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The W - Current Events & Politics - A whole different world
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ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2502 days
Last activity: 2389 days
#1 Posted on
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3.htm

The Islamic world needs a Rennaisance and FAST. Beheading and Crucifixion? My God, and they are our "allies" in the region. You'd think that in a time when communication is so amazing, the world would have a very similar mindset. But I guess as long as a few have the oil in the region, nothing will change.
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Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2831 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
kgriffey79 sez:

    Beheading and Crucifixion? My God, and they are our "allies" in the region.


Why are beheading and crucifixion any worse than poisoning or the electric chair? If you go by the arguments that capital punishment deters crime, then I would think that a slow death like crucifixion would be a much better deterrent than a humane death through injection. And beheading, if done properly, is nice and quick ... the person is aware of being beheaded for only a few seconds after it is done before they die. (The French did tests with criminals executed by the guillotine).

Now, of course hanging an accused upside down and beating a confession out of him is wrong and outrageous ... but I really think in a fair and unbiased judiciary, like say Texas, beheading and crucifixion would be a real vote winner!




(edited by Gavintzu on 8.9.03 0819)


They got a mule they call Sal, bulldozing up canal walls.
They're gonna tap that icecap too,
And when they do they're gonna make that green map blue.
And the weather is finally getting warm ...
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3838 days
Last activity: 3780 days
#3 Posted on
The Islamic world needs a Rennaisance? Don't you live in a country where in some states, evolution theory cannot be taught because it goes against the teachings of God?



...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2502 days
Last activity: 2389 days
#4 Posted on
The Beheading and Crucifixion is worse than injection because it is public. They would make a show of it. Sure, some family members of victims can watch it live, but it that is nothing like watching a crucifixion.

A-MOL, That is a wild, wild comparison.
Scott Summets
Sujuk








Since: 27.6.02

Since last post: 3870 days
Last activity: 3839 days
#5 Posted on
    Originally posted by A-MOL
    The Islamic world needs a Rennaisance? Don't you live in a country where in some states, evolution theory cannot be taught because it goes against the teachings of God?


Also last time I checked America doesn't separate the sexes, force women to not have jobs, wear clothing that hides them, basically make them nothing more than sex slaves for men. Also like KGriffey79 said we don't have public executions--I can't remeber the last time we set up 50 people to stakes in the Georgia Dome for the purpose of cutting their tounges and eyes out whereas actions like this are commonplace in Iraq and the surrounding area. Perhaps America needed a renissance 40 years ago, but A-MOL--if I went to your country I could never hold office because I'm a dirty papist. That doesn't seem very fair or civilized either.



Have you tried the Chai? It's tea!
Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2831 days
Last activity: 2831 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
So the extent of this Islamic Renaissance would involve

a) Private, not public, beheadings and crucifixions.

b) Women being allowed to dress like Britney Spears in public without fear of having acid thrown in their faces.

I've heard of setting realistic goals, but this doesn't sound like a full Renaissance -- more like an '80s revival night at a high-school reunion.

(And what exactly is wrong with public executions anyways? I think it shows more bad conscience hiding executions behind a veil of secrecy. Every time a crimial is executed, Fox News should be forced to show it live. For the pre-game show on Court TV, they could show a little piece on the criminal's neighbourhood growing up, show his house, interview a few neighbours who knew him when he was just a maladjusted street thug. Hey, also interview his court-appointed lawyer who failed to get him life in prison. Then, on the main network, they could show him eating his last meal, maybe talk to a few of the prisoners who got to know him on death row, and then his last rites.

When they get to the actual execution, the director should be bound by law to close up on the money shot -- a close-up of his face as he passes away. Then they could cut to the studio for a few replays, then back to regularly scheduled programming.

If the State is going to kill human beings on behalf of its citizens, then those citizens should see fully what is being done on their behalf.)






They got a mule they call Sal, bulldozing up canal walls.
They're gonna tap that icecap too,
And when they do they're gonna make that green map blue.
And the weather is finally getting warm ...
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3838 days
Last activity: 3780 days
#7 Posted on
Define position of power, because Tony Blair, though christened as CoE, worships at Catholic churches and I know of many ministers who, like myself, are Roman Catholic.



...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2502 days
Last activity: 2389 days
#8 Posted on
Gavintzu, when did anybody actually define fully what an Islamic Rennaisance would be? Did anybody clearly limit it to your two sarcastic points?
An Islamic Rennaisance would and should involve the same values that the Rennaisance of the Western World. The advancements of real capitalism and Individual freedom. Some people say that history isn't a story of progression, that no culture is inherently better or more righteous than the next. But I disagree. I believe in the inherent goodness of capitalism and the idea of "doing your own thing."
An Islamic Rennaissance would involve the end of theocratic and despotic governments. The rise of democracy and capitalism. Everything else good follows those two events. At least in my young opinion.
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 163 days
Last activity: 163 days
#9 Posted on
The inherent goodness of capitalism? Wow. What's so inherently good about economic theory?

-Jag



Cybernetic Robotic Zombie
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 47 days
Last activity: 47 days
#10 Posted on
The Islamic world doesn't need a Renaissance. Any society that is threatened by Barbie must be doing just fine, right?



'But if one is struck by me only a little, that is far different, the stroke is a sharp thing and suddenly lays him lifeless, and that man's wife goes with cheeks torn in lamentation, and his children are fatherless, while he, staining the soil with his red blood, rots away, and there are more birds than women swarming about him.' Diomedes, The Iliad of Homer

Maiden RULES!!!
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2502 days
Last activity: 2389 days
#11 Posted on
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    The inherent goodness of capitalism? Wow. What's so inherently good about economic theory?

    -Jag


www.moraldefense.com
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 163 days
Last activity: 163 days
#12 Posted on
I'm not even sure where to start. That whole site just blows my mind.

    Originally posted by moraldefense.com
    The essence of capitalism is that it bans the use of physical force and fraud in men's economic relationships. All decisions are to be left to the "free market"—that is, to the un-coerced decisions of buyers and sellers, manufacturers and distributors, employers and employees. The first rule of capitalism is that everyone has a right to dispose of his own life and property according to his own judgment.


How the hell does capitalism ban the use of physical force and fraud? What's to stop me from using force of arms to drive my competition out of business? Wouldn't this be smart business sense?


Eh. I had to stop there. I had a few more things to go over with their FAQ, but the whole thing is making my head hurt. Suffice it to say while I don't have a problem with, "We believe free markets are the way to go!" I cannot wrap my head around how capitalism is 'moral'.

-Jag

I think I'll sleep on it.



Cybernetic Robotic Zombie
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2502 days
Last activity: 2389 days
#13 Posted on
What alternative do you suggest?
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni








Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 2952 days
Last activity: 2949 days
#14 Posted on
You're missing the point completely. Economic theory is not a moral code.






Weekly Visitor - PSSSSHAW!

Jersey Is Dead - New Old Stuff!!!
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2502 days
Last activity: 2389 days
#15 Posted on
No it's not, but economic theory and moral codes go hand in hand. In capitalism, individuals are free to do what they want to make money. If they are free to do what they want to make money, political and social freedoms follow. In Communism, the state controls the economic engines, therefore, people aren't free to do as they wish to make money. And because they aren't free in that area, the state controls most other areas as well.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They all go hand in hand.
Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2831 days
Last activity: 2831 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
kgriffey79 sez:

    An Islamic Rennaissance would involve the end of theocratic and despotic governments. The rise of democracy and capitalism. Everything else good follows those two events.


I agree with you wholeheartedly. The Third World needs democracy and capitalism.

BUT ...

There are huge problems with getting from our current reality to that point.

1) Most Third World countries lack a unifying history. They were cobbled together arbitrarily by the retreating colonial powers -- Winston Churchill, during the inter-war years, reportedly sat down with a map of the Middle East and drew the boundaries of Iraq, Syria, and Jordan while half-cut over dinner.

This makes democracy pretty tough to implement in places like Iraq -- it may be that many residents there view themselves as Iraqis. But it is also true that many view themselves as Kurds or Shia or Sunni. And many hate each other. Like what happened in Yugoslavia, when a dictatorship held the country together for years, then was overthown. The country descended into civil war and ethnic cleansing. The same is probably going to happen in Iraq when the U.S. and Britain pull out.

2) Capitalism and Islam may never mix. One of the key elements of capitalism is lending money for interest, which (may be) forbidden by the Quran. Why would banks lend money to entrepreneurs if the banks are not allowed to charge interest? This is controversial even in Muslim countries, but the fact is fundamentalist Muslim countries have outlawed lending for interest.

3) Democracy and capitalism do not always go hand in hand. This September 11 we should remember not only the attacks in 2001, but also the coupe in Chile on Sept. 11, 1973. When Pinochet and the generals took power, they imported most of the ideas of the Chicago School of Economics (forerunners of the neo-conservativism of Reagan and Thatcher). For 20 odd years Chile was capitalist, while a brutal dictatorship, supported by the CIA.

The problem is, history has shown that Washington has placed great value on its allies being capitalist, but not worrying too much about the democracy part. I personally feel the Buushist Party is continuing this grand tradition.

Whew. Lecture over. My point in short form: saying that Muslim countries need a Renaissance is very naive.






They got a mule they call Sal, bulldozing up canal walls.
They're gonna tap that icecap too,
And when they do they're gonna make that green map blue.
And the weather is finally getting warm ...
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One thing I should have mentioned earlier. There is a big difference between the leadership of unions and the rank and file. In many ways over the last 20+ years the politics of the leadership has diverged from the membership.
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