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The W - Football - African American NFL coaches.
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Aphrodites Reflection
Chipolata








Since: 18.6.02
From: Atlanta GA

Since last post: 4147 days
Last activity: 4144 days
#1 Posted on
http://msn.espn.go.com/nfl/news/2002/0930/1439447.html

The above is a link to an article on ESPN.com concerning charges leveled against the NFL by attorney Johnnie Cochran (yes, that guy).

Mr. Cochran makes both some good points and some outlandish claims about the hiring of African American coaches in the NFL. I first want to say that I certainly think that more african americans deserve a shot at coaching, and there are some great former players and assistant coaches out there that don't seem to be getting the same chances as some of the same tired old white men.

However, while I am supportive of more opportunities, the figures that are mentioned in the article are very misleading. There have only been 5 black head coaches in the NFL since 1986. I can't say that I know the number of white head coaches during the same time period, but I will say that a good estimate would be that each of the 25 teams went through an average of 3 or 4 coaches during those years, and assume that the number is roughly 75 white coaches.

Therefore, because the number of blacks is so small, the statistics suggested in the article are not very significant. The black coaches certainly did fairly well, but since there were so few, the numbers are skewed. For the white coaches, because there are so many, the law of averages takes hold and the statistics are therefore obviously lower.

I think it would be great if the NFL took some initiative and got more blacks involved with coaching in general and head coaching in particular. But a lawsuit is not the way to do it.
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Jubuki
Kolbasz








Since: 16.7.02

Since last post: 4302 days
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#2 Posted on
I wonder what happened to spending time in our court systems with matters that had some true impact on people's lives. So what if more black guys don't get NFL head coaching jobs? It's the fricking NFL, a pile of overpaid entertainers - there are tens of thousands of more worthy matters to tackle, if one has the balls to help those in need of it. Good to see Cochran is still lacking in that respect.



Chris
The AIR RAID CRASH
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1179 days
Last activity: 976 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Besides, teams should really be more concerned with hiring the right man for the job rather than an individual of any particular color. There would be nothing worse than putting an unqualified candidate in a situation they should not be in and basically setting them up to fail...

This still doesn't explain why Marvin Lewis is not an NFL coach, but Mike Tice is.
bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

Since last post: 709 days
Last activity: 1 day
#4 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis
    This still doesn't explain why Marvin Lewis is not an NFL coach, but Mike Tice is.


In one word, racism. Of course, by that I mean Marvin Lewis and his agents's cries of racism. As I understand the story, when Marvin Lewis interviewed for the Buffalo job, he realized that the team was going to suck for a while and that he had a cushier position with the Ravens so he made it perfectly clear that he was not interested in the Buffalo job. It should also be noted that Buffalo was the only team to wait until after the playoffs were over to name a new head coach because they actually wanted Marvin Lewis as their head coach. When Buffalo announced the hiring of their new coach, the first thing out of Marvin Lewis' agents mouth was a scream that Buffalo was racist because they didn't hire a black candidate who said he wasn't interested in the job. While Lewis later kind of sort of maybe thought there was a slim chance that his agent might have possibly, but probably really didn't, overstated things, he really soured any chance he had of being a head coach in the near future. I've heard it said that by people who allegedly know what they are talking about that Lewis will only get a head coaching job after Lovie Smith gets one.

Tim



"Verhoeven's _Starship Troopers_: Based on the back cover of the book by Robert Heinlein."
evilwaldo
Lap cheong








Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3318 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Johnnie Cochran is an ass.

I guess the celebrity endorsements are drying up and he has to actually work again.





These commercials are superfine because they pay for the production costs of putting CHRIS MOTHERFUCKING BENOIT on my GODDAMN TV SCREEN! I will GO GREYHOUND! I am thinking OUTSIDE THE BUN! Dean Rasmussen 8/1/2002 Smackdown Workrate Report
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 4 days
#6 Posted on
It just seems to me strange that while people show off the statistics for the lack of black coaches and cry foul, no one shows off the statistics of players, which are also skewed, and cry foul. In fact, if they do show the player's stats, it's to support the argument that the lack of black coaches is clearly racist (as if playing and coaching is the same thing).

Look, if statistics is good enough for one argument, it's good for them all, so quite clearly the NFL has a racist policy toward white players. Just look at the numbers, and it will become obvious. You can't tell me that whites make up as big of part of the population as they do, but yet that only a small percentage are good at football. It just doesn't make sense statistically.

See, it's easy to do, but we know that it doesn't hold water. I would rather here specific arguments about specific people (who should have been hired, who shouldn't have been hired) to bring up specific issues of racism. I just don't like playing numbers games, because statistics won't hit exact in every category. Many different ranges will add together to come up with an AVERAGE, which is different than an EXACT COUNT in every category. I mean, how many people do you know actually have 2.3 children?
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1179 days
Last activity: 976 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by evilwaldo
    Johnnie Cochran is an ass.


Understatement of the year. I'd also like to throw Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson under this bus. I'll never forget when Jesse Jackson picketed the '93 All Star Game in Baltimore while admitting that the Orioles had great minority hiring practices. Twit...

Nevertheless, Marvin Lewis is still a better coach than Mike Tice and Marty Morningwheg. He should get his opportunity this year(with the rest of the free world) when there are probably six-eight vacancies and the Redskins not sniffing playoffs this year...
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
i think this sums it up:
"Therefore, because the number of blacks is so small, the statistics suggested in the article are not very significant."

ya, there aren't enough black coaches, and more whites get jobs because there are just more white coaches.

this reminds me of some guy, can't remember his name, who got in trouble because he said that Blacks are responsible for almost all of the crime in DC. it's a true fact, because 91% of DC was black at the time, and about 70% of all crimes were commited by blacks. he was accused of being a racist for his claims.

if 90% of the coaches are white, then therefore they will get most of the jobs.

I'm still waiting for an Asian coach. there are what? 6 asian players if you include anyone from the Pacific Islands (samoa)? Dat Nguyen and Junior Seau are the only ones that spring to mind.



Currently suffering from Pink Eye. First, chicken pox at 20, now pink eye. What's next, the mumps?
That's just my 2.461 Yen.
R-D-Z
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 1936 days
Last activity: 1589 days
#9 Posted on
I read in Sports Illustrated that one of the biggest reasons that all professional sports don't hire blacks is because they don't want to deal with the backlash when they fire them. Of course no one really bitched when Lewis got canned so I don't think that would happen but would the owners want to take the risk?
Plus as someone else said there has been somewhere around 80 head coaches in the last decade. But how many different coaches were there? Maybe 50 at most. A lot of coaches quit or get fired after 3 seasons then go to another team.
I want to see the best person in a job. I don't personnaly care if they are black, white, gay, female, or etc. Just that they can do the job better than anyone else.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 361 days
Last activity: 322 days
#10 Posted on
    Originally posted by ges7184
    Many different ranges will add together to come up with an AVERAGE, which is different than an EXACT COUNT in every category. I mean, how many people do you know actually have 2.3 children?

My parents had 2.3 kids. And sure, my .3 of a brother got made fun of alot, but at least he got to drive the other .5 of a car that we had (average household had 1.5 cars at the time).

BTW, there have been 99 head coaches (not counting 5 interim coaches) since 1986.

(edited by Mr. Boffo on 2.10.02 0038)

chazerizer
Italian








Since: 11.7.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4300 days
Last activity: 757 days
AIM:  
#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by ges7184
    It just seems to me strange that while people show off the statistics for the lack of black coaches and cry foul, no one shows off the statistics of players, which are also skewed, and cry foul. In fact, if they do show the player's stats, it's to support the argument that the lack of black coaches is clearly racist (as if playing and coaching is the same thing).

    Look, if statistics is good enough for one argument, it's good for them all, so quite clearly the NFL has a racist policy toward white players. Just look at the numbers, and it will become obvious. You can't tell me that whites make up as big of part of the population as they do, but yet that only a small percentage are good at football. It just doesn't make sense statistically.



[sarcasm]

You see, theres a problem with your argument. When you say there aren't enough Black/Hispanic/Women/any minority in a job, you're pointing out discrimination. When you say there aren't enough Whites/men in a job, you're being a racist. You just can't be racist against whit epeople. Its not possible.

[/sarcasm]

Different comment: Don't you think its sad that teams are averaging 3 head coaches over a span of 16 years? Talk about no job security. I know the Steelers haven't had to many different head coaches (2 since 1968), but whose had the most recently? Just curious.



Marty doesn't need surgery. This is a great day. I almost feel like I can say, I don't care that the Steelers lost. Again.

Steelers 0-2
Penguins 0-0-0-0
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
Skins spring to mind in recent memory
25 head coaches in 70 years
4 head coaches in the last 3 years

Years Coach
1932-1932 Lud Wray
1933-1934 William (Lone Star) Dietz
1935-1935 Eddie Casey
1936-1942 Ray Flaherty
1943-1943 Arthur (Dutch) Bergman

1944-1945 Dudley DeGroot
1946-1948 Glen (Turk) Edwards
1949-1949 John Whelchel *Released after seven games in 1949
1949-1951 Herman Ball **Released after three games in 1951
1951-1951 Dick Todd

1952-1953 Earl (Curly) Lambeau
1954-1958 Joe Kuharich
1959-1960 Mike Nixon
1961-1965 Bill McPeak

1959-1964 helmet

1966-1968 Otto Graham

1965-1969 helmet, and 2002 home games

1969-1969 Vince Lombardi ***Died in off-season fo cancer

1970-1971 special Lombardi helmet, sadly he didn't live long enough to see it in play...

1970-1970 Bill Austin
1971-1977 George Allen ****Over the hill gang.
1978-1980 Jack Pardee
1981-1992 Joe Gibbs *****XVII, XXII and XXVI super bowl champs

1993-1993 Richie Pettibone
1994-2000 Norv Turner ******Fired after thirteen games in 2000
2000-2000 Terry Robiskie
2001-2001 Marty Schottenheimer
2002-present Steve Spurrier

averge coach term: 70/25 2.8 years
Longest: 12 years, Joe Gibbs 1981-1992
Shortest: Terry Robiskie, 3 games in 2000; Herman Ball 3 games in 1951



(edited by rikidozan on 3.10.02 1424)

(edited by rikidozan on 3.10.02 1433)

Raw rhymed with glory. Smackdown made me all shades of happy. WWE is getting good again. The crops?
Jeezum Spice! Someone stole my crops. What in the ham fat is going on. That's just poo-doo!
That's just my 2.458 Yen.
R-D-Z
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1179 days
Last activity: 976 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
And don't forget Pepper Rodgers was coach of the Skins for an hour or two before somebody talked Billionaire Dan out of that faux pas.

(edited by Grimis on 3.10.02 1430)
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