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The W - Current Events & Politics - All major networks declare Barack Obama president-elect (Page 3)
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KJames199
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Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by Broncolanche
      Originally posted by Nag
      Well the people have spoken, if its socialism you want, you got it America.

      And when the inevitable mass shooting occurs and the Obama and the dems decide to infringe on my constitutional rights, I'll speak to.

      ex cineribus resurgam!
    Hey cool maybe you can move to Canada or Australia now.
Don't be dragging us into your nonsense.



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Lise
Mrs. Guru








Since: 11.12.01

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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.43
Ok, I'm here for my pancakes!

Someone promised pancakes after election day. I'll even settle for those nummy maple shortbread pancake cookies...
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by KJames199
      Originally posted by Broncolanche
        Originally posted by Nag
        Well the people have spoken, if its socialism you want, you got it America.

        And when the inevitable mass shooting occurs and the Obama and the dems decide to infringe on my constitutional rights, I'll speak to.

        ex cineribus resurgam!
      Hey cool maybe you can move to Canada or Australia now.
    Don't be dragging us into your nonsense.


Actually, they did last election when people were debating/threatening on moving up here when Bush got his second term. I think due to the "mass shooting" comment, Nag's other concerns (which I have heard echoed from friends I have in the US) got lost in the shuffle.

Not that my opinion matters being a Canadian, but I can't say I'm pleased with the result. I disagree with many (many many) of Obama's policies and beliefs, both socially and economically. That said, congrads to him for his victory, and for one more racial barrier goign down. I hope things work out well for our neighbors down south.



You know, I really don't know what to put here. Close your eyes and thank of something funny!
CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.94
F.Y.I.

www.newseum.com has the front page of every major newspaper on the Obama historic win.

Interesting how it's being chronicled.


Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
There's apparently a rumor around Washington that McCain will be offered Secretary of State. I'd be happy to see that.

One dark thing on an otherwise happy election day: the passing of Proposition 8 reversing the legalization of gay marriage in California. This is pure bigotry and sets the country back many years in moving toward equality. (As in: if it had passed, marriage equality might be a reality nationwide in a decade or two; now it will take much longer, I think.) The Mormon Church in particular for its efforts to impose its religious belief on others. I find this very, very upsetting.

On a happier note, I was thrilled to see that Elizabeth Dole was spanked for falsely accusing her opponent of being an atheist. I hope we will see the day where actually *being* an atheist isn't a bar to political success, but we take what we can get.
DJ FrostyFreeze
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.27
Read it and weep, fella


    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    There's apparently a rumor around Washington that McCain will be offered Secretary of State. I'd be happy to see that.
I would too actually, but would he take it??



CLICK OR DIE
OlFuzzyBastard
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Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    There's apparently a rumor around Washington that McCain will be offered Secretary of State. I'd be happy to see that.


I wonder if there's any validity to that, or if they're just saying that because that's what Matt Santos did on The West Wing. (Seriously, if you've never seen the last two seasons of that show - go check them out. It is this election to a tee. Well, the Alan Alda's McCain surrogate didn't pick a running mate who was legally retarded, but otherwise it's eerily spot-on.)

If I ran the circus, I'd make Hillary Clinton Secretary of State, make John McCain Secretary of Defense and start the next four years out with a country that's as united as it's going to get these days.

EDIT: And now that Missouri has finally been called for McCain, I would like to be the first to congratulate Freeway for being the only person to get the electoral prediction thread exactly right.

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 5.11.08 1527)
El Nastio
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Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    There's apparently a rumor around Washington that McCain will be offered Secretary of State. I'd be happy to see that.

    One dark thing on an otherwise happy election day: the passing of Proposition 8 reversing the legalization of gay marriage in California. This is pure bigotry and sets the country back many years in moving toward equality. (As in: if it had passed, marriage equality might be a reality nationwide in a decade or two; now it will take much longer, I think.) The Mormon Church in particular for its efforts to impose its religious belief on others. I find this very, very upsetting.

    On a happier note, I was thrilled to see that Elizabeth Dole was spanked for falsely accusing her opponent of being an atheist. I hope we will see the day where actually *being* an atheist isn't a bar to political success, but we take what we can get.


Something that bothers me at times is when people say things like “people forcing their beliefs on others”. It bothers me because the statement itself is kind of ironic.

People of several faiths and religions believe that marriage is defined as one man and one woman. This is not bigotry towards homosexuals themselves, rather it is the belief of how marriage should be defined. The same outrage would (and should IMHO) take place if people want to change the definition of marriage to “one man and multiple women”.

This belief is something that has been professed for hundreds (in some cases thousands) of years. It should come as no surprise that several faiths (Judaism, Islam, Christianity and Mormons among others) oppose this. To tell people of these faiths that they are wrong, and that they must conform and change their ways to a more “acceptable” and “modern” style of thinking….you’re forcing these people to change their beliefs and conform to yours, which actually makes you no different than the people you have a problem with.

As for the rumored offering of McCain the role of Secretary of State, I think it’s not a bad idea, especially if Obama is as “bipartisan” as he was saying during the election (*once again, I’m Canadian, so my opinion doesn’t carry much weight on that matter).




You know, I really don't know what to put here. Close your eyes and thank of something funny!
Leroy
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Since: 7.2.02

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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.81
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    One dark thing on an otherwise happy election day: the passing of Proposition 8 reversing the legalization of gay marriage in California.


It's not "officially" over, as there are still enough provisional ballots being counted to defeat the proposition if a miracle happens. But it don't look good.

There's already a filing to the State Supreme Court that the proposition violates the state constitution and, therefore, is invalid. The good news is that, even if it does pass, it passed by such a slim margin that I think it is only a matter of time before gay marriage is permanently legal in California.

And just to head this off, I am NOT the one who complained to CRZ and Guru about the "Yes on 8" advertisements for non-registered users. I know better than that.

    Originally posted by El Nastio
    To tell people of these faiths that they are wrong, and that they must conform and change their ways to a more “acceptable” and “modern” style of thinking….you’re forcing these people to change their beliefs and conform to yours, which actually makes you no different than the people you have a problem with.


So what you're saying is that intolerance should be tolerated?

Please explain to me how "people of faith", which, by the way, are NOT united on this issue the way you so broadly generalize - how are they required to actually do anything? Legalizing gay marriage has ZERO impact on them. They can be as prejudiced as they want - nobody is forcing anything on them that isn't already there in every way but by legal definition.

BTW - even Steve Young's wife came out against Prop 8.

I don't believe that marriage should be just be defined as between a man and a woman without allowing for same-sex couples, and neither does almost half the state. That should count for something.

(edited by Leroy on 5.11.08 1258)


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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by El Nastio
      Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      There's apparently a rumor around Washington that McCain will be offered Secretary of State. I'd be happy to see that.

      One dark thing on an otherwise happy election day: the passing of Proposition 8 reversing the legalization of gay marriage in California. This is pure bigotry and sets the country back many years in moving toward equality. (As in: if it had passed, marriage equality might be a reality nationwide in a decade or two; now it will take much longer, I think.) The Mormon Church in particular for its efforts to impose its religious belief on others. I find this very, very upsetting.

      On a happier note, I was thrilled to see that Elizabeth Dole was spanked for falsely accusing her opponent of being an atheist. I hope we will see the day where actually *being* an atheist isn't a bar to political success, but we take what we can get.


    Something that bothers me at times is when people say things like “people forcing their beliefs on others”. It bothers me because the statement itself is kind of ironic.

    People of several faiths and religions believe that marriage is defined as one man and one woman. This is not bigotry towards homosexuals themselves, rather it is the belief of how marriage should be defined. The same outrage would (and should IMHO) take place if people want to change the definition of marriage to “one man and multiple women”.

    This belief is something that has been professed for hundreds (in some cases thousands) of years. It should come as no surprise that several faiths (Judaism, Islam, Christianity and Mormons among others) oppose this. To tell people of these faiths that they are wrong, and that they must conform and change their ways to a more “acceptable” and “modern” style of thinking….you’re forcing these people to change their beliefs and conform to yours, which actually makes you no different than the people you have a problem with.




I disagree. Religious people can still keep their own personal definition of marriage if they aren't allowed to block gays from getting legally married. It's not forcing them to change their long held belief, it's forcing the government to not discriminate.
The Goon
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Since last post: 5 days
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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.98
Here's my question: What the hell was up with CNN's holograms last night?

Is this a new technology which we'll all be using to make calls with in a few years? It frightened and intrigued me at the same time.
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    One dark thing on an otherwise happy election day: the passing of Proposition 8 reversing the legalization of gay marriage in California. This is pure bigotry and sets the country back many years in moving toward equality. (As in: if it had passed, marriage equality might be a reality nationwide in a decade or two; now it will take much longer, I think.) The Mormon Church in particular for its efforts to impose its religious belief on others. I find this very, very upsetting.


Okay, so marriage is defined as one man, one woman. I've invented a new word; constructomansexthingy. Constructomansexthingy is a different word, so it can be defined as two people of the same sex engaging in the same exact union as marriage, however since it isn't called that, it isn't messing with the definition of it.

/loophole.



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

Since last post: 52 days
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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Lexus
      Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      One dark thing on an otherwise happy election day: the passing of Proposition 8 reversing the legalization of gay marriage in California. This is pure bigotry and sets the country back many years in moving toward equality. (As in: if it had passed, marriage equality might be a reality nationwide in a decade or two; now it will take much longer, I think.) The Mormon Church in particular for its efforts to impose its religious belief on others. I find this very, very upsetting.


    Okay, so marriage is defined as one man, one woman. I've invented a new word; constructomansexthingy. Constructomansexthingy is a different word, so it can be defined as two people of the same sex engaging in the same exact union as marriage, however since it isn't called that, it isn't messing with the definition of it.

    /loophole.


Since it's not called "marriage", the nice insurance companies don't have to treat those couples the same and can screw them over.

/loophole.
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 454 days
Last activity: 414 days
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.62
    Originally posted by Lexus
      Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      One dark thing on an otherwise happy election day: the passing of Proposition 8 reversing the legalization of gay marriage in California. This is pure bigotry and sets the country back many years in moving toward equality. (As in: if it had passed, marriage equality might be a reality nationwide in a decade or two; now it will take much longer, I think.) The Mormon Church in particular for its efforts to impose its religious belief on others. I find this very, very upsetting.


    Okay, so marriage is defined as one man, one woman. I've invented a new word; constructomansexthingy. Constructomansexthingy is a different word, so it can be defined as two people of the same sex engaging in the same exact union as marriage, however since it isn't called that, it isn't messing with the definition of it.

    /loophole.

Your constructomansexthingy sounds like a "civil union" to me ;-)

As a Libertarian, I'm all for removing marriage (a religious concept) from governmental authority.
You want to call yourself married, fine, but don't expect the government to encourage it, gay or straight. As a bonus, it simplifies your taxes :-)

(edited by Mr. Boffo on 5.11.08 1550)
Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

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#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by El Nastio
    To tell people of these faiths that they are wrong, and that they must conform and change their ways to a more "acceptable" and "modern" style of thinking....you’re forcing these people to change their beliefs and conform to yours, which actually makes you no different than the people you have a problem with.
Dude, it's not mandatory. You don't have to get gay married.

    Originally posted by Jericholic53
    It was sadly telling though that when he even mentioned Obama people boo-ed, and when Obama mentioned McCain people actually applauded.
To be fair, if "winner" and "loser" were reversed, this might have played out differently.

    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    As a Libertarian, I'm all for removing marriage (a religious concept) from governmental authority.
    You want to call yourself married, fine, but don't expect the government to encourage it, gay or straight.
I'm no Libertarian, but I totally agree here. Since this will never happen, though, legalizing gay marriage is the way to go.

--K

(edited by Karlos the Jackal on 5.11.08 1456)


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Lise
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Since: 11.12.01

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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.43
I'm trying to remember what church it is that recently stopped doing civil marriages (officiating a legally binding marriage) all together... (hold on, I'll get yelled at for not quoting sources just like everyone else..) http://www.washblade.com/2005/11-25/news/localnews/wed-nix.cfm Ok, this is something that is happening in a lot of different churches of different denominations across the country.

There are two issues. They both are called Marriage, but they are two very different things.

1. Civil Marriage, which is the legal contract between two parties which gives certain rights and responsibilities. This is the thing which gives you a tax status, visitation rights, and survivorship benefits among other things. There are legal proceedings for dissolving a civil marriage (divorce). There are legal restrictions as to who can perform this legal ceremony which vary state by state, there is usually a fee and paperwork must be filed with the state. Civil Marriage has always been considered within states rights to govern.

2. Spiritual Marriage, this is the blessing of a union of two people by a church, community, and God. Under the seperation of church and state, no matter what is legally decided by each state for Civil Marriage, a church can not be forced to perform a Civil Marriage even if they are legally entitled to do so. So in the same way that a Catholic Church can't be forced to perform a marriage for a Non-Catholic, a church which does not believe in same sex marriage can not be forced to perform one. If a church blesses or condones same sex couples is entirely up to them no matter what the law decides.

Personally, I really dislike that there hasn't been a clear cut seperation of Church and State on this issue and I'd prefer that Civil Marriage was called something entirely different for everyone (we tried that whole seperate but equal thing and it didn't work), and that when you went in to file your paper work the clerk was able to officially "marry" you without any additional cost, and it was up to each couple to seek out anyone they wanted (no legal restrictions, so your best friend, clergy, or an Elvis impersonator in a squirrel costume could do it) to officiate the actual event since the event itself would no longer be legally binding. I believe that everyone should have the same rights, but there shouldn't be any kind of legal pressure on churches to do things one way or another.
Eddie Famous
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02

    Originally posted by Lise

    Personally, I really dislike that there hasn't been a clear cut seperation of Church and State on this issue and I'd prefer that Civil Marriage was called something entirely different for everyone (we tried that whole seperate but equal thing and it didn't work), and that when you went in to file your paper work the clerk was able to officially "marry" you without any additional cost, and it was up to each couple to seek out anyone they wanted (no legal restrictions, so your best friend, clergy, or an Elvis impersonator in a squirrel costume could do it) to officiate the actual event since the event itself would no longer be legally binding. I believe that everyone should have the same rights, but there shouldn't be any kind of legal pressure on churches to do things one way or another.


Since that makes far too much sense, I imagine both major parties will disown you utterly.



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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.92
I cannot overestimate how excited Toronto was to see Obama win last night....it was easily 100 times more fired up than anyone even came close to being over our own election last month. To the rest of the world, the US election was like seeing your sister finally dump the lying, cheating, dirtbag she's been inexplicably dating forever and finally take up with a nice guy.

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      There's apparently a rumor around Washington that McCain will be offered Secretary of State. I'd be happy to see that.


    I wonder if there's any validity to that, or if they're just saying that because that's what Matt Santos did on The West Wing. (Seriously, if you've never seen the last two seasons of that show - go check them out. It is this election to a tee. Well, the Alan Alda's McCain surrogate didn't pick a running mate who was legally retarded, but otherwise it's eerily spot-on.)

    (edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 5.11.08 1527)


It gets even better....apparently Obama is going to have Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff. Emanuel was one of the inspirations of TWW's Josh Lyman, the Santos chief of staff.

Screw having a Republican Sec. State or Sec. Def. That hasn't worked out too well over the last little while. The Dems wonder why the country still usually judges Republicans as stronger on defense --- gee, ya think it has something to do with the fact that so many Democratic administrations feature a GOP Sec. State as their major 'bi-partisan' cabinet member?
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.20
Finally, By God Finally...


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Its like Backlash 2000 with Obama as Rock, Bush as HHH, Palin as Steph, Vince as McCain, Rove and Cheney as The Stooges, Hillary as Linda, Earl Hebener as Binden and the American people as Steve Austin. Welcome to the future.

jwrestle
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Since: 4.4.03
From: Nitro WV

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#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.23
I just know one thing. Whether you like him or hate him, he's the best thing going today.

So I really just like the original point CRZ pointed out.

"What now? ;-)"

My thoughts are...

For everything there is a MasterCard Government Bailout. If anything we're either really going to socked in for the next four years or really going to see "change". Wait and see...just wait and see.

God BLESS AMERICA!



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The Republicans didn't screw up at all. This is what they wanted. When will all the strong Bush and Republican party supporters quit talking about them being the party of the people and for protecting our rights?
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