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The W - Current Events & Politics - A new low for Republicans
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Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 6 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
I have been, at various times, a member of at least three different political parties. The e-mail addresses that I have used at the time reflect the political spam that I receive in them.

Today, I was in my Yahoo! account and decided that I would give the Republicans a chance. I read through their information every now and then to get a view of what they are telling their people, and what their hot button topics are.

Initially, I was pleased by what I saw.


    1) Please take a moment right now to fill out online the State of the Republican Party Survey for the RNC. I want you to be honest and candid in your answers -- there's no need to sugar-coat your responses after our Party's performances in the last two elections.

Ok, maybe this is good, I thought. I have shared the ideals of the Republican party in the past - maybe they really do want to hear from us and find out what we think. I'd like to tell them I disagree with their stances on USA Patriot, Homosexual marriage, the Constitution as a whole, and Police state tactics (Torture, secret prisons, Signing statements, Executive branch privelege, everything being a state secret).

As you can see, I don't agree with a lot of what the last adminstration did, and I was willing to go and let them know. I received this letter, as I do all of their e-mails, because I have given the Republicans money in the past.

Here are a few samples of the questions. This is some of the most manipulative, least honest polling I've ever seen.


    Part II. Domestic and Social Issues
    1. A recent national poll reported that nearly 25% of Americans want the government to pass more socialism. Do you agree or disagree?

    Agree
    Disagree
    Undecided


    2. Which do you believe creates more jobs for the American economy: Government Programs and Spending or The American Free Enterprise System?

    Government Programs and Spending
    The American Free Enterprise System
    Undecided


    3. The Obama Administration has proposed spending as much as $1.5 trillion to bail out the banking industry. Do you agree or disagree with this proposal?

    Agree
    Disagree
    Undecided


    4. Do you oppose so-called "card-check" legislation, which eliminates secret ballot elections during unionization drives and puts workers at risk of intimidation by labor bosses?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    5. Should Republicans unite to block new federal government bureaucracy and red tape that will crush future economic growth?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    6. Should Republicans in Congress oppose the new wasteful government spending programs passed in the recent "stimulus" bill by the Pelosi-Reid Democrats designed to "spread the wealth"?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    7. Do you agree that we must secure our borders to stop illegal immigration?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    8. Should we do everything we can to block Democrats who are trying to shut down conservative talk radio with the so-called "fairness doctrine"?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    9. Should we resist Barack Obama's proposal to spend billions of federal taxpayer dollars to pay "volunteers" who perform his chosen tasks?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    10. Should Republicans unite in opposition to judicial nominees who bring a personal, left-wing agenda on social issues to their jobs as judges?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    11. Should bureaucrats in Washington, DC be in charge of making your health care choices instead of you and your doctor?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    Part III. Homeland Security and Defense Issues
    1. If Barack Obama tries to gut the USA PATRIOT Act and other important laws that promote the safety and security of all Americans, should Republicans in Congress fight back?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    2. Should we stop Democrat leaders from cutting funding from our intelligence agencies or bringing back Clinton-era restrictions on inter-agency communications?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    3. Do you support the use of air strikes against any country that offers safe harbor or aid to individuals or organizations committed to further attacks on America?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    4. Should Republicans unite in support of full funding for border and port security when Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid try to make cuts in these areas?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    5. Do you think U.S. troops should have to serve under United Nations' commanders?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    6. Do you agree that our top military priority should be fighting terrorists?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    7. Should we fight military-cutting efforts in Congress, such as the proposal from liberal Barney Frank to slash the Pentagon budget by 25%?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided


    8. Even though Barack Obama pledged to meet personally with the likes of Raul Castro, Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, should Republicans continue to focus on supporting democratic movements in oppressive states like Cuba, Venezuela and Iran?

    Yes
    No
    Undecided



Ron Paul never sends me stuff like this. The Democrats don't send me stuff like this.




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Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 2 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
Ok, so where was I going?

Don't the Republicans see how disingenuous it is to set up a supposed feedback mechanism, and then use it for Push Polling?

I expect that to undecided people in an election. I'm shocked they continue the tactic to "their own" during the off-season.

Fear, uncertainty, doubt, and manipulation. That's what I see from the Republican party, from the outside.

What kind of positive changes are those of you still within the party seeing? Is there anything better than this out there, and am I being unfair judging them on the actions of Michael Steele in a fund raising letter?

(edited by Guru Zim on 27.3.09 1149)



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Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Wow. Couldn't they have made that a lot shorter by just saying:

1. Don't you think we've been right about everything the past eight years?

Yes
No
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 10 hours
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Y!:
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.50
I signed up for the Democrap stuff (cause I want to know what the bad guys are doing). DNC - go sign up, if you dare.

I get the same thing, plus spam from their buddies. (planned parenthood, Gay and Lesbian alliance and more.

so? Politics, that's how it works. Go, vote in the poll and disagree with them. I do, all the time. Of course, I mostly agree with that poll, anyway.



We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.


That the universe was formed by a fortuitous concourse of atoms, I will no more believe than that the accidental jumbling of the alphabet would fall into a most ingenious treatise of philosophy - Swift

CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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Y!:
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
Let's see YOUR answers. You're going to respond, right? You want them to know what you think?

If the only people who respond are already in the base, you'll see more polls written for the base.

I'll let you in on a secret - they are more interested in raising funds from you than hearing from you.

Anyway, it's funny that you bring this up - I'll have more on this in about 48 hours.



PeterStork
Sujuk








Since: 25.1.02
From: Chicagoland with Hoosiers, or "The Region"

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 1 day
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.65
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    so? Politics, that's how it works.


But maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe there should be rational, logical discussion of issues rather than pressure and baiting - from both sides. Neither major party impresses me with the way they do business, and just because that's how it's been done - and that the other guy does it that way - doesn't make it right.



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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 1 day
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Anyway, it's funny that you bring this up - I'll have more on this in about 48 hours.


It's a little early to announce your run in 2012.



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Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.28
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Don't the Republicans see how disingenuous it is to set up a supposed feedback mechanism, and then use it for Push Polling?

    I expect that to undecided people in an election. I'm shocked they continue the tactic to "their own" during the off-season.


See, I credit Americans with enough intelligence to see through push polls and considering BOTH parties do it ALL THE TIME I can hardly see how the audience or the timing has anything to do with propriety of push polling. I do, however, notice that one side always seems to be bitching about it. Maybe they think Americans are too stupid to think for themselves.

    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Fear, uncertainty, doubt, and manipulation. That's what I see from the Republican party, from the outside.


Arrogance, vengeance and hypocrisy. That's what I see from the Democratic party, from the outside. Wayyyyyyyy outside.
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 2 days
AIM:  
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
I'm not quite sure where you are placing me, for the record. I'm certainly not a die-hard liberal. In the last 20 years I've supported McCain as a registered Republican (not this last election), Dole, Bush (early first term, probably around 9/11) and only changed my registration to D for the first time ever for the Oregon primaries because I didn't like the prospect of Hillary Clinton getting the nomination through hijinx.

I'm more of a centrist.

On the D side right now, I see town hall meetings taking questions from the public, a My Barack Obama site that allowed me to try to speak my mind about the FISA issue and to ask the then Senator Obama to do something about it when elected. No one is pushing me on that side. I clearly don't agree with all of the Democratic party issues right now, but I don't feel like I'm getting used.

When I read something like this poll, which I started to fill out until I realized there were quesions I just couldn't answer due to how they were worded ("When did you stop beating your wife?") I stopped.

If you do want to discuss what I think about these questions, I'd be glad to answer them.

AWA - How do you feel about this kind of thing coming from your party? Wouldn't you also rather see a true discussion that this kind of tactic, or do you feel that push polling is important right now (to set the tone, unifying behind a message, other reason if you feel it?)

Can you guys give me examples of where I need to look to find the Dems doing this kind of thing? Like I said, I'm not going out of my way to find this stuff - this is just what I get in my "Republican" inbox on Yahoo. My libertarian and Democratic party inboxes don't get the same stuff from the official party (although I would argue ACLU and HuffPo is out there).

EFF for example is an organization that tells you what is going on, but without trying to panic you. Sadly, the news from them is usually depressing enough without adding to it.




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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 10 hours
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.50
Look, 48% or so of americans basically agreed with republicans and 52 with democrats in the recent election. It would have been much closer if it wasn't McCain, I think. He was nominated too early.

This stuff?

Part II. Domestic and Social Issues
1. A recent national poll reported that nearly 25% of Americans want the government to pass more socialism. Do you agree or disagree?

Agree
Disagree <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Undecided


2. Which do you believe creates more jobs for the American economy: Government Programs and Spending or The American Free Enterprise System?

Government Programs and Spending
The American Free Enterprise System <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Undecided


3. The Obama Administration has proposed spending as much as $1.5 trillion to bail out the banking industry. Do you agree or disagree with this proposal?

Agree
Disagree <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Undecided


4. Do you oppose so-called "card-check" legislation, which eliminates secret ballot elections during unionization drives and puts workers at risk of intimidation by labor bosses?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided


5. Should Republicans unite to block new federal government bureaucracy and red tape that will crush future economic growth?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided


6. Should Republicans in Congress oppose the new wasteful government spending programs passed in the recent "stimulus" bill by the Pelosi-Reid Democrats designed to "spread the wealth"?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided


7. Do you agree that we must secure our borders to stop illegal immigration?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided


8. Should we do everything we can to block Democrats who are trying to shut down conservative talk radio with the so-called "fairness doctrine"?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided


9. Should we resist Barack Obama's proposal to spend billions of federal taxpayer dollars to pay "volunteers" who perform his chosen tasks?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided


10. Should Republicans unite in opposition to judicial nominees who bring a personal, left-wing agenda on social issues to their jobs as judges?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< (and right wing too!)
No
Undecided


11. Should bureaucrats in Washington, DC be in charge of making your health care choices instead of you and your doctor?

Yes
No <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Undecided


Part III. Homeland Security and Defense Issues
1. If Barack Obama tries to gut the USA PATRIOT Act and other important laws that promote the safety and security of all Americans, should Republicans in Congress fight back?

Yes
No
Undecided <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


2. Should we stop Democrat leaders from cutting funding from our intelligence agencies or bringing back Clinton-era restrictions on inter-agency communications?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided


3. Do you support the use of air strikes against any country that offers safe harbor or aid to individuals or organizations committed to further attacks on America?

Yes
No <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Undecided


4. Should Republicans unite in support of full funding for border and port security when Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid try to make cuts in these areas?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided


5. Do you think U.S. troops should have to serve under United Nations' commanders?

Yes
No <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Undecided


6. Do you agree that our top military priority should be fighting terrorists?

Yes
No <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Undecided


7. Should we fight military-cutting efforts in Congress, such as the proposal from liberal Barney Frank to slash the Pentagon budget by 25%?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided


8. Even though Barack Obama pledged to meet personally with the likes of Raul Castro, Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, should Republicans continue to focus on supporting democratic movements in oppressive states like Cuba, Venezuela and Iran?

Yes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
No
Undecided

There you go. My answers

now
    Originally posted by Guru

    AWA - How do you feel about this kind of thing coming from your party? Wouldn't you also rather see a true discussion that this kind of tactic, or do you feel that push polling is important right now (to set the tone, unifying behind a message, other reason if you feel it?)


Steele's got to a: raise funds from the base, and b: see if the less dedicated still agree with the party basics. Maybe they don't. I really don't see a problem with it.

You want to see preconceived preplanned answers on the democrat side? watch countdown or hardball any night, go to the Kos or go to the post.

Hell, all politics is preconceived notions and lets see who agrees with it. I will always believe that government that is not specifically specified by the constitution is wrong (ie: no dept of education, energy, housing and urban development, ect), that government should be limited to our protection and the regulation of interstate commerce and that's about it.

    Originally posted by guru
    I have always been a centrist


please do not make me laugh. You have only expressed hardcore leftist ideas on this board. At least that I have ever seen. Unless you're keeping your centrist ideas off the board. Maybe you think you're your brother. He's a centrist, maybe a little center right. But mostly center. You're a lot left. Leftists who don't live in arizona love to support John McCain. Makes 'em feel like they are centrists.

(edited by AWArulz on 27.3.09 1800)

(edited by AWArulz on 27.3.09 1800)

We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.


That the universe was formed by a fortuitous concourse of atoms, I will no more believe than that the accidental jumbling of the alphabet would fall into a most ingenious treatise of philosophy - Swift

Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by AWArulz


    2. Which do you believe creates more jobs for the American economy: Government Programs and Spending or The American Free Enterprise System?

    Government Programs and Spending
    The American Free Enterprise System <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    Undecided



Isn't that what got us here today? I know I'm not as boned up on Macro/Micro Economics like others here but isn't the laissez-faire Capitalist free enterprise system that we're in help these ninja loans all collapse and tank the economy?

From my registered independent point of view, I wish there was more government control on things like this and more "spreading the wealth." I am for higher taxes on $200k+ earners and lower taxes on everyone else.

I like the Dems bigger government (hey, less government means less USDA inspectors and we know how that's going, right?), and the Repubs bigger military. Just because we reduce military spending, that doesn't mean people will leave us alone. (USS Cole, among others)

From the outside of both parties, I see the Republicans as right wing bible thumping, pro rich-white male, anti everything else, anti-choice, anti-LBGT, anti-union, pro-capitalism, war mongers, and the Dems as the opposite of that. Pro unions, pro-choice, pro-LBGT, but I basically see them as being defined as Anti-Republican without their own true identity. The 3rd parties are more well defined than the "We're bizarro-republicans!" Dems.

And for full disclosure '98 was my first election and I voted for what ever 3rd party won the coin flip in 98, Gore in 00, coin flip 3rd party in 04, and Obama, so I guess I'm an independent with a Socialist/liberal slant.




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George W. Bush - June 26, 2008, during a Rose Garden news briefing.
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 2 days
AIM:  
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
OK. So here are the questions I have a problem with:

#5: Should US Troops have to serve under UN Commanders?

How is this currently done in a joint operation? Is anyone proposing that we change it either way? Should the US always be in charge if we are involved in any way with an operation?

I suspect that the US Troops report to US Commanders, who are under advisement from UN Command.


#2. Which do you believe creates more jobs for the American economy: Government Programs and Spending or The American Free Enterprise System?

This isn't an either or in my opinion I say both. The military is a huge employer. The US Government is a huge employer. In a time when private companies are struggling, I think we need to help private companies survive if we can through tax breaks or loans, but it also helps when we surge our infrastructure repairs and spend public money. We have to make the investment anyway - why not spur what we can now to try to solidify things?

#4 : Do you oppose so-called "card-check" legislation, which eliminates secret ballot elections during unionization drives and puts workers at risk of intimidation by labor bosses?

Is this a fair assessment of what card check is?


#6: Should Republicans in Congress oppose the new wasteful government spending programs passed in the recent "stimulus" bill by the Pelosi-Reid Democrats designed to "spread the wealth"?

Wasteful like observing Mt. Redoubt, I'm sure. It's not like that's going to explode.

My problem here is that they don't say which programs are wasteful. Are they implying all of them are? Are we going back to the list that they called out Dems on in the SotU response?

8. Should we do everything we can to block Democrats who are trying to shut down conservative talk radio with the so-called "fairness doctrine"?

How seriously is this happening? The question implies (in my mind) that this is a party platform instead of talking about specific people who might be doing this. How widespread is this movement, and is it a party plank?

In my mind, I don't think anyone expects to shut down anyone else based on the fairness doctrine. This is just a boogeyman out there to scare people.

#1: It's worded horribly. I agree that this poll happened. I'm not in favor of socialism. What was called more socialism in this poll? Why not just ask are you in favor of socialism?

#7: Do you agree that we have to secure our borders to stop illegal immigration?

I think that's one approach, and I don't think it will fix the issue. I think strongly punishing employers and private citizens who benefit from illegal labor is a better approach.

Did you know in the Pacific Northwest children used to harvest berries? They got up at 4 in the morning and got on busses. Everyone I know of a certain age in Tillamook remembers this and probably did it. These people have character and work ethic. Are we better off now that this isn't happening, but we hire illegal aliens instead?

I have no idea what #9 refers to. If someone is choosing where we spend our money for Americorp or whatever it is called, that makes it bad? Who is supposed to pick?

#11 - Should beurocrats at an HMO make decisions instead of me and my doctor? If an HMO can work, why can't the government make an HMO? Government following the lead of private industry - not so bad.




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Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 299 days
Last activity: 293 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.89

    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    8. Should we do everything we can to block Democrats who are trying to shut down conservative talk radio with the so-called "fairness doctrine"?

    How seriously is this happening? The question implies (in my mind) that this is a party platform instead of talking about specific people who might be doing this. How widespread is this movement, and is it a party plank?

    In my mind, I don't think anyone expects to shut down anyone else based on the fairness doctrine. This is just a boogeyman out there to scare people.


Except, the only thing that the Democrats can come up with as a reason for bringing up the Fairness Doctrine fiasco is the expansive conservative talk radio market.

When they have tried to come up with a format of their own (see Air America) they have killed it off with bad host choices and bad business practices.

It's easier to just force people to listen to you via governmental action that to actually come up woth a working business model.



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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 444 days
Last activity: 444 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.94
Still love the 'informational questions' the DNC mailed to me last summer (I live in a 1 party town. Only way to vote local is to be a registered Democrat). After answering the exact opposite way of anything they believe, they left a space for What do you advise the Democrat running for President to do? I wrote forfeit. Didn't listen to me I guess. That's what I get for not writing a check back to Howard.
As for the Republican Party, they need to focus on the fact that if a state borders on an ocean, they are generally in a distinct minority. Also, the steamroller of socialism began during the latter days of the Bush Presidency, so a pox on both their houses.
As for #4 Guru, that is what card check is. Without the secret ballot, which was brought in so workers wouldn't be intimidated by their employers, as happened in the 19th and early 20th century, they now can be intimidated by those trying to form unions.
Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 417 days
Last activity: 377 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.24
For reference, here's the survey I just got from my local Representative. You tell me from the questions whether he's a Democrat or a Republican.

All questions are yes/no except number 7.



    1. Various financial rescue packages enacted in recent months have given the federal government unprecedented power over the affairs of private businesses, such as banks, auto manufacturers and other companies. As the economic crisis recedes, should such government involvement be lessened?

    2. The economic stimulus package which became law in February included a provision requiring construction materials and equipment used in its projects to be manufactured in the U.S. This has sparked complaints and threats from trading partners overseas. Do you support such "Buy American" provisions, even though some say they might cause retaliation against U.S. exports?

    3. American automobile makers are facing financial trouble and have sought more government assistance to avoid collapse, which could impact suppliers, dealers and others. Should taxpayer dollars be used to save these struggling companies?

    4. The President has announced his intent to reduce our troop presence in Iraq. Do you agree?

    5. As we are winding down our presence in Iraq, do you support the President's decision to increase the number of troops in Afghanistan?

    6. Tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003 will expire after 2010, unless extended through congressional action. Some are suggesting that reductions targeted at households with incomes above $250,000 should be ended to provide the government with more revenue. Do you think that affluent taxpayers should see their taxes increase in 2011?

    7. Health care reform remains a pressing issue. Because the government is sure to be involved in any solution, which do you believe is its most appropriate role?
    A. Taxpayer-funded insurance for all
    B. Government-mandated private health insurance coverage, with subsidies for low-income individuals
    C. Tax incentives to help individuals obtain private, market-based insurance
    D. Other

    8. Congress will likely consider legislation this year favored by unions that would require employers to recognize "card checks" in which a majority of employees sign a card in favor of unionization as a formal vote rather than by a secret ballot election. Do you think unions should be allowed to organize with card checks instead of a secret ballot election?

    9. With recent controversies surrounding the process for appointing U.S. senators by governors to fill vacancies, do you think that special elections should be required in all states to fill vacant Senate seats in the future?

    10. As funding for transportation is scarce, some discussion has focused on the use of tolls and other sources of revenue to complete projects. Do you support the imposition of tolls to fund highways in Wisconsin?
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 4 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    #5: Should US Troops have to serve under UN Commanders?

    How is this currently done in a joint operation? Is anyone proposing that we change it either way? Should the US always be in charge if we are involved in any way with an operation?

    I suspect that the US Troops report to US Commanders, who are under advisement from UN Command.


I've heard no such proposal, although President Obama's long range plan for Afghanistan may include a UN force. Or as part of a two-state solution in Israel. Historically, the US has been persnickety about allowing our forces to be commanded by non-Americans. (With some justification considering how much we pay in, imo.)


    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    #2. Which do you believe creates more jobs for the American economy: Government Programs and Spending or The American Free Enterprise System?

    This isn't an either or in my opinion I say both. The military is a huge employer. The US Government is a huge employer. In a time when private companies are struggling, I think we need to help private companies survive if we can through tax breaks or loans, but it also helps when we surge our infrastructure repairs and spend public money. We have to make the investment anyway - why not spur what we can now to try to solidify things?


Yeah, the problem with a worldwide recession/contraction is that you fall into a cycle of lower demand, followed by layoffs by businesses with lower sales, followed by less consumer spending because of unemployment, leading to still lower demand, more layoffs, even less spending - rinse, repeat. So if the private sector can't fix this, government spending can make up some of the gap by creating demand with public works projects. It's not an either/or, but we're still shedding about 600,000 jobs a month right now. Herbert Hoover tried a spending freeze after the Crash of '29. Didn't help the economy then by any measurement.

    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    #4 : Do you oppose so-called "card-check" legislation, which eliminates secret ballot elections during unionization drives and puts workers at risk of intimidation by labor bosses?

    Is this a fair assessment of what card check is?


As you might have guessed, no. The workers can still opt for a 'secret ballot' election if EFCA passes - but there would be an option where if 51% of the work force signs cards (forms) saying they want a union, there's a union. Sure, there's potential for union organizing shenanigans, but the pendulum has been on management's side for decades, and the labor movement has suffered.

And it's not like management hasn't used intimidation to keep unions out - there's an actual industry of union-busting consultants that are brought in when an election is called.

    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    #6: Should Republicans in Congress oppose the new wasteful government spending programs passed in the recent "stimulus" bill by the Pelosi-Reid Democrats designed to "spread the wealth"?

    Wasteful like observing Mt. Redoubt, I'm sure. It's not like that's going to explode.

    My problem here is that they don't say which programs are wasteful. Are they implying all of them are? Are we going back to the list that they called out Dems on in the SotU response?


I'm waiting to see how the new Republican budget proposal is scored by the OMB CBO. It apparently calls for income tax rates of 25% on $100,000 and up - and 10% on any income under that. Grover Norquist would be ecstatic, but discontinuing Social Security might not be too popular - I'll wait and see, but I don't think you can make that revenue work while maintaining current entitlements and defense spending, much less all the (relatively) small potatoes 'pork' projects Sen. McCain loves to rail about.

    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    8. Should we do everything we can to block Democrats who are trying to shut down conservative talk radio with the so-called "fairness doctrine"?

    How seriously is this happening? The question implies (in my mind) that this is a party platform instead of talking about specific people who might be doing this. How widespread is this movement, and is it a party plank?

    In my mind, I don't think anyone expects to shut down anyone else based on the fairness doctrine. This is just a boogeyman out there to scare people.


Precisely. This one is totally ginned up by the GOP - no one is talking about killing the fairness doctrine, the internet has pretty much made it a moot point anyway.

I can see a future battle about trying to limit ownership of multiple platforms (tv station, radio station, newspaper) by any company in one market. Particularly as we are getting down to one major paper in all but a handful of cities now.

    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    #7: Do you agree that we have to secure our borders to stop illegal immigration?

    I think that's one approach, and I don't think it will fix the issue. I think strongly punishing employers and private citizens who benefit from illegal labor is a better approach.

    Did you know in the Pacific Northwest children used to harvest berries? They got up at 4 in the morning and got on busses. Everyone I know of a certain age in Tillamook remembers this and probably did it. These people have character and work ethic. Are we better off now that this isn't happening, but we hire illegal aliens instead?


Wasn't W. Bush in favor of the 'path to citizenship' plan? If nothing else, Bush, Rove and Cheney could count - and notice that if they start losing Hispanics like they do African-Americans.. you end up with an electoral map like we saw last November. The current Republican base doesn't appear to see it that way.

    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I have no idea what #9 refers to. If someone is choosing where we spend our money for Americorp or whatever it is called, that makes it bad? Who is supposed to pick?


They mean ACORN, another favorite Republican bogeyman. What they won't tell you is that in the last 10 years, there were about 35 convictions of actual voter fraud. Nationwide. With John Ashcroft, Roberto Gonzalez and Bush's entire justice department at their disposal. Just because someone turns in a voter registration card for "Mickey Mouse", or the offensive line of the Steelers - you can't actually get someone in a mouse suit into a polling place.

More voters generally favors the Dems, fewer voters generally favors the GOP - so Republicans will always be looking to disenfranchise people.

    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    #11 - Should beurocrats at an HMO make decisions instead of me and my doctor? If an HMO can work, why can't the government make an HMO? Government following the lead of private industry - not so bad.


Here's the billion dollar question - it's a strawman argument because care decisions under the current system isn't between you and your doctor - any more than it would be under Universal Government Care. The question is do you want to pay those bureaucrats, and have the tough decisions made by HMO managers of for-profit corporations, or do you want to pay less, and have the tough decisions made by a medical panel looking to manage the government's expenses?

By now most everyone out there has a story, or knows someone that didn't get something covered by their existing insurance. You just can't sustain the present system when premiums go up 4-8% every year, and we aren't covering everyone as it is.

Unchanged, the future of US healthcare is higher premiums, bigger deductibles, less coverage, more people dropping into the uninsured pool, emergency rooms even more overtaxed than they are now. Virtually no expert fundamentally disputes this, which is why so many players are at the table now.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

(Whew. And now for the conservative response?)

Edit: Replaced OMB/Office of Management & Budget with CBO/Congressional Budget Office for scoring the new GOP budget.

(edited by TheOldMan on 27.3.09 2346)


Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.54
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    Except, the only thing that the Democrats can come up with as a reason for bringing up the Fairness Doctrine fiasco is the expansive conservative talk radio market.


The Fairness Doctrine was the FCC's hollow attempt to institute some responsibility to the commercial (and non-commercial) corporations who acquired a public resource (the airwaves) for commercial (and non-commercial) profit. These frequencies are not owned by these corporations - no matter how much that distinction was blurred over the years.

    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    When they have tried to come up with a format of their own (see Air America) they have killed it off with bad host choices and bad business practices.


The Pacifica Radio Network has been around since 1949, and is only floundering because of stupid political battles that distract it from the local and volunteer focus on which the success of the network was built.

NPR has been around since 1970 - and my guess is that no one would dare call NPR a conservative radio network (no matter how much their internal structure dictates otherwise).

The idea that commercial viability is the only measure by which success can be measured is largely responsible for the severe damage the medium has suffered in the last 5 years.

(edited by Leroy on 27.3.09 2120)



We all have ways of coping. I use sex and awesomeness.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1235 days
Last activity: 1031 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Ok, so where was I going?

    Don't the Republicans see how disingenuous it is to set up a supposed feedback mechanism, and then use it for Push Polling?

    I expect that to undecided people in an election. I'm shocked they continue the tactic to "their own" during the off-season.

    Fear, uncertainty, doubt, and manipulation. That's what I see from the Republican party, from the outside.

    What kind of positive changes are those of you still within the party seeing? Is there anything better than this out there, and am I being unfair judging them on the actions of Michael Steele in a fund raising letter?

    (edited by Guru Zim on 27.3.09 1149)

The "poll" isn't a poll and it isn't designed to be a poll.

It's a mechanism to:
1) Make sure your email address is still accurate; and,
2) Raise money

That's it. The poll is useless and unscientific and the answers don't matter.

All sides do this, so it's nothing really new under the sun.
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 30 days
Last activity: 20 hours
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.06
Hey, Grimis is 100% right! Ask me if I thought I'd ever say that in Weinerboard, 2003.

As a very pro-Union, pro-labor guy, I will tell you I think card check has a big problem. And that problem is that not all unions are created equal - there's a lot of them out there that are essentially bankrolled by management to sign sweetheart deals and collect a paycheck. It's really, really easy for an employeer to just give out union cards for one of these unions as part of a general hire or HR packet, and tell you to sign them along with everything else. 51% of people do that, and all of a sudden you're represented by a bullshit union who you never hear word 1 from, and signs whatever the company gives them. And getting out of, or taking over, that bullshit union is much, much more difficult - legally and organizing wise - than unionizing and non-union industry. Having an election in there provides a check on this.

In a perfect world, cards and then an election should suffice. But it's not a perfect world, and companies do not play by the rules, and the labor-management balance has been heavily tilted to management for the past 30 years. Union are trying to gain an advantage with the card check thing, but I worry that they're going to just end up giving management another shady way to keep their workers unorganized and in the dark.



www.allcitynewyork.com
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 22 hours
AIM:  
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.85
Wait, you read your spam? I usually just mark it as junk. Frankly, if I want news on what any political party is up to, giving them my e-mail address (or phone number, home address, SSN, library card, etc.) is the last way to get it. Sure, it might be straight from the horse's mouth, but have you ever smelled a horse's breath?

And, not to dissuade anybody from believing what they believe (no matter how much I don't believe it), the questions are loaded. The inclusion of adjectives in most of the questions I've read put a distinct slant on what answer you could possibly give.

Let's have a look see.

2. Which do you believe creates more jobs for the American economy: Government Programs and Spending or The American Free Enterprise System?

Government Programs and Spending
The American Free Enterprise System
Undecided

Okay, now here it is with no slanting.

2. Which do you believe creates more jobs for the American economy: Government Programs or Free Enterprise.

When you include the word "spending" it makes it sound like it's wasted money (to whit, it may or may not be depending on your favorite color). I spent money, I bought something; same statements, very different meanings. Furthermore, the inclusion of American and System paint it as the only American option. One would have to presume that said Government Programs are American in nature (you were expecting Malaysian?), but not including that as part of the question gives it a slant.

Here's another.

5. Should Republicans unite to block new federal government bureaucracy and red tape that will crush future economic growth?

Again, only a schmuck would be in favor of anything that will crush future economic growth (See: the war in Iraq, the original idiots that thought the bailout was a good idea last year prior to the election). An example of 'new federal government bureaucracy and red tape' would have been nice.

Well, imagine if the question read like this:

5. Should politicians unite to prevent activity that will crush future economic growth?

OR

5. Should we do something to prevent crushing the future of economic growth?

There's no concievable way anybody with a reading level (pick one, any one) should answer 'no' to this. No matter who or what is doing it.

Lastly (or firstly), there was this gem.

1. A recent national poll reported that nearly 25% of Americans want the government to pass more socialism. Do you agree or disagree?

You know what? What if I disagree with the recent national poll and believe it was actually 27.55332456998352115%. Either that or I do agree that a recent national poll reported this information. According to the syntax of the question itself, those are your answer choices.

Here goes nothing:

1. Do you agree or disagree that the government should pass more socialism?

...wait, that's still terrible syntax. Passing socialism makes no sense. No Child Left Behind was socialistic legislature, not socialism. Expanding the role of the Executive branch through USA Patriot is a sign of socialism through the government getting inflated for the benefit of the average joe (where's your free enterprise now?), but it certainly isn't socialism.

2. Do you agree or disagree that the government should pass legislature that is more socialistic?

There you go. And you know what? It's easier for you to put your own viable opinion into whether you disagree or not rather than put up with gobbledygook.



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
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