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The W - Current Events & Politics - Al Franken Wins!
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CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.78
The drama is finally over. Norm Coleman is a sore loser.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/​id/​31667236/​ns/​politics-​capitol_​hill/​


Notice I did not use Foxnews as my source!

(edited by CajunMan on 30.6.09 1357)
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CRZ
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    The drama is finally over.
No, not yet. The governor still can stall, and most likely will given his previous comments ("I'll sign the certificate if the Court demands that I must sign it.")
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    Norm Coleman is a sore loser.
Norm Coleman had no comment, according to the story, so you're making quite a leap there.
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    Notice I did not use Foxnews as my source!
And yet... it didn't make your opinions any less incorrect! Well played.



spf
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Since: 2.1.02
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Norm Coleman had no comment, according to the story, so you're making quite a leap there.

Well he is the same guy who on election night or the day after told Al Franken, at the time down by 232 votes, that he should ask the state not to do the mandated recount so that "the healing process could begin." Perhaps sore loser might not be in order, but really, it is hard not to at least label him as quite the hypocrite.

I do agree though this is far from over. MNSC did not explicitly order Pawlenty to sign, and he has given himself a lot of wiggle room. Question is will the Senate use this decision as cover to just seat Franken, and perhaps get a few moderate GOP'ers to agree with this in order to keep it from getting filibustered?





2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.79
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by CajunMan
      The drama is finally over.
    No, not yet. The governor still can stall, and most likely will given his previous comments ("I'll sign the certificate if the Court demands that I must sign it.")
      Originally posted by CajunMan
      Norm Coleman is a sore loser.
    Norm Coleman had no comment, according to the story, so you're making quite a leap there.
      Originally posted by CajunMan
      Notice I did not use Foxnews as my source!
    And yet... it didn't make your opinions any less incorrect! Well played.



How am I incorrect? According to the Times it will be official, the Governor will certify it and Coleman will speak later today.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/​2009/​06/​30/​court-​rules-​franken-​has-​won-​senate-​seat/​?​hp

Coleman is a sore loser for dragging this out to the summer when all recounted votes still favored Franken.

Sounds like you are accepting this very well.

(edited by CajunMan on 30.6.09 1450)
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    How am I incorrect? According to the Times it will be official, the Governor will certify it and Coleman will speak later today.


    Originally posted by The Times
    Some legal experts already are pointing out that the Minnesota Supreme Court did not issue a specific directive ordering Governor Pawlenty to sign the certificate. And there is, according to legal experts, a rehearing period of 10 days, under the Minnesota judges’ ruling.




It is the policy of the documentary crew to remain true observers and not interfere with its subjects.

If you wanna reach the Co-op, boy, you gotta get by me.
CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.79
    Originally posted by hansen9j
      Originally posted by CajunMan
      How am I incorrect? According to the Times it will be official, the Governor will certify it and Coleman will speak later today.


      Originally posted by The Times
      Some legal experts already are pointing out that the Minnesota Supreme Court did not issue a specific directive ordering Governor Pawlenty to sign the certificate. And there is, according to legal experts, a rehearing period of 10 days, under the Minnesota judges’ ruling.



The legal experts on Foxnews I bet. Besides you really believe the Supreme Court is going to listen to this B.S. after it has been shot down over and over. Just give it up and move on.

(edited by CajunMan on 30.6.09 1522)

(deleted by CRZ on 30.6.09 1529)

(resurrected by CRZ on 30.6.09 1530)


Thanks CRZ! Congrats on your new Senator!

(edited by CajunMan on 30.6.09 2357)
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
Click Here (news.yahoo.com)

The AP is saying Coleman is conceding.


    "The Supreme Court has made its decision and I will abide by the results," Coleman told reporters outside his St. Paul home.


(edited by Zeruel on 30.6.09 1621)


-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

"I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by the North Koreans right here in the Oval Office."
George W. Bush - June 26, 2008, during a Rose Garden news briefing.
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
    Originally posted by Zeruel
    Click Here (news.yahoo.com)

    The AP is saying Coleman is conceding.


      "The Supreme Court has made its decision and I will abide by the results," Coleman told reporters outside his St. Paul home.


    (edited by Zeruel on 30.6.09 1621)
Yep.

http://www.startribune.com/​politics/​national/​senate/​49520987.html

    Court rules for Franken; Coleman won't appeal

    Republican Norm Coleman ended his bruising eight-month court fight over Minnesota's U.S. Senate seat this afternoon, conceding to Democrat Al Franken after the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled in Franken's favor.

    By PAT DOYLE, Star Tribune
    Last update: June 30, 2009 - 3:23 PM


    Republican Norm Coleman ended his bruising eight-month court fight over Minnesota's U.S. Senate seat this afternoon, conceding to Democrat Al Franken after the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled in Franken's favor.

    [MORE]


EDIT: I originally deleted CajunMan's third post because it made no sense. Then I decided I should leave it up for all to read because it made no sense.



(edited by CRZ on 30.6.09 1533)


spf
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Since: 2.1.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
I'm surprised Coleman is conceding. You would figure it isn't like he has anything else to do, and the RSCC and the right-wing fundraising base could surely have funded even more of a protracted legal battle.

I mean, I'm glad he finally said "enough" but I really don't know the motivation behind it. Oh well, MN gets a 2nd senator finally.



2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
The Thrill
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Since: 16.4.02
From: Green Bay, WI

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
Godspeed, men of the 2nd Bn, 127th Infantry, 32d "Red Arrow" Brigade, Wisconsin Army National Guard! Victory in Iraq!

Does this give the Dems the filibuster-proof 60-seat majority they need?

Anyhoo, I hope this motivational poster gets used at any celebrations.

And has Senator Al spoken to us via his uplink yet?










NWAWisconsin.com...Live, Local Pro Wrestling!

redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
    Originally posted by spf
    I'm surprised Coleman is conceding. You would figure it isn't like he has anything else to do, and the RSCC and the right-wing fundraising base could surely have funded even more of a protracted legal battle.

    I mean, I'm glad he finally said "enough" but I really don't know the motivation behind it. Oh well, MN gets a 2nd senator finally.






So Norm has lost to a wrestler (Jesse) and an unfunny comedian (Al). Perhaps it is time for him to retire.
TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.18
    Originally posted by The Thrill
    Does this give the Dems the filibuster-proof 60-seat majority they need?


Yes. There are 57 elected Democrats, plus Joe Lieberman, Bernie Sanders and Arlen Specter, all of whom caucus with the Democrats. As members of the Democrat caucus, these three are obligated to vote with the Democrats on all procedural matters, including the cloture vote that would prevent a filibuster.

I have very high expectations for Senator Al Franken. I think he is a very smart man and I expect him to call bullshit when he sees it. I realize he's not going to go to Washington and challenge Barack Obama to a cage match or anything, but if he gets to the Senate and becomes another Democrat mouthpiece, towing the party line at the expense of his own credibility, I will be very, very disappointed.

He's a Democrat and I'm not, so he obviously (?) thinks more highly of the party than I do, but the Democrats now have a level of power in Washington not seen in many, many years*. That means it's more important than ever that everything they do be watched very carefully.

* - Of course, the Democrat senators becoming de facto Republicans while Bush was in the White House means this isn't true in anything but a technical sense.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 1.7.09 1146)
TheOldMan
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Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.99
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Yes. There are 57 elected Democrats, plus Joe Lieberman, Bernie Sanders and Arlen Specter, all of whom caucus with the Democrats. As members of the Democrat caucus, these three are obligated to vote with the Democrats on all procedural matters, including the cloture vote that would prevent a filibuster.


Whoops - bit of an overstatement there, Bucs.

As independents caucusing with the Dems, Lieberman and Sanders are expected to vote with the caucus on matters of organization, but cloture votes are up to each Senator's conscience.

Hence the worrying over Nelson, Hagen, Lincoln, Landrieu, Bayh... Although the trick is can Harry Reid hold them to vote for cloture (to end debate and allow a vote on the bill) even if some of them may vote against the bill in the end. It's getting 60 votes for cloture that is key, even if the bill may eventually pass by 54-46 or so.



TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.18
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Yes. There are 57 elected Democrats, plus Joe Lieberman, Bernie Sanders and Arlen Specter, all of whom caucus with the Democrats. As members of the Democrat caucus, these three are obligated to vote with the Democrats on all procedural matters, including the cloture vote that would prevent a filibuster.


    Whoops - bit of an overstatement there, Bucs.

    As independents caucusing with the Dems, Lieberman and Sanders are expected to vote with the caucus on matters of organization, but cloture votes are up to each Senator's conscience.


Do you have a link to support that? By joining the caucus, Lieberman, Sanders and Specter (and every elected Democrat) have promised to vote with the Democrats on all procedural matters - and "procedural matters" is definitely the phrase I've read, not "organizational matters" - but are free to vote as they wish on policy votes. This is why it's worthwhile for the Democrats to even have Joe Lieberman as a member of the caucus. I know I've read this, but can't find a link right now. This Google search provides several sites or whatnot that state this in pretty much the same way I have, I just don't have time at this moment to read through them.

So in essence, you are saying cloture is a policy vote and not a procedural one, and that doesn't make much sense to me. But it is nothing more than an assumption on my part, based on what I stated in the previous paragraph. As far as I can remember, I've never read something that explicitly said cloture votes are included in this. So if you have a source that says Lieberman is not under obligation to vote with the Dems on cloture votes, you win.

I mean, of course Lieberman and any others can vote however they want, but on certain matters going against the Democrats would mean risking being booted from the caucus and losing the committee positions that come with it.
Peter The Hegemon
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Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.03
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan

    So in essence, you are saying cloture is a policy vote and not a procedural one, and that doesn't make much sense to me. But it is nothing more than an assumption on my part, based on what I stated in the previous paragraph. As far as I can remember, I've never read something that explicitly said cloture votes are included in this. So if you have a source that says Lieberman is not under obligation to vote with the Dems on cloture votes, you win.


"Again, the thing to keep in mind about filibusters and cloture votes is that it's not how many seats your caucus occupies, it's how many votes you can muster. To paraphrase a recent popular refrain, seats don't vote....

In looking over the cloture votes in the 110th Congress, it quickly becomes obvious that aisle-crossing votes aren't even something you can easily quantify, because a significant number of them don't break down along anything approaching strict partisan lines. Sometimes the ideological lines are clear, but partisan lines much less so. A typical cloture vote may well see 10-15 Democrats, or even nearly half the caucus on one side, with the rest on the other. Republicans, too, split their conference with fair frequency. In fact, of the 110 cloture votes in the last Congress, only three saw no crossover voting whatsoever."

http://www.congressmatters.com/story/2008/11/14/115616/35
TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.18
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan

      So in essence, you are saying cloture is a policy vote and not a procedural one, and that doesn't make much sense to me. But it is nothing more than an assumption on my part, based on what I stated in the previous paragraph. As far as I can remember, I've never read something that explicitly said cloture votes are included in this. So if you have a source that says Lieberman is not under obligation to vote with the Dems on cloture votes, you win.


    "Again, the thing to keep in mind about filibusters and cloture votes is that it's not how many seats your caucus occupies, it's how many votes you can muster. To paraphrase a recent popular refrain, seats don't vote....

    In looking over the cloture votes in the 110th Congress, it quickly becomes obvious that aisle-crossing votes aren't even something you can easily quantify, because a significant number of them don't break down along anything approaching strict partisan lines. Sometimes the ideological lines are clear, but partisan lines much less so. A typical cloture vote may well see 10-15 Democrats, or even nearly half the caucus on one side, with the rest on the other. Republicans, too, split their conference with fair frequency. In fact, of the 110 cloture votes in the last Congress, only three saw no crossover voting whatsoever."

    http://www.congressmatters.com/​story/​2008/​11/​14/​115616/​35


OK then!

So I guess the answer to the original question is actually, "yes, if all members of the caucus vote together."

Sorry.
The Thrill
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Since: 16.4.02
From: Green Bay, WI

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
Godspeed, men of the 2nd Bn, 127th Infantry, 32d "Red Arrow" Brigade, Wisconsin Army National Guard! Victory in Iraq!

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    I have very high expectations for Senator Al Franken. I think he is a very smart man and I expect him to call bullshit when he sees it. I realize he's not going to go to Washington and challenge Barack Obama to a cage match or anything, but if he gets to the Senate and becomes another Democrat mouthpiece, towing the party line at the expense of his own credibility, I will be very, very disappointed.


Those were exactly the hopes we had in Wisconsin for Russ Feingold when he beat Sen. Bob Kasten (R) back in '92...and in my view, he went the mouthpiece route.

If Franken does the same, it will indeed be disappointing for my neighbors on the other side of the Missisippi River.










NWAWisconsin.com...Live, Local Pro Wrestling!

DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.42
1. Coleman will run for governor.

2. As a Dem, I don't think its correct to call him a sore loser. Over 6 million votes and you lose by 300 or so.

3. I doubt the senate is fillibuster proof on every issue. The Dems aren't as monolithic as many think.



Perception is reality
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    1. Coleman will run for governor.

I can't imagine him having much of a future at this point. He's lost to Jesse "The Body" and Stuart Smalley. He waged a protracted fight that has cost the current GOP governor dearly in approval ratings. I'm sure the MN folks here can speak more to it, but I can't imagine him being rehabilitated enough to run for Gov. successfully in less than 18 months.


    2. As a Dem, I don't think its correct to call him a sore loser. Over 6 million votes and you lose by 300 or so.

I wouldn't have ever said that if he hadn't been out there the day after the election saying that "the healing needs to begin" and calling on Franken to not take the recount, then going on for half a year when it was obvious he had no realistic chance of winning the seat. If he had just kept his mouth shut or said "I respect the process and the process demands a recount" I think people would not have thought of him as badly.


    3. I doubt the senate is fillibuster proof on every issue. The Dems aren't as monolithic as many think.

This is totally true. This is the party who invented the circular firing line.



2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
    Originally posted by spf
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      1. Coleman will run for governor.

    I can't imagine him having much of a future at this point. He's lost to Jesse "The Body" and Stuart Smalley. He waged a protracted fight that has cost the current GOP governor dearly in approval ratings. I'm sure the MN folks here can speak more to it, but I can't imagine him being rehabilitated enough to run for Gov. successfully in less than 18 months.







And realistically, the main reason he won the Senate seat in the first place was Wellstone dying in the plane crash 2 weeks before the general election, and the Democrats disenchanting the voters by turning the memorial service into a political event.
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