they score above their average (6 or more runs), he has a 6.07 ERA.

So, I don't think he is getting lucky. He is pitching better in games where the team needs him to pitch better. Several times, he's given up runs in games where we were already well ahead, when it really didn't matter.

He's given up more than 4 runs in only two starts. I wouldn't call that lucky. Nor is it lucky that he had no decisions in starts where he gave up 1 run in 6 innings, 2 runs in 5 innings, and 4 runs in 6 innings.
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.70
    Originally posted by beefncheddar
    After a little research by a phriend on a Phils board:

    If we looked at the games where the Phillies scored below their average of just over 5 runs a game, Milton has a 3.00 ERA. In games where they score above their average (6 or more runs), he has a 6.07 ERA.

    So, I don't think he is getting lucky. He is pitching better in games where the team needs him to pitch better. Several times, he's given up runs in games where we were already well ahead, when it really didn't matter.

    He's given up more than 4 runs in only two starts. I wouldn't call that lucky. Nor is it lucky that he had no decisions in starts where he gave up 1 run in 6 innings, 2 runs in 5 innings, and 4 runs in 6 innings.


Having a 4.48 ERA and 1.53 WHIP but being 11-2 is lucky no matter how it's sliced.

He's got wins in five non-Quality Starts - which the 6 IP/4 ER no-decision was not. Saying he's pitched better in games where the team needs him to pitch better is every bit as fair as saying the team has hit better in games where HE needed THEM to pick him up, since his wins are split in half between games where he was mediocre -> bad and games where he was good. To say he would or wouldn't have still given up those runs whether they were ahead or not is guesswork either way, but logic says he probably would have.

(edited by ScottChrist on 5.7.04 2004)


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Spiraling_Shape
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Since: 2.1.02
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
Oh I think Abreu deserves to be there more than Milton too, but as a Phils fan and with my team (barely) in first place, it would`ve been nice to have more than one All-Star. Hopefully Bobby will win that vote, but I doubt it...then again, there`s always the injured players that get replaced in the week before the game.



"I've had more ups and down than a whore's drawers."
MUTigermask
Boudin rouge








Since: 8.10.03
From: Columbia MO

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#26 Posted on
"Vgmastr...Overbay got screwed, no doubt, but (one of) thing(s)that hurt him was that Pujols was listed as a first basmen. To my knowledge, he has played less than five games at that position all season."

Um, Pujols has been at first every game he has started, except a few as a DH.
Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
    Originally posted by MUTigermask
    "Vgmastr...Overbay got screwed, no doubt, but (one of) thing(s)that hurt him was that Pujols was listed as a first basmen. To my knowledge, he has played less than five games at that position all season."

    Um, Pujols has been at first every game he has started, except a few as a DH.



I realized that much later when looking at his splits. My mind wasn't exactly clear when I wrote that, for some reason, I thought he'd been in left for most of the season.




(Not Bob Kohm)


In the context of baseball, the use of drugs hurts only the player. In the context of baseball, the use of alcohol hurts only the player. In the context of baseball, womanizing hurts whom? Maybe the wife of the player? In the context of baseball, felonies are crimes against society, not against baseball. In the context of baseball, gambling is the only crime against baseball.

Gambling, in the context of baseball, is a capital offense and Rose has richly earned-- hell, he agreed to-- his death sentence. Let him hang.

Bob Kohm, co-owner of Rotojunkies.com (rotojunkies.com) , and a large market kind of guy.
beefncheddar
Linguica








Since: 16.2.04
From: Mt. Pleasant, SC

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#28 Posted on
ScottChrist,

I certainly won't argue that Milton should definitely be there. It's easy to leave a guy out when his ERA is that high, regardless of his record.

The omission of Abreu, though, I'll continue to believe is downright criminal. But I guess McKeon just HAD to have Barry Larkin as his third SS.
estragand
Summer sausage








Since: 18.6.02

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.79
    Originally posted by beefncheddar
    But I guess McKeon just HAD to have Barry Larkin as his third SS.

From what I understand, Barry's hanging it up at the end of the season. Athough he's had a decent year, I see this as more of a "career appreciation" pick, similar to the way Tony Gwynn was included in 2001. I expect they'll work in some sort of mini-ceremony during the game.

Of course, I would have raised a monstrous ruckus if Larkin had taken Jack Wilson's spot.



-ES
Visit ES online- it's "Internet Entertainment"!
beefncheddar
Linguica








Since: 16.2.04
From: Mt. Pleasant, SC

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#30 Posted on
Larkin has been to the game 11 times. And, I'm sorry, but Barry Larkin isn't so big that he merits some kind of lifetime achievement award.

Especially if "THIS TIME IT COUNTS!!!!" Just what I want to see, 40-year-old Barry Larkin pushing his walker up to the plate with home field in the WS on the line.

Heaven forbid they actually reward a guy who hasn't been there before, like, oh, Bobby Abreu. Nah, better to have a geriatric THIRD shortstop in case the starter and should-be-starter spontaneously combust or something. And even then, I'd rather have Mark Loretta at short instead of Larkin.

Rock the Vote (hardballtimes.com)

(edited by beefncheddar on 6.7.04 0237)
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I've got two names that got royall screwed(both Orioles of course).

Melvin Mora- .347, 10 HR, 38 RBI. I know he hasn't been playing, but for christ's sake....

B.J. Ryan got screwed too...



God Bless Ronald Reagan, and may he rest in peace...

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Fellow Americans, here lies a graceful and a gallant man.
- Dick Cheney, 6/9/2004


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skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.81
I think the AL picks were much less screwy than the NL picks. The only AL controversies are Loazia instead of Konerko and Lilly instead of Halladay/Batista. The Giambi pick is crazy, but it was made by the fans as was Sosa who isn't having an All-Star year either.

The NL had Larkin playing instead of Clayton. At this point in his career Larkin is a platoon player. JD Drew has better numbers than most of the NL All-Star outfielders. Abreu got robbed the most. Beltran deserves it even though he got traded, his full year stats should carry-over to the NL. I'd also like to take a close look at Carpenter (Cardnals are winning that division) and Lidge for NL pitching.

The one they got right was Pavano. He is Florida's only top starter and he did score with Alyssa Milano.

The AL got the right number of Yankees considering they have baseball's best record and Vasquez, Posada, and Matsui were left off. Sheffield and Rivera may also take the weekend off.

The case for Pedro really falls apart when you put him against Vasquez who has more wins 9-8, a better ERA 3.50 to 3.74, and a better WHIP 1.13 to 1.15.

The case for Takatsu against Gordon is also very weak. Gordon has a 1.66 ERA and a 0.84 WHIP. He has been in more pressure situations than Taka. Gordon has a leading 21 Holds, Taka has only 4. If Gordon was on the White Sox, he'd already have over 20 saves and would be the clear choice.

SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.70
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    I'd also like to take a close look at Carpenter (Cardnals are winning that division) and Lidge for NL pitching.


Look at the NL pitchers and tell me Chris Carpenter deserves to be on more than any of them. Glavine, Clemens, Johnson, Zambrano, Sheets and Schmidt are all having Cy Young-worthy seasons. Pavano has been better than Carpenter. Livan Hernandez is the most deserving Expo. Brad Penny was about as snubbed as Carpenter.


    The case for Takatsu against Gordon is also very weak. Gordon has a 1.66 ERA and a 0.84 WHIP. He has been in more pressure situations than Taka. Gordon has a leading 21 Holds, Taka has only 4. If Gordon was on the White Sox, he'd already have over 20 saves and would be the clear choice.


Yes but he isn't. Konerko was squeezed out because of the position he plays, Loaiza foolishly got a bid he didn't deserve, holds were invented to get middle relievers more money, and Takatsu was the best White Sox candidate of the ones that were going to be available, which is the fans' screw-up for voting Giambi in when Frank Thomas should've been there instead. Tom Gordon being a good middle reliever does not make him an All-Star, and even not counting Takatsu and taking Loaiza for reasons that cannot be explained, you're taking Gordon over Keith Foulke and Eddie Guardado. The case for Gordon overall is about as weak as the incidental case of Gordon v. Takatsu.



dotcom // cubs.org // let's go hero
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Abreu and Matsui took their respective leagues' 32nd man honors.

Damn Japanese voting as a bloc...



In Theo We Trust
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Abreu and Matsui took their respective leagues' 32nd man honors.

    Damn Japanese voting as a bloc...
Good thing Shinjo wasn't on the ballot....



"I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fucked up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college bullshit I got two words for that: learn to fuckin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuckin' surprise."
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Not to sound (too) loony, but MLB had to know that Konerko and Thomas would split the CHI vote and give Matsui almost a free pass.



In Theo We Trust
Roy.
Pepperoni








Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.72
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Abreu and Matsui took their respective leagues' 32nd man honors.

    Damn Japanese voting as a bloc...


As of the start of the Phillies/Mets game last night at 7, Abreu was several thousand votes behind, according to the radio guys. There was a rain delay, and all during the rain delay show on the radio, the hosts kept encouraging people to go online and vote for Abreu. I think that was one of the reasons that he won.



Gravity is a contributing factor in nearly 73 percent of all accidents involving falling objects.
estragand
Summer sausage








Since: 18.6.02

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.79
    Originally posted by Roy.
    As of the start of the Phillies/Mets game last night at 7, Abreu was several thousand votes behind, according to the radio guys. There was a rain delay, and all during the rain delay show on the radio, the hosts kept encouraging people to go online and vote for Abreu. I think that was one of the reasons that he won.

I'd agree with that. I remember in 1992 when Philly fans stuffed entire trailers with ballots voting for John Kruk and Darren Daulton.

Also, each respective team of the 32nd men sent out email announcements to their subscriber list. For instance, I'm on the Pirates list and I received a notice asking to me to vote-in Jason Kendall. Last year I received one pertaining to Kenny Lofton.



-ES
Visit ES online- it's "Internet Entertainment"!
TwisterF5
Italian








Since: 18.2.04
From: The Houston 'burbs

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.01

SP -- Livan Hernandez, Montreal 6-8 3.58

Further proof that the "at least one person from every team" rule is total bullcrap. 6-8, 3.58 looks more like his height and weight, doesn't it? I guess he should thank Vlad and Vasquez for leaving town and not taking the Montreal spot.





"Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought this on" - Tony Soprano
Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.27
    Originally posted by TwisterF5

    SP -- Livan Hernandez, Montreal 6-8 3.58

    Further proof that the "at least one person from every team" rule is total bullcrap. 6-8, 3.58 looks more like his height and weight, doesn't it? I guess he should thank Vlad and Vasquez for leaving town and not taking the Montreal spot.




Livan's win total has been brutalized by the Expos' ineffectiveness at the plate. On an actual Major League team, that record would be at least reversed, at best he'd have 10 wins.




(Not Bob Kohm)


In the context of baseball, the use of drugs hurts only the player. In the context of baseball, the use of alcohol hurts only the player. In the context of baseball, womanizing hurts whom? Maybe the wife of the player? In the context of baseball, felonies are crimes against society, not against baseball. In the context of baseball, gambling is the only crime against baseball.

Gambling, in the context of baseball, is a capital offense and Rose has richly earned-- hell, he agreed to-- his death sentence. Let him hang.

Bob Kohm, co-owner of Rotojunkies.com (rotojunkies.com) , and a large market kind of guy.
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I'm chalking it up to just coming back - although you would think he wouldn't come back until he's ready...
- TheCow, Bud Smith (2002)
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