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The W - Football - ACC to add 3 schools?
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Zeruel
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
http://espn.go.com/ncaa/s/2003/0505/1549669.html

the ACC is looking to add Miami, BC and 'Cuse... what do you all think?

in football, they would have 12 teams, meaning a title game is a go.

in basketball, it will add the defending champs and 3 more chances into the tourny.

according to the article: "Miami athletics director Paul Dee recently made a presentation to the school's Board of Trustees, outlining the pros and cons of leaving the Big East for the ACC, and his proposal included comments from football coach Larry Coker."

the only thing stopping them? the ACC needs 7 yes votes from it's 9 members to accept any additions to the conference.

the ACC thinks it has 5 or 6 yes votes. swing 1 or 2 more and it could be a done deal.

i personally like this, since i'm a ACC supporter (I'm a Univ of MD student) and it will help the conf more than it would hurt it, IMHO.



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"Oh. Whatever."
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Jaguar
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

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#2 Posted on
Have you read what this would to do basketball? I'm sorry, but I think that this would totally screw up the basketball schedual. Which of our current 9 teams wants to play Carolina or Duke only once a year? I know Florida State would be sad if they missed out on the chance to win their favorite upset game. I personally hate the way conferences like the Big East and the Big 12 are scheduled. Also, what does this really do for ACC football (besides a championship game and more revenue from that)? Out of the 9 current schools only Florida State, Maryland, and NC State are fielding decent teams. So for the other six schools this isn't going to do much except add more losses in conference.

-Jag



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Zeruel
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
one thing they never mentioned, and i brought up sometime last year in a college ball thread is that they COULD do a north/south divisions....maybe they could solve the problem there? i don't know how b-ball schudling is done, so i can't really comment there, but 12 teams in football would mean either divisions or no non-conference games...hmmmm maybe more thought IS needed.....

but the addition of just miami will help the prestige of the conf.



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"I'm not a lady."
"Oh. Whatever."
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ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

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#4 Posted on
Jaguar,

You brush away that conference championship and the revenue from that as if it is nothing. That's some significant dough. Also, all three teams that are considering the ACC are teams that are generally bowl eligible. That's more revenue for the conference, revenue not being generated by some of the current ACC teams.

This is all about the dollars.
Jaguar
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

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#5 Posted on
I realize this is all about the money, but as it stands only 3/9 teams in the ACC are really looking to cash in on those football dollars, at the expense of ACC Basketball (which everyone not from Flordia St will tell you is what we're all about). I have a feeling that if they feel that can get away with it, this will pass and we'll end up with a divided ACC, but in my eyes this only damages the conference.

-Jag

And like I said, I hate twelve team conferences, and their damn divisions. If your conference doesn't actually have enough games to play each other in, I think it's too big.



Roxanne from The Real Cancun on being famous:
"I'd rather be known for [dancing topless with my twin sister] instead of being smart or something. There's a million people who are smart. There's only 16 of us who were in Cancun together."
Keeper
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Since: 1.3.02
From: Worcester, MA

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#6 Posted on
I heard this being discussed on sports radio a couple of weeks ago(here in Boston/Worcester). I would like to see all three of them stay in the Big East. I mean, the Big East can't even keep their coaches, at least they can keep their teams in the conference.... right?

But, if Miami leaves the conference, then I wouldn't mind at all if Boston College goes with them. The two biggest college football games around here (IMO) are BC vs. Miami and BC vs. Notre Dame (and this is nowhere close to a college sports town, most of them go by with little fan fare). Since Notre Dame is independent in football, that rivalry would probably be safe.

I still look forward to the Miami game, and if that didn't happen every year, I would be a little disappointed.

As far as Basketball, I am not in the know on scheduling.


    Originally posted by Jaguar
    If your conference doesn't actually have enough games to play each other in, I think it's too big.


I agree. You should play everyone in your conference at least once.



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Since: 29.1.02
From: PA

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#7 Posted on
but the addition of just miami will help the prestige of the conf.

That's really a slap in the face of the rebuilding and up-n-coming ACC football teams - FSU, Virginia, Maryland, Georgia Tech... even NC State wasn't bad, they just faded down the stretch. So what happens when Miami goes through a down cycle a few years down the road? Does the ACC go shopping for a new "prestige" team? But then again, they're just using 'prestige' in place of 'monetary influx' so it sounds less pretentious - future concerns that aren't income-related probably aren't really a concern right now.

Plus, this would devestate the Big East in both football and basketball. The only way (IMO) to save face if Miami left would be to get Notre Dame to join the Big East in all sports (i.e., football). It doesn't matter where Notre Dame plays, be it Chestnut Hill, Tallahassee, or my backyard - they're gonna draw. Losing Miami would suck for the Big East, but the revenue they could get from Notre Dame and that NBC contract that comes along with them would dampen (overshadow?) the monetary loss of Miami.

But this is not very likely happen as Notre Dame will not give up the ability to schedule however they want because the independent status gives them flexibility. They don't have to schedule x number of conference games per year, so they can play teams from most of the major conferences to maintain their 'traditional' rivalries.



(edited by StegDutchie on 9.5.03 0112)


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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
As a huge Terps fan, I hate this idea just on the basketball principle of not being certain of playing Duke and Carolina and Wake and Virginia every year.



    Originally posted by rikidozan

    one thing they never mentioned, and i brought up sometime last year in a college ball thread is that they COULD do a north/south divisions


The only problem is where to draw the line on the divisions. It seems simple, but under no circumstances do the four North Carolina teams want to be broken up into seperate divisions. If they want to take a strange, Big East way out, they could split into East and West:

WEST: Duke, Carolina, State, Wake, Clemson, Tech
EAST: BC, 'Cuse, Maryland, Miami, Florida State, Virginia

Of course, that doesn't make the title game work.

I just hope they punt on the entire idea. What would be interesting is the domino effect of the move in relation to other conferences. One doomsday scenario has UConn winding up in ConferenceUSA and another with Marshall in the Big East



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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#9 Posted on
I know the ACC is a basketball conference, but let's face reality. College football rules the roost in college sports. It's the Big Dog. And from a football standpoint, this is a great idea.

Miami and BC are strong in football, thus bringing up the relative worth of the conference. Adding a conference title game not only means extra money in the coffers from that, but the expanded possibility of getting a second team in the BCS. And unless I'm mistaken, the ACC is the only conference to not do that in the current BCS era.

Scheduling would probably be nightmare, because there's no way Miami and FSU play each other outside of a title game, and I don't know how you split up the Carolina schools. But they pay people big bucks to figure out that stuff. Here's how I'd do it:

Division A: Miami, GA Tech, Wake Forest, North Carolina, Clemson, Virginia
Division B: FSU, Syracuse, Maryland, BC, Duke, NC State

As far as your other sports, Miami is a perennial power in baseball, which is another sport the ACC is strong in. Syracuse would bring it's men's basketball title along with it's strong lacrosse lineage.

"If your conference doesn't actually have enough games to play each other in, I think it's too big."

I agree, but unfortuately, we're in the era of the "power conference". And he who is the biggest gets the most pie. Or something like that.





"So you're Ben Affleck. You're sitting next to Jennifer Lopez, who's your fiancee, you're eating a eight-foot high sundae, and members of the Boston Red Sox are coming up to you and asking for autographs. If that's not heaven, what is?" - Tony Kornheiser, PTI
The Red Sox Fan
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Since: 31.3.03
From: Philly Burbs

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#10 Posted on
If BC moves to the ACC, I can virtually guarantee you that Notre Dame will stop playing them. In fact, it's likely that if those three teams go to the ACC, Notre Dame will be given an ultimatum to either join the Big East for all sports (which WILL NOT happen) or get out with their basketball programs. If that happens, this whole thing will spin out of control quickly. Notre Dame actually is a huge key to the whole college football landscape, due to the utterly unique situation that they've created for themselves, with their independant status and exclusive TV deal with NBC.

This move, as has been discussed on all the major sports sites, would have seismic repercussions in the NCAA. Many smaller conferences would likely feel the impact.



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StingArmy
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Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Have you read what this would to do basketball? I'm sorry, but I think that this would totally screw up the basketball schedual. Which of our current 9 teams wants to play Carolina or Duke only once a year?

Well, being from Georgia Tech, I hate Duke with a burning passion matched only by my hatred for the Lakers, so playing them only once a year would be fine by me. BUT - I do understand what you're getting at and I totally agree that this would ruin ACC basketball.

I was fine with the idea of adding just Miami way back when the idea was first presented, but adding Syracuse and BC is asking for a little too much. While having a conference title game during the football game is a very attractive proposal, I don't think it outweighs the benefits of each team playing each other in-conference team twice during the basketball season. Maybe this is just one of things that you can't really appreciate until you've been a part of it..

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TheCow
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

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#12 Posted on
Hm....

In terms of possible spinout/fallout, the word around these parts is that Louisville would most likely join the Big East, leaving Cincy, Marshall, and Memphis to fight over the last 2 spots. Either way, from that aspect, that would leave C-USA devastated (although the remaining school from there would probably join C-USA), thus basically creating another 10-team mid-major. Probably the safest alternative, but all the same, there's going to be either one good football team or one good basketball team that gets completely screwed here, and I can't say I'm happy with that. What's so wrong with a 9-team conference, anyway?

I understand the implications of revenue, yes. However, I'm pretty sure that Marshall has the capability to be a top player in the ACC, giving the league 10 teams and the chance of a title game. Obviously, they're not as a big of a name as Miami, but it doesn't mean they're not good. The impact wouldn't be nearly as noticable (at least on a national standpoint) if a mid-major team jumps to a major; plus, it wouldn't impact the basketball season as much (other than throwing in another "2nd league" team).

Just my idea, though.







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Ffej
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Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

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#13 Posted on
The clamor around here is Marshall would join the Big East along with Cincinnati. This would make Marshall extremely happy because they finally would get the annual WVU/Marshall football game they crave. WVU has refused to play at Marshall since the Blundering Terds came to division 1. The Marshallites 'round here would celebrate- until WVU came in and kicked their ass.

Personally I think its a win-win restructure all around. It certainly would make the ACC the best basketball conference hands down year in and year out.


EDIT: Spelling and what not



(edited by Ffej on 13.5.03 1605)


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TheCow
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Since: 3.1.02
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#14 Posted on
It's a win-win restructure for all the major conferences, yes. However, the mid-majors get completely screwed here. The MAC's out what is probably its best-known school (not counting the yearly MAC upset, but that's more conference and not individual), C-USA is hit hard, losing what's basically its only decent football school as well as two of its top three basketball teams.

I'd be in favor of all the C-USA teams I mentioned before moving to the Big East (although that would raise some eyebrows as to what Memphis is doing in a strongly East-Coast conference.... but Arizona played in the NFC East for how many years?), as that would still keep the major basketball rivalries in C-USA still intact (I think that 'Cats fans here can sympathize with me when I say that I look forward to Memphis beating the life out of Louisville year in and year out), as the main three teams - Memphis, Louisville, and Cincinatti - are national powers to some degree (or at least nationally known).

However, to those that say it would make the ACC the best basketball conference .... you're only really adding Syracuse. Miami and BC are decent, but not spectacular, teams. You've got to split conferences, but how do you balance them to where you don't have one or two teams walking over all the rest in their division? (Fortunately for the SEC East, we have Vandy to satisfy that... and raise the SEC's graduation rates, but that's another thread.)

Either 1 team or 3 teams are joining the Big East, though. If it's only 1, I'd say Marshall. If it's 3, I say the C-USA teams.







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Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#15 Posted on
This just in:

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2003/0513/1553257.html

Virginia Tech? Holy cow.

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Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#16 Posted on
Well, VA Tech would make more sense, regionally, than Boston College or Syracuse.

So here's how I see things shaping up, football-wise:

Miami, VA Tech, and Syracuse leave the Big East for the ACC. In an attempt to salvage its BCS spot, the Big East snaps up Marshall, Cincy and another team (Memphis? Louisville?). The WAC pops up and says, "Marshall? We've got more football pedigree than frickin' Marshall!" The BCS bids adieu to the Big East and picks up the WAC.

Talk about a domino effect...could be a interesting summer.





"So you're Ben Affleck. You're sitting next to Jennifer Lopez, who's your fiancee, you're eating a eight-foot high sundae, and members of the Boston Red Sox are coming up to you and asking for autographs. If that's not heaven, what is?" - Tony Kornheiser, PTI
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Since: 22.4.02
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#17 Posted on
Since I'm not really a conference fan in football, the ACC can take VA Tech.

But if this cripples the Big East as a basketball conference, I will go on a killing spree the likes of which has NEVER been seen. Everyone's talking about how this'll screw up the ACC, because Duke can't play Maryland twice. Uhm, hi, this'll leave the Big East with how many big teams? I'm probably babbling here, but I don't see why they need to try to castrate the Big East like this.

Yes, that was all because of the rumor that UConn might jump to C-USA.



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Zeruel
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by TheCow
    However, I'm pretty sure that Marshall has the capability to be a top player in the ACC, giving the league 10 teams and the chance of a title game.



pssst....12 is the magic number for title games...



"Grabbin your butt? That's not very lady-like."
"I'm not a lady."
"Oh. Whatever."
力堵山
Ffej
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

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#19 Posted on
12 may be the the magic number but if those three teams go to the ACC they have already decided to break it up into two 5 team divisions and have a championship game.



WIENER OF THE DAY! July 6, 2002!

Fear can sometimes be a useful emotion. For instance, let's say you're an astronaut on the moon and you fear that your partner has been turned into Dracula. The next time he goes out for the moon pieces, wham!, you just slam the door behind him and blast off. He might call you on the radio and say he's not Dracula, but you just say, "Think again, bat man."
Battlezone
Potato korv








Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

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#20 Posted on
The NCAA says that to have a conference title game, you have to have 12 teams in your conference...





"So you're Ben Affleck. You're sitting next to Jennifer Lopez, who's your fiancee, you're eating a eight-foot high sundae, and members of the Boston Red Sox are coming up to you and asking for autographs. If that's not heaven, what is?" - Tony Kornheiser, PTI
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