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30.10.14 1821
The W - Pro Wrestling - A reason to get RAW magazine
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DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 37 days
Last activity: 37 days
#1 Posted on
From 411:

Steve Austin's upcoming RAW magazine column is said to be a "must read." Austin penned the column himself and was truthful about why he left WWE. The issue should hit stores in a week or two.


Hmmm......



By the way, Storm's gimmick includes 1.) telling the audience to shut up, and 2.) occasionally making everyone stand for the Canadian national anthem. You know they don't know what to do with a wrestler when he's making fans stand for a national anthem. It's like waving a white flag and saying, "This guy has no personality -- we give up."

ESPN's Bill Simmons
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tomvejada
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4081 days
Last activity: 4081 days
#2 Posted on
On last night's "Bottom Line", Marc Loyd had the Raw Magazine with him (Austin's on the cover) in one segment. He didn't say when the magazine will be in stores.







"I just got pinned by a friggin twelve-year-old."

Kurt Angle
dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3207 days
Last activity: 2912 days
#3 Posted on
I just can't believe this is not going to be a "worked shoot" article with alot of kayfabe thrown in. Maybe that was part of his agreement to come back, that he will get to speak his mind. But I just find it hard to believe Vince would allow Austin to bury him, Brian, and JR in a RAW magazine. I would think that is exactly what would happen if Austin got to shoot.



January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1994 days
Last activity: 1928 days
#4 Posted on
I doubt Austin would bury them, even if he was totally shooting. He understands how the business works and I'd imagine he realises that the moment he walked out the door he waived any rights to superstar treatment on WWE television. Hell, who knows-maybe the guy's come to terms with his problems and is actually going to admit that what he did-both to Debra and the WWE-was wrong.



"Here's the thing: I don't give a tupenny f*ck about your moral conundrum, you meatheaded shit-sack. That's pretty much the thing." Daniel Day-Lewis as Bill "The Butcher" Cutting, Gangs Of New York. You'd be surprised at how many statements this can be used as a response to.

dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 14 hours
Last activity: 11 hours
#5 Posted on
I doubt if we know what Austin's take is on what happened back then.
Maybe the man will simply say what on his mind, which might be alot less political than we all seem to think, even if he 'shoots'..



PowerPB13
Potato korv








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
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#6 Posted on
It'd be hilarious if Triple H throws a tantrum over the content of the article and takes a walk, just like he constantly ragged on Austin for doing...

-Patrick
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3269 days
Last activity: 3269 days
#7 Posted on
Personally, I don't think he did anything wrong to WWE. Vince is lucky that Steve even wants to come back at all. This article should be an interesting read.
Teppan-Yaki
Pepperoni








Since: 28.6.02

Since last post: 944 days
Last activity: 915 days
#8 Posted on
Well, yes and no. I mean, it does suck that ethically he didn't try and work this out. He left with basically no notice.

However, if he does come back... forget Goldberg -- have him and Rock tie it up again. You have the working man, fed up with the system, against the corporate sell-out champion, all over again. I wouldn't even think of getting Bill in. I mean, Rock getting roles that get a percentage to WWE is good for WWE business.

However, the more and more movies he's in, the less in-ring time that he has, and the "take the ball and go home" speech that he made loses more and more credibility, at least in my mind. Austin can't walk out, but it's ok for Rock to leave wrestling to make movies -- because that makes money for the corporation. Always the blue chipper.



"We had four couples, eight questions, a refrigerator and that's it."
--Chuck Barris, talking about The Newlywed Game on LIVE! With Regis and Kelly
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 41 min.
AIM:  
#9 Posted on
Maybe the article will be more of Vince's "revisionist history" a la WWE Confidential. I could just see Vince looking over Austin's shoulder as he writes the column.

If it is "the truth according to Austin", it should be a good read. Hey, Vince is a bussinessman- if some redneck saying how much he hates the owner sells magazines, Vince would do it.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Personally, I don't think he did anything wrong to WWE. Vince is lucky that Steve even wants to come back at all. This article should be an interesting read.


Yep. He only publically criticized the creative direction of the product before leaving, broke the terms of his contract, walked out on the same people who lined his pockets to the point that he even had the choice to "just go home" (that's the fans AND the company).

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

Although it is conduct that sound more like something a child star from a show on Nickelodeon might do as apposed to a 38 year old man.



"If there are no monkeys in the House of Commons, how come you never see a banana outside of it? I've been to Ottawa dozens of times, and I've never seen a banana anywhere near the Parliament buildings. Clearly, that's because there are monkeys inside."
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3269 days
Last activity: 3269 days
#11 Posted on
I strongly disagree. The Stone Cold character was Steve Austin's brainchild, not Vince McMahon, and not Vince Russo. It was Austin and his ex-wife that developed the persona. Vince McMahon thought Austin couldn't cut a promo and stuck him with Ted Dibiase, remember?

He lined his own pockets with the help of WWF. He made A LOT of people very rich besides himself. He developed the majority of his own merchandise where he made most of his money.

So he screws up his neck for the company and comes back better then ever, when he could've coasted his way through and collected a paycheque. That's not his style.

He took a horrible heel character and tried to make it work. When the Invasion flopped, they had to turn to him to try and save it when Austin had broken bones in his back. He carried that company through 2001 and suffered through blown angle after blown angle.

What's his reward? Vince hires and starts listening to the guys who helped put WCW out of business. The guys who people turned away from to see Steve Austin. He gets put in a feud with an unreliable drunk. He gets put in a feud with a 50 year old man who held him down and got him fired from WCW.

So you want loyalty from a man to a company who has no loyalty to him or anyone else for that matter?
FurryHippie
Frankfurter








Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

Since last post: 2987 days
Last activity: 1674 days
AIM:  
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    I strongly disagree. The Stone Cold character was Steve Austin's brainchild, not Vince McMahon, and not Vince Russo. It was Austin and his ex-wife that developed the persona. Vince McMahon thought Austin couldn't cut a promo and stuck him with Ted Dibiase, remember?

    He lined his own pockets with the help of WWF. He made A LOT of people very rich besides himself. He developed the majority of his own merchandise where he made most of his money.

    So he screws up his neck for the company and comes back better then ever, when he could've coasted his way through and collected a paycheque. That's not his style.

    He took a horrible heel character and tried to make it work. When the Invasion flopped, they had to turn to him to try and save it when Austin had broken bones in his back. He carried that company through 2001 and suffered through blown angle after blown angle.

    What's his reward? Vince hires and starts listening to the guys who helped put WCW out of business. The guys who people turned away from to see Steve Austin. He gets put in a feud with an unreliable drunk. He gets put in a feud with a 50 year old man who held him down and got him fired from WCW.

    So you want loyalty from a man to a company who has no loyalty to him or anyone else for that matter?



This topic has been killed over and over again, but it still must be said -

Something I think we all HAVE to agree on is that, right or wrong, Austin should have given notice before leaving. You simply can't justify (no matter how pissed you are) walking out on NO NOTICE whatsoever when you're one of the most important parts of a hugely popular company where fans pay to see YOU.

His reasons for walking are subject for discussion, but even Stone Cold has to give a 2 weeks notice. And if you say "well he was unhappy, he had right to just walk", then you're giving every Michael Jordan the right to miss a game without notice just because he doesn't like how his team is operating. It's bullshit and you know it.

The problem is that most of the arguments here about Austin are centered around "did he have a right to walk". Then you go on to list reasons that justify his UNHAPPINESS, not his right to leave without notice. That's the flaw in every one of these arguments.

Austin had no right to walk. Period.



ahem....

BOO-yah!
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3269 days
Last activity: 3269 days
#13 Posted on
In JR's Confidential piece, he said that he contacted Austin on the Sunday and told him what they were planning for RAW. Austin told him that they either change it or he's not doing the show. He showed up, it wasn't changed, he left. He did what he said he was going to do.

Don't say he screwed over the paying fans because they're not guranteed Austin by going to RAW. It's always Card Subject To Change. And this was *RAW* where there's no gurantee anyone will be there or be wrestling.

You can't compare Austin to a sports player. If the sports player has grievances with his team, they often demand a trade. They holdout. If it's a more serious problem, they can go to the Union. They've got options, they've got benefits.

Pro wrestlers are circus animals. They've got two choices, stay or go. There's no middle ground, there's no union, there's nothing so they can't be compared to other professions.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#14 Posted on
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    I strongly disagree. The Stone Cold character was Steve Austin's brainchild, not Vince McMahon, and not Vince Russo. It was Austin and his ex-wife that developed the persona.


I have never disputed this, but you know what, Vince didn't come up with Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, or even the name "the Rock". All these guys were very hands on in the development of their personas. It's always 90 percent the guy who is performing the role. That's the way performance art works. When it's only 10 percent that guy performing the role and the rest is all instruction; it's obvious and forced. But it's not like Vince McMahon and Vince Russo had NOTHING to do with Austin's success. Jesus, Austin V.S. McMahon had as much to do with Vince's presence as it did Austin's. It was propped up on the established Vince McMahon character breaking character for the first time in 15 years and being a heel. You think Vince had nothing to do with it? He was a brilliant heel foil. And it's Vince's company---Which means Vince gave him the platform. Star Wars is a classic film, but what is it without 20th Century Fox. The company makes it possible. We can't give Vince all the credit when shit goes badly, but none of the credit when stuff was going great and numbers were up.


    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Vince McMahon thought Austin couldn't cut a promo and stuck him with Ted Dibiase, remember?

    He lined his own pockets with the help of WWF. He made A LOT of people very rich besides himself. He developed the majority of his own merchandise where he made most of his money.



Austin couldn't really cut a great promo back then. I saw his stuff in ECW, and it's one thing to do a great promo for a bunch of net nerds that are obsessed with every inner working of the business, it's another to cut a promo with kids and grandparents in the audience. When Austin came in 1995, the WWF was still a family show. Once characters like Austin's drove the kids and grandparents out of the audience and replaced it with teenagers, then all of a sudden Austin was the best interview in the business. I doubt if you take out all that swearing and pandering to the crowd that Austin's a great interview. Austin came up with Austin 3:16, and God bless him for it. But all this kind of blasphemy and cursing covers up what little substance an Austin promo actually has. Whereas with a Flair promo...But I digress. Heck though, I didn't know he was a graphic artist. (Will wonders never cease?)



    Originally posted by fuelinjected


    So he screws up his neck for the company and comes back better then ever, when he could've coasted his way through and collected a paycheque. That's not his style.



Screwing up your neck is an accepted risk in professional wrestling. He can't complain about it, it's a risk every single performer takes. And he screwed up his neck trying to make money. He wasn't working for free. Guys get injured trying to get paid, this ain't a chairty benefit folks. He wasn't "better than ever" until being put out again in 1999 and coming back again, at which point instead of working with Rock and Kane and Untaker he was working with Angle, Benoit, Triple H, and Jericho. Let's not pretend his quality of opponents had no impact on the matches. He may not have "coasted" but not too many people in the company at that time were doing so, and when you're the top guy and make more money than anyone else on the active roster, you have to stay on your toes. If he went out there and sucked he wouldn't have been kept on top.




    Originally posted by fuelinjected


    He took a horrible heel character and tried to make it work. When the Invasion flopped, they had to turn to him to try and save it when Austin had broken bones in his back. He carried that company through 2001 and suffered through blown angle after blown angle.



I won't say the heel character was a good move for business, but in wrestling the heel leads the dance. As a heel, Austin got a chance to prove that he could still go and he put in the best performances of his career. I don't think it was a "horrible" character. For me, it was by far the best thing he ever did and it was the only time I ever looked forward to watching Stone Cold perform.



    Originally posted by fuelinjected



    What's his reward? Vince hires and starts listening to the guys who helped put WCW out of business. The guys who people turned away from to see Steve Austin. He gets put in a feud with an unreliable drunk. He gets put in a feud with a 50 year old man who held him down and got him fired from WCW.

    So you want loyalty from a man to a company who has no loyalty to him or anyone else for that matter?



Hulk Hogan is a legend and he deserves his oppotunity to share the stage. No title reigns were promised, Hogan and Nash weren't given the book, and they weren't expected to be around that long. If I'm Austin instead of sulking like a bitch, I'd be thinking of a way to make a shitload of money against Hogan and get mentioned on every media outlet in the country instead of worrying about "my spot". He worked with Scott Hall. That sucked, I'll agree. Ric Flair is a legend who had more great matches in any one month in the 80's than Austin's had in his entire career. I'm sorry, but if I'm Vince why am I not going to hire legends and established stars because Austin doesn't like it? It's my company. Guys like Hogan and Flair, without whom Austin may not have had the oppotunity to earn waht he earned, are ALWAYS going to get opportunities to come back and do something because they helped build the business. If Austin can't accept that, how about the fact that from least important to most important: it's a sport, it's a show and it's a business. If he don't like Ric Flair tough shit. Go out there and do business. You don't have to let him suck your dick---no one expects you guys to go hang out and announce marriage plans. Just do your job.

Austin can be compared to a sports player for the very reason that he has the money that a sports player has. And there are other ways to deal with creative issues. There's a grown-up way and a childish, self-important way. His pissy little fit was the same thing Shawn Michaels used to do. And yes, he did screw the fans. Card is subject to change is a very weak loophole, but when the guy who the show is built around (who demanded the show be built around him) doesn't show up, it's weak to say well card is subject to change. People accept injuries but obviously when you don't have a legal leg to stand on and you're just "not happy" you can't say you aren't in breach of contract because of something they print on hole-punched paper. He was advertised. His ass should have been there.

All of these arguments about how he lined his own pockets are ridiculous because people have to buy it for it to be a hot seller. He didn't pull some corporate merger, he sold t-shirts and PPV's. The people who bought them are the sole reason he has the money he has. You can't say it's talent and creativity because that alone won't make you money; you need to have a fanbase. And he shit on his.



(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 26.1.03 2307)

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 26.1.03 2311)

"If there are no monkeys in the House of Commons, how come you never see a banana outside of it? I've been to Ottawa dozens of times, and I've never seen a banana anywhere near the Parliament buildings. Clearly, that's because there are monkeys inside."
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3269 days
Last activity: 3269 days
#15 Posted on
First, I was talking about when he had neck surgery in 99 and returned better then ever a year later when quite frankly he didn't have to.

I don't see how it would benefit Austin to have feuded with Hogan. Did it benefit The Rock? Not in the least. It made it cool for everyone to now hate The Rock.

Hogan sure left WWF in great shape didn't he? The company was dieing in the mid-90's before Austin. There wouldn't be a WWF today if it weren't for him. Anyone else's success (Rock, Foley, Vince, HHH) as a draw is tied to Austin.

I do like how on one hand, you're praising the legend of the great Hulk Hogan, and then calling Austin a self-important egomaniac on the other. That's cute.

As a part of Steve Austin's fanbase, he didn't shit on me when he left. I didn't want to see what he had become. A man who had obviously lost his passion and drive that made him great. He was out there pulling a Hogan and just doing enough to get by and collecting money. He did his fans a favor, IMO.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#16 Posted on
Again, I don't think you can blame Hogan for "leaving the company" in bad shape. He was a part time wrestler from 1990 on. Vince promoted an Iraqi angle which hurt business. Steroid accusations. Sex scandal. Hogan didn't break open the Stamford vault, and then leap out a tenth story window screaming "to the Emerald City, fast as lightning" and land in a getaway car driven by Ed Leslie. He was pushed aside by Vince in favour of clods like Warrior who didn't draw flies.

As far as Hogan's egomania, I read his Torch interview and all you'd be surprised how logical he is on topics like his in-ring ability or holding others down. For all his faults, and there are many, he put over Warrior when he didn't want to, out over Goldberg, Luger, Arn Anderson, Ric Flair, Angle, Triple H, and Brock Lesnar all clean in his career. He didn't put Sting over clean, so I didn't include him. He got wins back over a lot of those guys but that's true of a lot of guys.

Austin has not jobbed cleanly once to anyone since Bret at Survivor Series 1996. I'm sorry, but people say he jobbed to Rock at Survivor Series, which is bullshit. That was a tag-match. If Triple H jobbing in tag-matches doesn't count, neither does that. Did he tap to the ankle lock at Unforgiven '01? Yes, while holding the ropes, thereby becoming a heel and making Angle look like a paper champion. That's not really putting someone over. And he got the belt back in 2 weeks. He also went home after losing the belt to Angle. This is the guy who used to beat up 5 people at a time. This is the guy who beat Booker T in a lumberjack match in which all the lumberjacks were fighting against him, cheating for Booker. (But Triple H is the one who buried him, right?) This is the guy who beat Ric Flair and the Big Show in a handicapped match. This is a guy who demanded another program with Undertaker earlier this year which produced a match beaten only in crapiness by Steiner/Hunter last week.

So let's not pretend Austin is any less of a politician than Hogan, or Triple H, or anyone else. Or for that matter any less arrogant. Please, please let's no infer he's some kind of great human being. I think I made an assload of good points, feul, in the previous post to counter your initial points---and you didn't touch on 80 percent of them and then decided to tell me I was cute. So if you want to debate let's debate. I just happen to think I'm right and you're wrong.






"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3269 days
Last activity: 3269 days
#17 Posted on
Let's just dive into a little bit of Hogan's ego, shall we. I can only scratch the surface without writing a novel.

Hogan sure did wonders for Ric Flair in WCW, man oh man but he lost to him in 99 so it makes it alright. He didn't humiliate Flair and have him running around in drag or beat him at every opportunity for 4 straight years.

It's not like Hogan ever went into business for himself in the ring. Oh wait, let's ask Vader what happened at SuperBrawl '95 where he went in thinking the finish was Power Bomb, pin. Yet, Hogan no-sold the Power Bomb and it ended up with a big schmozz. What about WCW's biggest ever PPV? When Hogan made Sting and Bret Hart look like complete morons?

Pick up a copy of Hogan's book and watch the heartfelt story about his encounter with a dieing cancer kid in Wembley at SummerSlam 92. Sure Hogan wasn't even on the show, he was in the US filming one of his bad movies but let's not let truth get in the way of a good story.

I never said Austin was a saint, he's not, he plays the game as much as everybody else. Austin not jobbing clean since 96 is totally inaccurate. He jobbed clean to Bret again in 97. Foley pinned him clean at SummerSlam 99. He put over HHH at No Mercy in 99 clean. Trips beat him again at No Way Out 2001. The foot under the ropes in the Angle match was never even acknowledged on WWF TV. RVD pinned him clean on Smackdown in late 2001.

For the original post, it wasn't Vince on the house shows wrestling drawing the crowds. It wasn't Vince wrestling on every PPV. Austin was Main Event over before the Vince feud even started. I give credit to Vince, he's a great performer and gave Austin the platform.

The kids and grandparents just weren't enough to take WWF to the promise land, sorry. Austin cursed a lot, that's what drunk rednecks do, they curse. He was a good promo man in WCW but you just can't market a guy in black trunks.

You acted as though wrestling didn't exist pre-Hogan and pre-Flair. Wrestling was in much better shape in 1984 then it was in 1994, that's for sure. You like to compare basketball players to wrestlers. If Larry Bird wants to come back and play for the Pacers, Reggie Miller should just share the spotlight with him? He should just shut up about how stupid a move that is?

Sometimes it's harder not to just fall in line, shut up, bottle everything up and collect your money.

If you want to look at Austin walking out as a pure political move, it was brilliant. He's got Vince in the palm of his hand from now on. Before, Vince could take advantage of him because he thought Austin would never ever leave his mighty company.

My point is, why should Steve Austin or anyone else for that matter be loyal to Vince McMahon? If you think Vince really cares about his wrestlers, just look at what he did to Bret, Dynamite, Pillman, Owen, Davey, and many others.
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 14 hours
Last activity: 11 hours
#18 Posted on
"If you think Vince really cares about his wrestlers, just look at what he did to Bret, Dynamite, Pillman, Owen, Davey, and many others."

Look at the list of names you just gave..Now look at Austin.
I think Austin will be fine
I have come to the conclusion a bit ago that I would no longer care about the truth behind Austin leaving, or care about him coming back.

It would be nice to see a (motivated) Austin again but I am not hoping for it or looking forward, anticipating etc..we'll see when he gets here. Any enthusiasm I have pretty much gets killed by the endless pro/against walking out stuff.

I just realised the same goes for the article..if the man "shoots" then he might say some bad stuff, he might not. All depends on what REALLY happened and on how he feels about how he behaved back in that period..
Now if he rants and says wicked stuff than everybody will be upset or shocked or just use it to prove their point about the current WWE situation.
If he rationalizes things and takes part of the blame, then people will claim it is all political and he isn't telling what he truely feels.

Just let him say what he has to say, and move on is the best I guess..






Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#19 Posted on
He lost to him and Arn Anderson in '95, and again in '99.
I don't think Hogan "buried" Ric Flair. Hogan was put on top in 1994. He was a huge aquisition. I don't know what your basing the idea that it was Hogan's idea for Flair to run around in drag on. He beat him a lot, but not all the time. There was only one major time when he jobbed to him, fine. You could say the same about Austin as it relates to Rock because if ever there was one star beating another star at "every opportunity" it's Austin beating Rock. The younger, more athletic Rock, by the way.

As for the Vader story, never heard it before. But I'll take your word for it. Although if Hogan were going to start shooting and pissing off an opponent, I doubt he'd select Vader as the guy to take liberties with. Just a thought there.

Hogan did make Sting and Bret look like idiots. I'm not defending the starrcade debacle. But should Nick patrick or whoever the referee was shoulder at least some of the blame?

I have a copy of Hogan's book, and I even got it signed. The story about the child I'm sure is accurate. He's got the place wrong, of course he wasn't on the Summerslam '92 card. But is it possible, at all, that he just mixed up a make-a-wish kid from another time in his life? He was their biggest requested celeb of the 1980's. Now we're going to start saying Hogan is using the cancer kiddies to secure his place on top of the company? That's bullshit. That's basically saying Hogan's a bad human being, which I don't think he is. Austin on the other hand is a wife-beating drunk.

You never said Austin is a saint, nor did I ever say Hogan was one. Hogan's pulled a lot of shit, but every card I've ever attended to see him wrestle he's, you know, actually wrestled on.

I was wrong, Austin did job again in 1997. Foley pinned him clean in '99, because Austin didn't want to job to Triple H so he lost to a transitional champ. That was another situation where ego created a shmoz. You could even call that Austin making Triple H look bad. I don't think when Rock runs down to the ring with a sledgehammer and misses and hits Austin instead of Triple H, that you would call that "clean". No Way Out, Austin loses to triple H in the 2/3 falls. When they ran across the ring at each other and bashed into one another and Triple H fell on top of Austin in the flukiest way possible? Yeah, I remember that and I don't count it. RVD's win? That was when Angle came out and taunted Austin,(with fucking PYRO for God's sake) and RVD rolled him up from behind.

There are jobs. But they don't really put anyone over. Hogan against Warrior and Brock and Goldberg and Angle and Triple H clearly send the message "hey, this guy really beat me". Rock put over Lesnar this way. Austin, since those jobs to Bret in 1997, has not sent that message with a loss. That's why I don't want him back.

Austin is not Reggie Miller. He's more like Vince Carter. In other words, he's supposed to be a major franchise player but he gets injured more than he plays, and mostly sits at the sidelines sulking. Austin wasn't exactly popping huge ratings before Hogan and Nash and Hall got here.

Vince is not a great humanitarian but so far, he didn't ask Austin to do anything unreasonable. With Bret, he asked him job in Canada and Bret had a contractual right to say no. Dynamite was told to job the tag-belts with a mangled back and was never the same. Owen was asked to perform a stunt he didn't know how to do.

Your comparing these situations to asking Austin to job to Brock? I don't think that's fair.

As for Pillman and Davey, they weren't treated badly by McMahon. Pillman was taken off the road more than once because he was severely addicted to painkillers. He went back on the road and, with an already weakened heart, Brian Pillman died. But Vince didn't kill him. Davey was let go at his request, nearly killed thanks to WCW, and when he was lying in a hospital bed waiting to die, Vince offered him a job. Once again, we saw a guy come on the road, but prove himself unable to handle the lifestyle and end up on all kind of painkillers. How is this Vince "not caring". I don't think Vince is evil, he a businessman. You don't think Bill Gates would let people die for his empire?

Anyway, I don't want to lose focus. I'm just saying Austin isn't any better than Hogan when it comes to the politics. Guys like Warrior and Goldberg built their careers off wins over Hogan. Austin just hasn't done that kind of job for anyone.



(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 27.1.03 0506)


"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

Since last post: 2417 days
Last activity: 2417 days
#20 Posted on
Just want to say I don't know where this Austin not jobbing stuff comes from. Out of all the top stars in the WWE during the history of Raw: Bret Hart, Rock, Triple H, Undertaker, Mankind, and Shawn Michaels. The only one Austin didn't job to is Shawn Michaels and they only wrestled twice.

The second point is that the only reason Hogan's jobs to Warrior and Goldberg were such a big deal is that Hogan never jobbed (at that time). If you have Hogan jobbing all the time, like he did last year, his power to put people over is greatly diminished.

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You kidding? How many 45ish guys with long hair, a four foot forehead and the word Sara tattooed on his neck do you think you have in the world?
- AWArulz, Undertaker down under (2006)
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