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The W - Football - ACC to add 3 schools? (Page 2)
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StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#21 Posted on

    Originally posted by Ffej
    12 may be the the magic number but if those three teams go to the ACC they have already decided to break it up into two 5 team divisions and have a championship game.

Maybe I'm just missing something here, but what do you propose the other 2 teams do?

- StingArmy
Ffej
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

Since last post: 2269 days
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Y!:
#22 Posted on

    Originally posted by StingArmy

      Originally posted by Ffej
      12 may be the the magic number but if those three teams go to the ACC they have already decided to break it up into two 5 team divisions and have a championship game.

    Maybe I'm just missing something here, but what do you propose the other 2 teams do?

    - StingArmy



Maybe they should come and teach me math :-)



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Quezzy
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Since: 6.1.02
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#23 Posted on
I still don't see what the big deal about North Carolina schools in basketball are. You can put them in the same division and they will still play twice a year in basketball and once a year in football. Even if they only play once a year in basketball, big deal, it will make the game more important. And actually, I don't mind the fact that in the SEC some East teams only play some West teams twice in eight years, it's makes those games more special.

Bottom line is the ACC is getting the best football program over the past 3 years and the defending champion in basketball. So i don't see what the problem is. If you don't want Miami and Syracuse, i'll glady trade them for Vandy and South Carolina.

Also if Miami and FSU played every year in ACC play in football then why not play Florida in the non-conference spot that is opened because of it. Then the ACC would be a part of Miami-Florida, Miami-FSU, and FSU-Florida ever year. You're talking some big money then.



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TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

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#24 Posted on

    Originally posted by Battlezone
    The NCAA says that to have a conference title game, you have to have 12 teams in your conference...


Ah, whoops. Oh well, thought something divisible by two might make sense... but then this is the NCAA we're talking about. Shame.







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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Quezzy
    still don't see what the big deal about North Carolina schools in basketball are....Even if they only play once a year in basketball, big deal

Um, the problem is that UNC-Duke is like the Second Coming twice a year. Remember, people camp out for a week to get the student tickets to these games. It's not life or death for Duke and UNC fans; it's several times more important than that.



These Democrats up in Texas they may not be patriots, but they did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.-Rep. Tom DeLay on the "fugitive" Texas Democrats
ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 118 days
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#26 Posted on
Why would this prevent them from playing twice a year?
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 21 days
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#27 Posted on

    Originally posted by ges7184
    Why would this prevent them from playing twice a year?

I think the assumption is that in the new 12-team ACC, everyone would play everyone else in the conference once. I guess if they do the East/West or North/South thing and have everyone in their side of the conference play everyone else twice, it could work out. Who knows, though..

- StingArmy
The Red Sox Fan
Cotechino








Since: 31.3.03
From: Philly Burbs

Since last post: 1861 days
Last activity: 3 days
#28 Posted on
First off, North Carolina and Duke basketball along with all it entails can blow me. I'm so sick of hearing about the so-called awesome tradition of these two schools and Dean Smith and Coach K and all of that blather. Dick Vitale perpetuates this stereotype that these two schools are (along with Bob Knight) the trinity of College Basketball.

College Football, and NCAA sports in general, are all about the MONEY. North Carolina and Duke have literally no chance most years to be competitive in football, and given NC's recent basketball showings, they should keep their friggin mouths shut about this. This move would make the ACC a top-flight conference in the country and make all of their institutions a boatload of money. Boston College is very lucky to be included in this group being asked to move, and the scuttlebutt I hear is that they cannot wait to start being able to legit recruit in Fla.

One more quick thing. Generally, with twelve team conferences for basketball, you play each team in your own division twice (home-and-home) and the teams in the other division once on a rotating home-away sched.

Mike Tranghese needs to face facts. Nothing in sports, especially in the NCAA, is forever. There's too much money to be made for these schools. Had the Big East ditched Temple when they had the chance and made a big play for Penn State, they might not be facing this nightmare now.



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Battlezone
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#29 Posted on
Well, here's a pretty interesting article from Artie Gigantino (foxsports.lycos.com) in regards to the fallout from the ACC's expansion.

To summarize, he says the Big-10 should snap up Pitt, which gives Penn State a natural rivalry, the Pac-10 should grab BYU and Utah, and the Big East, well, the Big East should just go away. This would give the BCS five automatic bids and three at large.

The most interesting part of this article? No, this does not spell the beginning of a playoff system, in fact quite the opposite. If the five BCS conferences (assuming the Big East dissolves, etc.) all have conference championship games, that will be viewed as a mini playoff. It will pacify the playoff backers and provide the fans with extra action in their own geographical region. The winners then advance to the BCS games, the losers go to non-BCS bowls, and everyone is happy and richer.

Well? Would this pacify the folks clamoring for a playoff? You'd have 5 conference championship games, with likely the best 10 teams in the country, playing to get into 5 BCS spots. This also gives the BYUs and Marshalls a shot at playing in the grownup bowls, as opposed to annually sitting at the kiddie table come bowl season. I've never been a playoff guy, but I would think this would be a workable solution...



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Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
yeah, it does give a tiny sorta playoff, i still love the excitement of the b-ball playoffs, and i wish football could recreate that in some way, even if it was 5 conf champs (who probably played a playoff to get there) and add 3 non-bcs champs who finished higest in the bcs, and have a 8 team play off at the 4 bowl locations

location 1 would only have a 1st round game
location 2 would have a 1st round and semi
location 3 would have a 1st round and semi
location 4 would have a 1st round and the final game

then location 4 would go to the top of the pile, and location 3 would move down and so on...

won't happen, but "No, this does not spell the beginning of a playoff system, in fact quite the opposite. If the five BCS conferences (assuming the Big East dissolves, etc.) all have conference championship games, that will be viewed as a mini playoff"

and that is better than nothing...

(edited by rikidozan on 22.5.03 1833)
EDIT: 3 Semi's make as much sense as a thumb tack in a jock strap...

(edited by rikidozan on 22.5.03 2053)

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Dutchie
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Since: 29.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 59 days
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#31 Posted on
...he says the Big-10 should snap up Pitt, which gives Penn State a natural rivalry...

The Penn State/Pitt rivalry absolutely rules, but I can't see the Big Ten adding Pitt for Penn State's sake. It's a great game for those of us in the East, but in the Big Ten, it would pale in comparison to Michigan/Ohio State. Penn State and Pitt have already renewed their rivalry without needing a conference game to do it - I believe it restarts in 2005. If they're already on schedule, there's no reason for the Big Ten to add another school with no other natural conference rivals.

Had the Big East ditched Temple when they had the chance and made a big play for Penn State, they might not be facing this nightmare now.

Penn State kinda screwed itself during those negotiations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the deal was that Paterno wanted a home advantage in every series - like an agreement to play 2 outta 3 times in State College or something like that. The bigger issue was bringing in the basketball teams. I don't think the Big East wanted our men's team, since travel costs outweighed profit. Penn State took the "all teams or none" stance, and hence we're the Eastern team with predominantly Northeastern recruits playing Midwestern teams who can recruit strongly in the East.



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TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

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#32 Posted on
Even if they do reform to get 5 major conferences and 3 at-large bids, what's to say that at least 2 out of the other 3 bids won't go to two teams in the same conference - maybe two teams in the title game? (Think 1 and 3 here.) Also, if someone "slips by," say 2 plays 20 in a conference final, but the 20 wins, the 2 will still go to a BCS bowl.

Not sure what I'm proving here, except that I don't have much faith that this will bring the mid-majors into BCS spotlights.

Riki, I agree with you on the massive playoff, but I don't think there's a way to do it with college football, unless you massively shorten the season to 6 or 7 games.

Also, you have 3 semi-final games.







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Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 1 day
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by TheCow
    >Also, you have 3 semi-final games.


ahh, the evils of cut and paste....

i was thinking of how to do divisions, and i don't evny the higher ups...

i did a N/S try
North
BC
'Cuse
MD
VA
Duke
NC

South
Miami
FSU
GT
Clemson
NCSU
Wake

but that carved up the 4 NC teams....if they have a fuss, heres another
Inner Div
Duke
NC
NCSU
WF
GT
Clemson

Outer Div
BC
'Cuse
MD
VA
Miami
FSU

but look at the travel costs




"Grabbin your butt? That's not very lady-like."
"I'm not a lady."
"Oh. Whatever."
力堵山
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 145 days
Last activity: 145 days
#34 Posted on
Of course Maryland has a deal that states that they get to play Duke, UNC, and either Wake or NC State at twice each season. So MD, Duke, and UNC would have to be in the same division.

-Jag



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TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 2396 days
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#35 Posted on
The North/South divisions make more sense to me than the Outer / Inner. Of course, they could do something really odd (see C-USA, as I still don't know what the divisions are between the National and American leagues are, outside of talent, sans Memphis. Basketball, btw), but aside from that, I don't know.

The N/S divisions look in favor of the South for football, and in favor of the North for basketball. However, in football, I'm reasonably sure that Miami and FSU might actually not be in the same divisions, as you can make a big-money conference championship game with them in different divisons. You could probably switch Virginia and Miami (or FSU) to pull that off... neither's a factor in basketball anyway. Plus, Miami would play FSU once every 2 or 3 seasons anyway (if they use the SEC-style game division, that sounds about right), or they might get "permanent opponent" status or some such - but then there's no point in changing divisions in the first place.

Either way, I think the divisions will be largely arbitrary, as much as that might suck.

Division 1:
Duke
NC
Wake
NCSU
MD
Miami

Division 2:
BC
'Cuse
GT
Clemson
VA
FSU

Maybe?







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StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 18 days
#36 Posted on

    Originally posted by The Red Sox Fan
    First off, North Carolina and Duke basketball along with all it entails can blow me. I'm so sick of hearing about the so-called awesome tradition of these two schools and Dean Smith and Coach K and all of that blather.

Well whether you like it or not, it's a big deal. Period.


    Dick Vitale perpetuates this stereotype that these two schools are (along with Bob Knight) the trinity of College Basketball.

Screw Dick Vitale. I don't think anyone outside of Duke likes that guy. He's one annoying man.


    College Football, and NCAA sports in general, are all about the MONEY.

Agreed. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to say otherwise. But no ACC fan is going to cause an uproar for that reason. While we know that this is going to happen because of the large influx of money into the ACC, lots of people don't WANT it to happen for selfish reasons. Namely, they way to preserve those long-standing rivalries. They're fun to watch, and for the average fan, what's more important than the fun factor?


    North Carolina and Duke have literally no chance most years to be competitive in football, and given NC's recent basketball showings, they should keep their friggin mouths shut about this.

Carolina will be a Final Four team within the next couple of years. And as much as it pains me to say it (for I hate the Blue Devils almost as much as I hate the Lakers) Duke will always be good. They have one of the youngest teams in the nation right now, but their current players are going to mature and get better. And if JJ Redick can get even better, watch the hell out. And to top it off, Duke will ALWAYS get the best recruits in the nation. Always. Carolina might snatch up a few, but Duke, unfortunately, seems to be the place to play. Did you know that if he didn't go to the NBA, Duke was LeBron James' first choice? Ugh.

- StingArmy
The Red Sox Fan
Cotechino








Since: 31.3.03
From: Philly Burbs

Since last post: 1861 days
Last activity: 3 days
#37 Posted on

    Originally posted by StingArmy

      Did you know that if he didn't go to the NBA, Duke was LeBron James' first choice? Ugh.

      - StingArmy



    I'm sure LeBron would have done very well at Duke (Laughing in background beginning). He certainly fits the Duke ethic of a "student-athlete" (Laughing getting louder). I'm sure he would have registered pre-med or pre-law (Howling laughter now).

    No, seriously, I think the kid would have been better off going to college for a few years, and I guess Coach K would have done as well with him as anyone else would.

    My new thought regarding this potential ACC thing is that the Big Ten, despite all of it's bluster to the contrary, should finally get serious with Notre Dame and ND should finally get serious with them. I know that the contract that they have with NBC is awesomely outrageous, but it's time. It's really time. Get in the Big Ten (or whatever they would call themselves) and then you have 5 legit BCS conferences with championship games.



    Simple way to make me happy: 2003 World Series Champions, Your Boston Red Sox
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 118 days
Last activity: 41 days
#38 Posted on

    Originally posted by Battlezone
    Well, here's a pretty interesting article from Artie Gigantino (foxsports.lycos.com) in regards to the fallout from the ACC's expansion.

    To summarize, he says the Big-10 should snap up Pitt, which gives Penn State a natural rivalry, the Pac-10 should grab BYU and Utah, and the Big East, well, the Big East should just go away. This would give the BCS five automatic bids and three at large.

    The most interesting part of this article? No, this does not spell the beginning of a playoff system, in fact quite the opposite. If the five BCS conferences (assuming the Big East dissolves, etc.) all have conference championship games, that will be viewed as a mini playoff. It will pacify the playoff backers and provide the fans with extra action in their own geographical region. The winners then advance to the BCS games, the losers go to non-BCS bowls, and everyone is happy and richer.

    Well? Would this pacify the folks clamoring for a playoff? You'd have 5 conference championship games, with likely the best 10 teams in the country, playing to get into 5 BCS spots. This also gives the BYUs and Marshalls a shot at playing in the grownup bowls, as opposed to annually sitting at the kiddie table come bowl season. I've never been a playoff guy, but I would think this would be a workable solution...



How the heck would this pacify the folks clamoring for a playoff? The #1-#2 matchup is still determined in the same fashion, and that's the only matchup that matters in determining the National Champion. Quite frankly, under the current set-up, I could care less how the other bowls are determined. In fact, I would prefer that they reinstall the old traditions, and leave all the other spots wide-open instead of having virtually every bowl spot tied to a certain conference. I know in the past this created more interesting matchups, and everything was more random. Bottom line is that unless a group of teams are playing a tournament down to one survivor, it's NOT a playoff. This would only pacify playoff people IF the big four bowls was the opening round of an eight team tournament. Otherwise, I just don't see this as being vastly different from the current set-up.

(On a side-note, the way I would do a playoff that I think is fair will never, never happen. I don't think it is fair for people to arbitrarily determine certain conferences as major and certain other conferences as mid-major. I think every team in I-A should have a legitimate chance at the I-A championship. My plan would call for every conference champion to get an automatic bid [perhaps with some qualifiers, like having to have a certain amount of wins over I-A opponents], and then have a selection committee select at-large teams to fill out the 16 team bracket (I think there is 11 or 12 conferences). I'm simply stealing the idea from the basketball tournament that works so well. But rarely do I see a plan like this. Most don't think the mid-majors should get this consideration. And many just simply want to take the top 8 teams in the polls. Well, to me the polls involve too much opinion, and if every one thought they were that reliable, there wouldn't be any need for a playoff to begin with, you would just simply accept the number one team from the poll as champion. Also, certain teams would never get into the top 8, regardless of their record. My plan would allow all 118 I-A teams to have an opportunity to win the national championship by simply winning football games on the field, as it should be. But the major conferences have the power, so this will never happen.)
shockdown
Cotechino








Since: 28.12.02

Since last post: 3819 days
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#39 Posted on
As a Terps fan, all this promises to be interesting, but I have one questions. Why wouldn't the ACC recruit West Virginia & VA Tech instead of Boston College & Syracuse? The two VA schools have been good in Football, and Miami-VA Tech has been a big game over the past few seasons. Given travel considerations, wouldn't it make more sense to bring in those two schools. Or are they not interested?



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--- Megatron
messenoir
Summer sausage








Since: 20.2.02
From: Columbia, MO

Since last post: 492 days
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#40 Posted on
In the Big 12, all conference teams play each other twice. So Kansas/MO still is a huge deal even after they expanded the number of teams to include Texas teams.

However, I dislike whenever sports divisions are messed with. Too much tradition is always screwed up. Eh well, as long as Miami wins next year (and doesn't lose their entire team to injuries again), I guess I don't care where they are.
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Is this confirmed like the last two guys? Or for real this time? And if it's true, what a terrible, terrible hire for head coach. I realize their options were getting limited, but wow.
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