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25.7.14 0415
The W - Baseball - Albert Pujols, YOUR MVP! (Page 2)
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Corajudo
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Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

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#21 Posted on
I would EVERY DAY take a .265, 100-RBI guy over a .300, 80-RBI guy in the same role...

EVERY DAY?!?

What if the guy with the .265 avg. had 120 walks and 25 hrs and was the best defensive player at his respective position, while the guy with the .300 avg. had 15 walks and 10 homers and was a sieve defensively?
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21



    Originally posted by Corajudo
    I would EVERY DAY take a .265, 100-RBI guy over a .300, 80-RBI guy in the same role...

    EVERY DAY?!?

    What if the guy with the .265 avg. had 120 walks and 25 hrs and was the best defensive player at his respective position, while the guy with the .300 avg. had 15 walks and 10 homers and was a sieve defensively?

Well since he said he would take the .265 hitter every time over the .300 hitter and now you're saying that .265 hitter is even BETTER than he stated? Then yeah, I think Eddie would take him every day and twice on Sundays.



Gabba Gabba Hey!
Corajudo
Frankfurter








Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

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#23 Posted on

    Originally posted by pieman

      Originally posted by Corajudo
      I would EVERY DAY take a .265, 100-RBI guy over a .300, 80-RBI guy in the same role...

      EVERY DAY?!?

      What if the guy with the .265 avg. had 120 walks and 25 hrs and was the best defensive player at his respective position, while the guy with the .300 avg. had 15 walks and 10 homers and was a sieve defensively?

    Well since he said he would take the .265 hitter every time over the .300 hitter and now you're saying that .265 hitter is even BETTER than he stated? Then yeah, I think Eddie would take him every day and twice on Sundays.


LOL, then give the .300 guy the walks, the homers and the strong defense and give me a great big L for illiterate.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#24 Posted on

    Originally posted by skorpio17

      Originally posted by spf2119
      Okay, I'm sure there's all sorts of interesting happenings going on in that National League thingy, but the question of mild import to fans like myself is who in the hell do you put up for AL MVP? Thus far nobody is making their claim to the thing. The best years are being had for teams that aren't in contention to do anything. The top contenders are all getting very balanced efforts with no one mega-star leading the way. Hell, I'll go out on a limb and say that if his team wins the division, and he puts together another 6-7 weeks like he's done already that my vote goes to Esteban Loaiza, who single-handedly has kept the White Sox in contention for the AL Central this season.


    To follow the NL reasoning behind picking Bonds, lets look at the AL Leader in Homeruns, Walks, and OPS who is also on a first place team. Jason Giambi . Delgado is the only guy with a better OPS and he is on a bad team. The only other good choices would be Boone (the good one on Seattle) or Nomar iff the Sox make the postseason.


I'm not a big fan so much of the "who's got the best stats" approach to the MVP as trying to discern the obviously slightly more subjective "relative importance to team" idea. Which theoretically is what the Most Valuable Player is about. Giambi is having a monster year, but is there anyone who thinks the Yanks would be out of it if you plucked Giambi off their roster? Whereas to use the earlier example, the White Sox are likely 10-12 games out of first place right now if they don't have Loaiza giving them 22 quality starts in 25 appearances right now. But then I guess I just don't have the "MVP must be an everyday player" bias that some people have.



She was worth 800 miles driving to see her play - Brenda Weiler

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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#25 Posted on
Back to Bonds Vs Pujols for a moment. If Pujols played in a park where Left Field was only 307ft away, his numbers would be out of sight. I mean, right field is shorter in Pac Bell than Left Field is in MinuteMaid Park, and everybody says THAT field is like playing on a softball field. Yet, Barry playing with that short porch, nobody ever brings it up. All I am saying is, Pujols is playing GREAT on a team that is underachieving, and, keeping them in games that they should not be close in. He can play three positions, bat anywhere in the lineup and contributes all day long.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#26 Posted on
Barry Bonds (as of 8/13):
Home: 150 AB, .380 BA, 17 HR, 33 RBI
Road: 164 AB, .305 BA, 20 HR, 44 RBI

Additionally, Barry's home Hits/HR ratio is 17/57 (29.8%). His road Hits/HR ratio is 20/50 (40%). So, theoretically, if Barry got an equal number of hits at home and on the road, he'd have several more home runs on the road.

Tell me again what Pac Bell has to do with this?



Washington Huskies, 2003 Pac-10 football champs. Coming soon.
Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#27 Posted on

    Originally posted by Corajudo

      Originally posted by pieman

        Originally posted by Corajudo
        I would EVERY DAY take a .265, 100-RBI guy over a .300, 80-RBI guy in the same role...

        EVERY DAY?!?

        What if the guy with the .265 avg. had 120 walks and 25 hrs and was the best defensive player at his respective position, while the guy with the .300 avg. had 15 walks and 10 homers and was a sieve defensively?

      Well since he said he would take the .265 hitter every time over the .300 hitter and now you're saying that .265 hitter is even BETTER than he stated? Then yeah, I think Eddie would take him every day and twice on Sundays.


    LOL, then give the .300 guy the walks, the homers and the strong defense and give me a great big L for illiterate.



Raffy wasn't a stiff out in the field. Didn't he win a Gold Glove or two?



Baseball's Sad Lexicon

These are the saddest of possible words:
"Tinker to Evers to Chance."
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
Making a Giant hit into a double-
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
"Tinker to Evers to Chance."

Franklin Pierce Adams
My Blog (thecobicity.blogspot.com)
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21


Palmeiro won three Gold Gloves (1997, 1998 and 1999) with the last one being "won" while playing 28 games at the position. Gold Glove awards are pretty nearly the stupidest award there is. That being said, Palmeiro was an extremely good defensive firstbaseman in his time.

(edited by pieman on 13.8.03 1442)


Gabba Gabba Hey!
Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#29 Posted on

    Originally posted by pieman
    Palmeiro won three Gold Gloves (1997, 1998 and 1999) with the last one being "won" while playing 28 games at the position. Gold Glove awards are pretty nearly the stupidest award there is. That being said, Palmeiro was an extremely good defensive firstbaseman in his time.

    (edited by pieman on 13.8.03 1442)



Did the voters or whoever fall asleep at the wheel? How do you win an award for a position when you play less than a quarter of the teams games at a position?



Baseball's Sad Lexicon

These are the saddest of possible words:
"Tinker to Evers to Chance."
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
Making a Giant hit into a double-
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
"Tinker to Evers to Chance."

Franklin Pierce Adams
My Blog (thecobicity.blogspot.com)
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 244 days
Last activity: 237 days
#30 Posted on


    Originally posted by Corajudo
    LOL, then give the .300 guy the walks, the homers and the strong defense and give me a great big L for illiterate.


LOL Dingbat (kidding, of course)

For me, it will always be production. If someone is better at getting on base than driving in runs, they wouldn't be in the same role. Defense at first base is a difference of one or two chances in a thousand. I like first basemen to be RBI guys. Bill Buckner once drove in 100 without hitting 20 HR for the Cubs. Grace was the king of the short popup to left field with a man on third.



The ghost of a steam train - echoes down my track
It's at the moment bound for nowhere -
just going round and round
Playground kids and creaking swings -
lost laughter in the breeze
I could go on for hours and I probably will -
but I'd sooner put some joy back
In this town called malice
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#31 Posted on

    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    Barry Bonds (as of 8/13):
    Home: 150 AB, .380 BA, 17 HR, 33 RBI
    Road: 164 AB, .305 BA, 20 HR, 44 RBI

    Additionally, Barry's home Hits/HR ratio is 17/57 (29.8%). His road Hits/HR ratio is 20/50 (40%). So, theoretically, if Barry got an equal number of hits at home and on the road, he'd have several more home runs on the road.

    Tell me again what Pac Bell has to do with this?



Both HR ratios are about the same, one HR every 8 AB. He has come up to bat less at home, thus has had less opportunity to hit the homers. Plus, if you have Barry Bonds, wih a fence 300 feet away, do you pitch to him? I would think he has more walks at home.
darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 3606 days
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#32 Posted on
Short porch yes, but uh, there's a friggin' WALL there. Plus the usual fun winds. I guess it's "so easy" to hit it into the water only Bonds, Gonzo, Gracie, and Feliz have done it...

Near-Dimaggio RBIs is pretty insane though, but anyway, if Albert is really this good, he's going to have plenty of MVPs eventually. He's actually playing defense and running this year as well, although I still think he's the 2nd coming of Manny Ramirez. And giving Mr. Genius credit for telling him to hit would be saying he told Rickey Henderson maybe he should try stealing a base or Eck to throw strikes...

(edited by darkdragoon on 13.8.03 2240)
Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#33 Posted on
It's insanely short down the line, but it gets deep in a hurry. It is a true feat of strength to get one out between left center and right center.



Baseball's Sad Lexicon

These are the saddest of possible words:
"Tinker to Evers to Chance."
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
Making a Giant hit into a double-
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
"Tinker to Evers to Chance."

Franklin Pierce Adams
My Blog (thecobicity.blogspot.com)
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 3 days
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Y!:
#34 Posted on
    Originally posted by StaggerLee

      Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Barry Bonds (as of 8/13):
      Home: 150 AB, .380 BA, 17 HR, 33 RBI
      Road: 164 AB, .305 BA, 20 HR, 44 RBI

      Additionally, Barry's home Hits/HR ratio is 17/57 (29.8%). His road Hits/HR ratio is 20/50 (40%). So, theoretically, if Barry got an equal number of hits at home and on the road, he'd have several more home runs on the road.

      Tell me again what Pac Bell has to do with this?



    Both HR ratios are about the same, one HR every 8 AB. He has come up to bat less at home, thus has had less opportunity to hit the homers. Plus, if you have Barry Bonds, wih a fence 300 feet away, do you pitch to him? I would think he has more walks at home.



You missed my point. If the park played a huge role in how many home runs Bonds hit, isn't reasonable to assume that he would have a much higher percentage of home runs vs. hits at home as opposed to on the road? Let's look at another guy:

Home: 224 AB, .402, 18 HR, 61 RBI, 90 hits
Road: 223 AB, .305, 7 HR, 36 RBI, 68 hits

THIS guy has an 18/90 hits/HR ratio at home (20%) and a 7/68 (10.3%) ratio on the road. THAT is a ballpark affecting a guy's home run hitting performance. BONDS' NUMBERS ARE COMPLETELY OPPOSITE, SO TELL ME HOW YOU CAN CONTINUE TO SAY THE BALLPARK IS WHY HE HITS SO MANY HOME RUNS.

(The guy is Todd Helton, btw. Stupid Coors Field.)

(edited by JayJayDean on 14.8.03 0742)

Washington Huskies, 2003 Pac-10 football champs. Coming soon.
Doc_whiskey
Frankfurter








Since: 6.8.02
From: St. Louis

Since last post: 308 days
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#35 Posted on
I think if Pujols gets the triple crown or the Cardinals make the playoffs, then Pujols will win. If one of those two do not happen, then Bonds probably will. Why the Giants are so far in front, its not just Bonds. There pitching staff. 4th best ERA, 4th most shutouts, 5th fewest hits allowed, 4th fewest runs allowed, 6th most saves. In other words, there pitching staff (as a whole) has a lot to do with their success as well.



Brazen Snatch
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#36 Posted on
More on the HR-friendliness of Pac Bell...

"We remind you that Bonds plays in the hardest ballpark in baseball for a left-handed hitter (besides himself, that is) to hit a home run." - Jayson Stark, espn.com

Bonds the all-time HR king? Don't count on it is the entire article. I knew Bonds didn't have a gimme ballpark to hit home runs in but I had no idea that you could legitimately say it's he hardest park for a lefty hit a home run.

(Not that Stark is the end all, but he's got some pretty decent credibility, at least.)


(edited by JayJayDean on 16.8.03 1011)


Washington Huskies, 2003 Pac-10 football champs. Coming soon.
darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

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#37 Posted on
Yeah, the giants do tons more damage on the road powerwise...although the wall can have the same "turn into a double etc." effect like the Monsta...

AL Mvp: Giambi has the numbers, Loaiza and Mags have pretty much kept Chicago going, Ichiro is playing well...

Cy Young? Loaiza, Pettite, halladay, Mulder (see if this injury is serious.) Probably a few token votes for Clemens and the like.

Comeback? Meche and LIMA TIME~!

NL Cy Young--None of the 'usuals' are really up to form, probably Ortiz or maybe Smoltz or Gagne.

Joseph Ryder
Head cheese








Since: 19.3.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#38 Posted on

    Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
    I think if Pujols gets the triple crown or the Cardinals make the playoffs, then Pujols will win. If one of those two do not happen, then Bonds probably will. Why the Giants are so far in front, its not just Bonds. There pitching staff. 4th best ERA, 4th most shutouts, 5th fewest hits allowed, 4th fewest runs allowed, 6th most saves. In other words, there pitching staff (as a whole) has a lot to do with their success as well.


Bonds proved you wrong Tuesday and Thursday night. He is why they win. And I think the "Pujols for MVP" card, while cute, can now REST IN PEACE(!) Like how the Undertaker used to say! That was cool!!1
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