The W
Views: 99103368
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Color chart | Log in for more!
21.9.07 1327
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Would an "Invasion" angle work now?
This thread has 10 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
(8082 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (17 total)
AJ_Levy
Mettwurst
Level: 29

Posts: 89/162
EXP: 139188
For next: 8698

Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3838 days
Last activity: 3835 days
#1 Posted on 14.9.02 0734.01
Reposted on: 14.9.09 0735.19
What made the original nWo angle so special? Why was it that the first incarnation worked so well and and re-hashes, by both WWF/WWE and WCW have failed so miserably? Yeah, the shock heel turn of Hulk Hogan played a part, but he was involved in a couple of reincarnations of it (nWo in WWE, nWo black and white, nWo A-team after re-uniting with the Wolfpack) and each time it failed miserably. Was it Hall and Nash? Or was it the fact that Scott Hall, with no prior warning or notice, "just showed up" on Nitro one night as an "Outsider from the WWF" and announced he was taking over?

Which got me thinking, why not have, say, Rob Van Dam, "just show up" on Smackdown one night with no prior warning, grab the mike, and announce that he was sent by Eric Bischoff to take over Raw? This could build to a "Raw" faction on Smackdown that comes in through the crowd and attacks SD! wrestlers, with some SD! wrestlers in need of new gimmicks joining the stable. Aside from joining Eric Bischoff on Raw to gloat about their latest attack on SD!, these wrestlers would pretty much stay exclusively on SD!

Certainly, having Spike Dudley start randomly appearing on SD! as part of a "Raw" stable would create a lot more interest than having him be recruited to SD!.

Of course, this could also work in reverse with various SD! wrestlers creating a stable on Raw, and pulling off a "hostile internal takeover". And since the invaders stay mainly on the show they are invading, you could maintain similar numbers of wrestlers on both shows, while presenting the idea that one GM has more superstars than the other.

If the invasion aspect is what was so magic about the original nWo angle, could something similar work now as a part of the brand extension?
Promote this thread!
Scorpio
Boudin rouge
Level: 48

Posts: 301/525
EXP: 815691
For next: 7857

Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 3833 days
Last activity: 3784 days
#2 Posted on 14.9.02 0739.36
Reposted on: 14.9.09 0742.57

Uh, I think we are way too early in the split for that to happen yet. Maybe in a year or so, sure. But I have a hard enough time of keeping track of who is on which roster, and who jumped this last week (CRASH FUCKIN' HOLLY) that creating stables on the only show would just confuse the issue more for me.

And if/when this does happen, I would love to know why the loyalists from the show wouldn't just wipe the floor with the invaders.
Sterling Golden
Cotechino
Level: 21

Posts: 12/79
EXP: 46993
For next: 2951

Since: 17.6.02
From: Silk City

Since last post: 2429 days
Last activity: 2416 days
#3 Posted on 14.9.02 0840.18
Reposted on: 14.9.09 0842.38
Over the past year and 1/2, WWE's writing staff have proved themselves inept when it comes to the major "Concept" angle. For example, they blew the WCW-WWF battle. They blew the nWo return, although there wasn't much gas left in the tank for that one. The "Brand Extension" has only been saved by Bishoff (Whatever became of MatRatz? I envision 6 12 year-olds doing high spots in a mall north of Calgary). So, do I think an invasion would work? No. I think if a Russo was there to come up with the "Big Invasion Concept", and others were charged with developing that, it could work. But not now.
Tom Dean
Bockwurst
Level: 50

Posts: 495/573
EXP: 910398
For next: 36926

Since: 30.8.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3274 days
Last activity: 2644 days
AIM:  
#4 Posted on 14.9.02 0947.09
Reposted on: 14.9.09 0948.10
Honestly, I think that would be tremendously lame, and that's why I am not as into the Bischoff-Steph battles as most others seem to be, because I don't know where else it goes. (Acknowledging freely that Bischoff's character is a hell of a lot of fun.)
WhoBettahThanDeion
Bockwurst
Level: 51

Posts: 468/583
EXP: 959139
For next: 54806

Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 4352 days
Last activity: 4188 days
#5 Posted on 14.9.02 1051.55
Reposted on: 14.9.09 1052.48
Invasion angles are lame now anyways. Been there, done that. It doesn't work anymore. I think Thursday's show was about as well as a short term angle can be booked and look forward to seeing that play out in future episodes (in terms of Rico and Chuck and Billy's character, as well as FINALLY seeing Three Minutes interfere). I don't think invasion angles work anymore. The best chance for one in the WWE was the resurgance of the nWo, and I think the first month worked. Everything after was REALLY downhill. I just think the nWo basically did everything possible with the whole invasion, that and we've seen that Vince refuses in these situations to make his own company look weak in any way (look at the Invasion, WWF NEVER lost! Best part about the nWo? They destroyed WCW).

I don't see the GM battle as an invasion storyline either, and have been entertained so far. I can't wait to see what happens after the events of Thursday as now Velocity superstars where all turned into real players in one segment.

(edited by WhoBettahThanDeion on 14.9.02 0853)
AJ_Levy
Mettwurst
Level: 29

Posts: 90/162
EXP: 139188
For next: 8698

Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3838 days
Last activity: 3835 days
#6 Posted on 14.9.02 1107.01
Reposted on: 14.9.09 1118.05

    Originally posted by Tom Dean
    Honestly, I think that would be tremendously lame, and that's why I am not as into the Bischoff-Steph battles as most others seem to be, because I don't know where else it goes. (Acknowledging freely that Bischoff's character is a hell of a lot of fun.)


Well look, between nWo invading WCW, nWo invading WWE, Japanese wrestlers invading WCW, and WCW / ECW invading WWF, or ECW invading WWF, have the invaders ever won. And there's a ton of other ways it could be done that we haven't seen before.

As for the comment on what WWE would loose, the answer is nothing. Unlike when nWo or WCW or ECW invaded, they'd have nothing to loose. It wouldn't be someone else's fed taking over Vinny Mac's, it would be Vinny mac's own taking over his own.

It is also a way to hold off the necessity of the inevitable Raw Vs Smackdown angle for a while.

Kayfabe wise, Bischoff has used stables to control his own fed, why not someone else's?

Just some thoughts.
NickBockwinkelFan
Frankfurter
Level: 57

Posts: 127/773
EXP: 1449292
For next: 36645

Since: 10.4.02
From: New York City, NY

Since last post: 890 days
Last activity: 3 days
#7 Posted on 14.9.02 1215.47
Reposted on: 14.9.09 1216.19

    Originally posted by Sterling Golden
    (Whatever became of MatRatz? I envision 6 12 year-olds doing high spots in a mall north of Calgary).


They already have this--it's TNA!

Bischoff has been the saving grace of this "new" GM angle. They really should've brought somebody else in to GM Smackdown, because how are you going to put any heel heat on Bischoff when the person he's fucking with is Stephanie. She generates absolutely no sympathy, she's a monster heel who has a megaton of heat, everyone loves to hate her.

I think the main problem with the "brand extension" is that in the WWF vs WCW days, most people loved one and hated the other (or clearly had a stylistic preference). With Raw vs Smackdown, there is no way to make us think that these are two separate entities. Even the casual fan, knows that there's no more WCW, only Vince. On Smackdown, I like Angle, Eddie, Rey and Hogan. On Raw I like RVD, Flair and Booker. They are both WWF and I'm not going to watch one and not the other, like in the old days (1998).

The brand extension is just a hoax being perpetrated against the shareholders who don't subscribe to the Torch (probably 90%).

Note to Michael Cole and Tazz: When Stephanie is getting beat down, don't yell, "Stephanie isn't a wrestler, dammit!" In one of the innumerable hideous Steph angles shoved down our throats the past couple of years--she was the Women's Champion for four months.

Jaguar
Knackwurst
Level: 107

Posts: 827/3273
EXP: 12732717
For next: 358636

Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 167 days
Last activity: 167 days
#8 Posted on 14.9.02 1229.01
Reposted on: 14.9.09 1229.01
Well remember, she was booked to be a non-wrestler women's champ, trying to duck out of matches the whole time and always needing help from HHH/DX to win. So yes, she's not a wrestler.

-Jag

Except for that one Trish/Steph match that actually rocked. But that's the exception.
asteroidboy
Andouille
Level: 91

Posts: 340/2241
EXP: 7214632
For next: 254309

Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1397 days
Last activity: 305 days
#9 Posted on 14.9.02 1402.55
Reposted on: 14.9.09 1408.34
I don't think it's time yet. When Undertaker showed up on Smackdown, I got a little twinge of, "Hey, Taker's switched shows!" But they need to get more separation.

Going back to the WCW/ECW invasion... the more I think about it, the more I think about what a wasted opportunity. Even with the talent that they had.... why not just have the ECW guys show up and beat the shit out of everyone with chairs?? Have Dreamer work over Vince with a Kendo stick and Shane gets a Van Daminator. Bubba bomb Steph through a table... something that would've established interesting conflict.

Instead, we got crap.
Santa Sangre
Bockwurst
Level: 51

Posts: 112/603
EXP: 990506
For next: 23439

Since: 21.6.02
From: Germany

Since last post: 439 days
Last activity: 326 days
#10 Posted on 14.9.02 1535.19
Reposted on: 14.9.09 1536.57

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    I don't think it's time yet. When Undertaker showed up on Smackdown, I got a little twinge of, "Hey, Taker's switched shows!" But they need to get more separation.

    Going back to the WCW/ECW invasion... the more I think about it, the more I think about what a wasted opportunity. Even with the talent that they had.... why not just have the ECW guys show up and beat the shit out of everyone with chairs?? Have Dreamer work over Vince with a Kendo stick and Shane gets a Van Daminator. Bubba bomb Steph through a table... something that would've established interesting conflict.

    Instead, we got crap.



If Vince wasn't going to let WCW get over you know goddamn well he isn't going to hype ECW either. The whole barrying of those two promotions still makes me sick.
Phantom
Frankfurter
Level: 57

Posts: 179/777
EXP: 1464317
For next: 21620

Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 2343 days
Last activity: 2320 days
#11 Posted on 14.9.02 1547.31
Reposted on: 14.9.09 1551.17
Part of the problem in the initial WCW/ECW invasion was ego. As a rule, the WCW guys were booked like major chumps, and were almost always seen as inferior to the WWF guys. The WWF had a chance to push these guys as major threats, but they couldn't get any of them to go over the established stars. Booker T was the most obvious example. He was the incoming WCW champion, and he was squashed by the Rock twice.

They were also kinda screwed by a lack of strong heels coming in. Booker was the only main-event WCW guy coming in. They could have had RVD as a heel, but he just couldn't wrap his head around the concept of trying to get the crowd to boo him and kept trying to do face things.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst
Level: 104

Posts: 387/3059
EXP: 11531127
For next: 331038

Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1955 days
Last activity: 1889 days
#12 Posted on 15.9.02 0548.04
Reposted on: 15.9.09 0559.01
They needed only to do one thing differently to make the InVasion work: have Paul Heyman as the sole leader of the Alliance. Pure GOLD. Instead it became another episode of McMahon Family Mayhem.

And the first time I've actually thought "Whoa! BIG TIME invasion!" during the split was for the wedding angle this week. That was just so birlliantly executed, what with Bisch being disguised and all, it actually made him appearing on SmackDown seem important.
GodEatGod
Boudin rouge
Level: 47

Posts: 111/502
EXP: 761885
For next: 4324

Since: 28.2.02

Since last post: 34 days
Last activity: 10 days
#13 Posted on 15.9.02 0650.35
Reposted on: 15.9.09 0651.07
TOtally unrelated I know, but oldschoolhero, where did you take a Pulp Fiction char quiz? That I've gotta do... :)
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst
Level: 104

Posts: 389/3059
EXP: 11531127
For next: 331038

Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1955 days
Last activity: 1889 days
#14 Posted on 15.9.02 1247.02
Reposted on: 15.9.09 1249.21
The address is www.pyrrha.org/pulp. Give it a whirl.
ekedolphin
Scrapple
Level: 132

Posts: 1073/5387
EXP: 26919438
For next: 212566

Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 95 days
Last activity: 4 days
#15 Posted on 16.9.02 0558.23
Reposted on: 16.9.09 0558.24
It's my belief that the WCW invasion of the WWF, like the nWo invasion of the WWF, could have been successful if they'd been booked properly. But Vince absolutely refused to let anything WCW/nWo get over against anything WWF.

Just for a couple of examples. Instead of bothering to build characters for their existing WCW/ECW roster or buying out the contracts of more-recognized WCW stars (such as Hogan, Sting, Flair, Nash, Goldberg, Steiner, or Jarrett), the WWF ran with the InVasion for a little while before having Stone Cold Steve Austin join the Alliance. Well whoop-dee-doo, now we have the WWF Champion as the de facto “leader” of WCW. Anyone else see a problem with that, when the top guy in WCW doesn't give a shit about the WCW Title?

So instead of the WCW invasion “being all about the WCW Superstars”, it became all about Stone Cold Steve Austin. RVD was an unexpected bonus to the InVasion, but he was an ECW guy. Hell-- in the battle that decided whether WCW would live on or be destroyed, only one Team Alliance member was an actual identifiable WCW Superstar! (Booker T.) The Team Alliance team at Survivor Series was Stone Cold Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Shane McMahon of all people, Rob Van Dam and Booker T. So much for all the talk about “we're gonna keep the brand alive, we're not just gonna put it on a shelf and bury it.” Whatever.

The nWo invasion started off decently enough for the first two days. They tried convincing everyone they were there to help the WWF, but no one believed them. (Makes you wonder what would've happened if they had believed them, no? Maybe they were put off by the strange armageddon-like nWo Titantron video.) During their first two days in WWE, they beat up Steve Austin and had him arrested the following night, and just about ended The Rock's career. Good start if you ask me.

Then on SmackDown, the shit-fest began. Austin got to Hall and simply beat the shit out of him, while Hogan and Nash cowered in the back. They might have been able to salvage this with a Hall face turn-- “Why the hell didn't you guys come out to help me?”-- but nothing doing. They just made it the Steve Austin Show once again, and made the nWo look like pussies. What's more, the “who among us could be an nWo member?” angle that made the original nWo so successful never materialized. Before Shawn Michaels, the only new voluntary nWo members were former members-- X-Pac and The Big Show. Anyone who couldn't see The Big Show's nWo turn coming a million miles away was either stupid or didn't watch WCW back in '97.

Both invasion angles could have been successful (yes, even the “three old men” in the nWo, because of the possibility of a recruiting drive), but because of bad writing, it didn't happen. Damn it, I want to be one of the idiots in the back writing this crap... I could've done this so much better.

But it's too late baby, now, it's too late. Though we really did try to make it...
redsoxnation
Scrapple
Level: 152

Posts: 280/7534
EXP: 43584712
For next: 717050

Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 447 days
Last activity: 447 days
#16 Posted on 16.9.02 0945.45
Reposted on: 16.9.09 0945.45

    >Note to Michael Cole and Tazz: When Stephanie is getting beat down, don't yell, "Stephanie isn't a wrestler, dammit!" In one of the innumerable hideous Steph angles shoved down our throats the past couple of years--she was the Women's Champion for four months.







Or, let us not forget her going over Flex in a match. And, most disgusting of all, her getting into a World Title match that would be Jericho's only rematch.
The Vile1
Lap cheong
Level: 80

Posts: 8/1694
EXP: 4624657
For next: 158332

Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 1981 days
Last activity: 1712 days
#17 Posted on 16.9.02 1019.06
Reposted on: 16.9.09 1019.06
Hey what about when Shane actually declared an Invasion on WWF? I mean when does anyone ever declare an invasion? Isn't the point of an invasion that its supposed to be like a suprise, unexpected attack? Its just that when he said "Its time for WCW to invade WWF!" just sounded stupid.

No more Invasion angles please.
ALL ORIGINAL POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW AVAILABLE
Thread ahead: Mysterio a threat and other ramblings about the ppv card...
Next thread: The Ultimate in Fashion
Previous thread: Rob Van Dam Video Package
(8082 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Would an "Invasion" angle work now?Register and log in to post!

The W™ message board - 7 year recycle

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim
This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.394 seconds.