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The W - Sports that aren't Baseball, Football, Basketball, or Hockey - A question about technology in football
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TheBucsFan
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
Why isn't there an official on the sidelines who, every time a goal is scored, immediately rewinds a video, say, five seconds, and checks for offsides that wasn't awarded? When a goal is given, there is a stoppage in play anyway, so the argument that it interrupts the flow of play isn't valid. Just, instead of a restart at midfield, the defending team restarts at the spot of the offense, with no change in score. So what argument could there possibly be against this? Why doesn't this exist?
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pieman
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30


Sounds logical to me, but this is the same sport that doesn't have a time clock visible to the participants either, right?











Zeruel
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.51
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    So what argument could there possibly be against this? Why doesn't this exist?


The going argument is that the ref's decision is final, and if he, or his assistants, didn't see something (offsides, flopping "simulation", or an actual foul), then it didn't happen.

It is like with baseball, FIFA seems to WANT the "human element" as part of the games.



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thecubsfan
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.31
There's also a FIFA theme of (attempting to) have the same rules for the sport universally thru all countries and levels. Instant replay technology in some places and not others goes against that.

They are adding goal line replays, which seems just as obvious but have been rejected previously for the same reasons.

(edited by thecubsfan on 23.4.13 1829)


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TheBucsFan
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
Yeah but this goal line technology, for example, is only being required in FIFA-sanctioned games - i.e., World Cup contests. Right? Surely FIFA can't mandate that goal-line technology be implemented by every national association on the planet, there are some (many) national associations for whom that would just be too expensive to do in every stadium. Or maybe I'm wrong? I haven't paid too much attention to it.

And UEFA is the only one with those extra refs added behind the goal lines (what on Earth do they actually do? I cannot recall ever seeing one actually make a call), I believe. There are examples of rules that only apply in certain games, put on by certain organizations. So if it's a question of forcing smaller countries to have offsides replay available in all domestic games, that doesn't have to be the case.

Of course I'm aware of the argument about the "human element" and all that, but I just don't understand why that argument makes any sense in this particular case, where the fix is so apparent, so easy to implement, and so harmless to the nature of the game. Bayern scored a goal that was offsides by just the tiniest of margins tonight against Barcelona that at the time seemed massive, before we knew the full extent of the damage Bayern would do. It's so easy to prevent that from happening. Just implement it in World Cup and club international matches if the concern is that some national associations won't want to add it.

Sorry if I'm just stating the obvious here, but I just started thinking about it after that Bayern goal and it had never struck me before just how easy it would be to do this.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 23.4.13 1946)
Zeruel
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.51
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan

    Of course I'm aware of the argument about the "human element" and all that, but I just don't understand why that argument makes any sense in this particular case, where the fix is so apparent, so easy to implement, and so harmless to the nature of the game.


Depending on who you ask, the heads of FIFA are just as corrupt as the officials busted for match-fixing and taking bribes. Like in the NBA, it is very easy for a soccer ref to change the outcome of a game.

I think the goal-line cameras and reviews on all scoring should happen, but until the "old guard" is out of power, I do not think it will ever happen.




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TheBucsFan
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
The only argument I can see coming against this kind of replay is that it requires that guy on video to make a call of whether an offside decision contributed directly to the goal. For example, say a player is offside deep in the attacking third when he receives a pass, it doesn't get called, then that guy turns the ball over, then one of his teammates who was onside wins possession back in an attacking position and scores. In this example, the missed offside didn't necessarily lead directly to the goal, because it required the defender who won possession to then make a mistake and give it away, but the offside certainly put them in a better position to benefit directly from that mistake. So then the question becomes, how far back do you go to decide if an offside contributed to the build-up or not?

But we ask refs to make this kind of judgment often. Whether or not an offside player is active and influencing play is a pretty similar judgment call to this one. So I think asking the official to make that same judgment call with the help of video is no big deal.

(I'm thinking too much about this right now.)

(edited by TheBucsFan on 23.4.13 1948)
TheBucsFan
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
My apologies on the off-chance I've spoiled Barcelona/Bayern for anyone who had recorded it to watch after work or something, considering it happened in the middle of the work day across the US.
dMr
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Since: 2.11.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.67
The other argument against goal line technology in the past was that they weren't convinced the technology was good enough.

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Just implement it in World Cup and club international matches if the concern is that some national associations won't want to add it.
It might not be affordable to some nations/clubs which would leave you with FIFA or UEFA having to pay for it and historically neither organisation has enjoyed parting with money. Goal line technology is being introduced in some competitions now though. I forget which ones, mostly because the number of "did it cross the line" scenarios that crop up is so vanishingly small that I honestly don't care that much. I'm not against having it or anything, I just think it's a situation that hardly ever arises.

Using replay for offsides would be a mess IMO. If you *only* use it when a goal's scored then what do you do about a situation where a player's wrongly flagged offside when clean through on goal? You could end up with replay being used to take away a goal from a team, then later in the same game *not* being used to help them when they were denied a clear goal scoring opportunity. It would leave you with linesmen being reluctant to ever flag for offside and leaving it up to replay, but then what do you do if they (wrongly) don't flag for offside and the player running through wins a free kick or corner from which his team score? Is that offside reviewable? I can't see any way this doesn't lead to a lot more stoppages.

I've always thought the easiest solution would be to adopt the NFL approach of giving a team a number of challenges per game, with irrefutable evidence needed to overturn the call on the field. Win the challenge and you keep it. Lose it and you lose a substitution.

    Originally posted by Zeruel
    It is like with baseball, FIFA seems to WANT the "human element" as part of the games.
I'm also kind of on board with this line of thinking, but I'm old-fashioned that way.
TheBucsFan
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
Thanks, you raise good points. I don't immediately have many good counterpoints, but I have to believe there is a compromise somewhere in there that will work. I understand why it's not as black and white as I at first portrayed it, but right now teams get credit for goals that shouldn't stand all the time, so injustice exists aplenty in the current situation, thus pointing out injustices that could occur with replay doesn't sway me. I still think using video would result in fewer, even if it didn't eliminate all of them. I don't immediately have a response to your offside-leads-to-a-free kick hypothetical, a challenge system is a good idea I think, but I want to think about it some more.

I also agree that the goal-line technology isn't as pressing a need as it seems. I think some kind of better way to judge the offside rule is a much more fruitful endeavor.
Captain Ferret
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Since: 14.9.02
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.44
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Why isn't there an official on the sidelines who, every time a goal is scored, immediately rewinds a video, say, five seconds, and checks for offsides that wasn't awarded? When a goal is given, there is a stoppage in play anyway, so the argument that it interrupts the flow of play isn't valid. Just, instead of a restart at midfield, the defending team restarts at the spot of the offense, with no change in score. So what argument could there possibly be against this? Why doesn't this exist?


In much the same way baseball resists rule changes, etc. Football is chock full of traditionalists who don't want technology involved at all with the officiating of the game (Michel Platini, head of UEFA is one such person).

A slightly more practical reason is that it's possible to be offside anywhere in your opponent's half of the field, you'd need several cameras, and therefore more time to review, and you might get an iffy angle, even after all that.

    Originally posted by pieman
    Sounds logical to me, but this is the same sport that doesn't have a time clock visible to the participants either, right?


I would point out that the clock never stops in football, so having a clock visible wouldn't be massively useful. Also, not knowing how much time is left is tremendously exciting.
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