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22.11.07 2033
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Vote Of NO Confidence
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Stephanie
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#1 Posted on 11.3.02 2316.05
Reposted on: 11.3.09 2321.09
Wow.

What a major mountain of crap that show was.

I guess I should be specific and say that I'm talking about the 3/11 RAW, as my above statement could be applied to almost any WWF programming these days.

We are six days from Wrestlemania - the crown jewel of the WWF - and there's no compelling reason for me to buy it.

Rock vs. Hogan? Just saw it tonight, during the 3 on 2 (nWo handicap?) tag team fight. Hogan won that match, and probably looked better tonight than he will during the one-on-one match Sunday.

Jericho vs. HHH? Not interested. The bits with Lucy the bulldog were predictable and unfunny - though, I must admit, I was expecting Jericho to drive off with Lucy tied to the limo ala "National Lampoon's Vacation". And Jericho's big plan, for when HHH comes back? He hits him in the leg with a sledgehammer! How clever!

Tag Team Action? Looks like the APA still get their title shot - with the Hardys and the Ambiguously Gay Duo added for extra color.

DDP vs. Christian? Exactly why did Christian turn heel on DDP now, for no solid reason whatsoever? Just another press on the InstaHeat button.

Women's action? Looks like we already saw the match tonight as well, after Stacy totally disappeared from the match. Weak kick by Lita - obviously another push of the InstaHeat button.

Another InstaFeud is generated for Edge and Booker T.

And then there's the matter of Ric Flair and Vince McMahon.

You remember Vince. He's been seen having people kiss his bare bum in the middle of the ring - he's run around the ring, whipping his bare bum with his play-by-play announcer's hat - he's been seen talking to himself in a mirror, raving how he's going to destroy the WWF - he brings in the nWo specifically to kill the WWF.

This same Vince McMahon calls an emergency board meeting and calls Ric Flair an embarrassment for punching a "fan" on the 3/7 edition of Smackdown! and being hauled away in cuffs. (Of course, we all know that the "fan" and Vince will be found to be in cahoots - but that's a later "angle".) The board, ignoring all of Vince's activities of recent months, gives him a vote of confidence - unanimous, no less. And Flair doesn't say a damn thing, not until after the decision is made. We'll have a "re-evaluation" after Wrestlemania, of course - but who cares?

The WWF once was known for their strong storytelling, but their weak cruiserweight action. The WCW was known for strong cruiserweight action, but poor scripting and flagrant excesses. The merger of the WWF and the WCW has produced a beast with the worst features of both - bad in-ring action, poor storytelling, and flagrant excesses (demolishing of ambulances with semis? the promoter's daughter as an integral part of the Wrestlemania headliner, if the promos are to be believed).

What has happened to the WWF?

Steph
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Wyn
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#2 Posted on 11.3.02 2323.17
Reposted on: 11.3.09 2325.56
Sad to say, but I agree with you. I've found precious little in recent storylines that were interesting. There are some vicious loop-holes that will more than likely cause the WWF to implode, if they don't do something worthwhile soon. Deus ex machina seems to be their favored method to solve problems of late. Disappointing and frustrating.
MarchOfThePigs
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#3 Posted on 11.3.02 2327.43
Reposted on: 11.3.09 2328.01
I thought RAW was pretty good tonight. I don't buy pay per views so I really don't care if the build up for the ppv matches is awesome or totally sucks. I watch RAW, and that's about it. I watch for 2 hours on monday nights, it's like my fun time of the week. RAW wasn't a show I would go back and watch again some time later this week, but for two hours on a monday night it was just fine in my books. The Vince/Flair stuff was utterly retarded though and a big waste of time. And if I were buying WM I would question the WWF's choice in allowing Rock and Hogan to fight each other on free tv, when Sunday was supposed to be their first meeting ever. I guess since Hogan won, that means that Rock gets his heat back at WM. The whole Jericho/Stephanie/Lucy/Triple H stuff was pretty dumb but in a weird stupid way it was fun. The wrestling was ok, so there's not really much more I can ask for on a monday night.
Swordsman Yen
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#4 Posted on 12.3.02 0023.36
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0029.01
Well, let's disect this crapfest...

Geez, more lame ass jokes centering around HHH's and Steph's "divorce". Does anybody in that creative staff remember that the HHH/Jericho feud is supposed to be about THE UNDISPUTED WORLD TITLE? Or is it all about Steph? She seems to be in the center of everything having to do with the HHH/Jericho feud. Let's have a drinking game for how many times HHH gets a chance to pedigree Steph only for Y2J to save her. Or better yet, how about the number of times HHH gets to play a divorce joke on Steph so we could hear that melodious bitch whine of hers. For crying out loud, they're booking their champion to be her man servant! I think Vince's nickname should be Coppola, since he wants to put his daughter in front of the camera even though she sucks.

Props to Stephanie (the one who started the thread, not the other one) for pointing out the major loophole in the Flair/Vince storyline. I thought the same thing when I was watching the show. When the WWF isn't practicing nepotism, they're just downright careless in the storytelling.

I'm underwhelmed about Wrestlemania this year. The midcard matches haven't been given the proper buildup, the world title match is basically a love letter to the owner's daughter from the owner's daughter, and the battle of the icons leaves a lot of doubts since Hogan's best ring work in the main event tonight was avoiding The Rock. If this is the best the WWF can do these days, I have a bad feeling about the things yet to come.
Notorious F.A.B.
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#5 Posted on 12.3.02 0038.11
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0040.09

    Originally posted by Swordsman Yen
    Well, let's disect this crapfest...


i think you've just stumbled upon the point of the internet.

KUDOS!
Super Shane Spear
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#6 Posted on 12.3.02 0055.06
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0059.04
I'm sorry to be the happy clown in the midst of this tragedy, but I really liked both RAW and the propect of how Wrestlemania. Let's back up for one second about the storylines. I can understand that if may not be the best thing to come up with a feud one week before Wrestlemania, but ISN'T IT THE MATCH THAT COUNTS? It's like a lot of the critics want it both ways, a supurb storyline, and a five-star match. Well, I'm sorry guys, but most of the people that produce the best matches really aren't that good at promos or stories or even talking in general. Take Edge's promo tonight, it was BRUTAL!! I mean BRU-TAL!! But I don't care, because he's going to fight Booker at Wrestlemania. That's awesome. Do you really want RVD in your 20-minute promos? No, but I'll sit and watch him fight Regal for 12-14 minutes any day.

On the other side of the fence, there's the nWo. Yes, they make look like the biggest bunch of sissies in our eyes. Did anybody ever stop to think that this may just be because they are heels? Hell, DX looked cowardly. The Fac-gime sure looked cowardly. Even the holy Hart Foundation (stable) attacked blindly and then took their beatings. That's how wrestling has always been. Because the nWo are heels they will get their asses kicked, ESPECIALLY on hot tags. No, Hogan v Rock will not be the match of the internet's year, but it sure as hell will be interesting. I think tonight's crowd proved that. After all, they still popped for Hogan EVERY time he entered the ring.

Look at Wrestlemania. I say it's loaded and could be the best ever, why does everyone else see otherwise?

(I will, however, conscede the HHH-Steph point because everyone is right about that.)

ironcladlou
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#7 Posted on 12.3.02 0101.33
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0104.08

    Let us take you back three paragraphs ago
    Do you really want RVD in your 20-minute promos?


Actually, yeah, that'd be kind of interesting. We could start a pool as to how far into the 20 minutes it would take him to bust out "Oh...man, I'm so fucking stoned."
The Vile One
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#8 Posted on 12.3.02 0223.53
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0229.03
No Shane Spear, its not just the match that counts. Because if WWF puts on 4 weeks of crappy television, that will get less people to buy the show. Despite the prospect of a lot of great matches. WWF just books Rock/Hogan. Ok, so how are you going to get us there? They need to get fans excited about the matches and buying Wrestlemania and ppv's by putting on the best television possible, something they don't really like to do.

I remember Fully Loaded 2000. I attended it in Dallas, it was a tremendous PPV with some great matches, but WWF did a very poor job building it up and having some compelling television before it, and the ppv buyrate suffered as a result. However Summerslam 2000 buildup produced bad tv and a bad ppv.
oldschoolhero
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#9 Posted on 12.3.02 0305.50
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0305.56
First off, you're nuts if you think SummerSlam 2000 was a bad pay-per-view.

And Shane, I agree with you. The WWF could be firing on all cylinders in terms of stories, and all we would here about is the decrease in match quality. The WWF could put on **** matches at TV every week, and all we'd here about is the lack of buildup. Personally, I'm looking forward to Mania, as there's the potential for great matches there. Isn't that what being a smark is all about? ;)
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#10 Posted on 12.3.02 0439.43
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0441.54
Side note on Shane's Edge promo comment:

Memo To Edge: BOOKER WASN'T UPSET ABOUT NOT GETTING A TITLE SHOT. That was Kurt. Booker was upset about not getting the shampoo commercial. You know, the one YOU got?

Old saying goes, if the guy doesn't care about his own storyline, why should we?

Edge TWICE gave the wrong reason as to why Booker was angry, and it really distracted me from what COULD have been a good segment, had they chopped off 5 minutes and had established:

a) Why Booker came out to interrupt Kurt, from a common sense standpoint (and not a Get Big Show On Tonight standpoint)

b) Why we should think Edge is cool, since he's not anymore

and

c) Why they'd mention the Weakest Link stuff since THE GUY WHO WON IT LAST NIGHT WASN'T GOING TO BE THERE (selling an injury, no less) AND HAD A MAJOR ISSUE WITH KURT.

(edited by Ubermonkeys on 12.3.02 0541)
evilwaldo
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#11 Posted on 12.3.02 0730.06
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0730.42
"why does everyone else see otherwise?"

Because they have not given us a reason to care about any of the matches outside of Rock/Hogan and Austin/Hall. Do I care about the Tag Team titles? Why should I care about DDP/Christian? What is the purpose of the the womens match or Edge/Booker T? By this time we should be hating the heels and hoping that they get their due at Wrestlemania. But unfortunately, we are stuck watching 6 lane highways being built through the loopholes in the WWF's booking.
wannaberockstar
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#12 Posted on 12.3.02 0739.47
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0740.18
[UltraDorkMode]
That was, without a doubt, the worst episode ever!
[/UltraDorkMode]

Remember a time when the person with the title belt was actually, you know, the focus of the federation?

I thought the nWo was supposed to be some kind of poison to the WWF? Instead we get them in the last fifteen minutes.. oh wait, that's probably a good thing.

Dog angle? I dunno, I thought it was kinda dumb. But then again, they have to find someway to overshadow the fact that Jericho is the champ and make it into a McMahon feud instead.

Like it was said earlier in a post, why should I care about the other matches on WrestleMania?

Bah. Not quite the ultra hot buildup show for the superbowl of wrestling one would of hoped.
LeechOfTheNight
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#13 Posted on 12.3.02 0827.04
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0827.38

    Originally posted by Ubermonkeys
    Side note on Shane's Edge promo comment:

    Memo To Edge: BOOKER WASN'T UPSET ABOUT NOT GETTING A TITLE SHOT. That was Kurt. Booker was upset about not getting the shampoo commercial. You know, the one YOU got?

    Old saying goes, if the guy doesn't care about his own storyline, why should we?

    Edge TWICE gave the wrong reason as to why Booker was angry, and it really distracted me from what COULD have been a good segment, had they chopped off 5 minutes and had established:

    a) Why Booker came out to interrupt Kurt, from a common sense standpoint (and not a Get Big Show On Tonight standpoint)

    b) Why we should think Edge is cool, since he's not anymore

    and

    c) Why they'd mention the Weakest Link stuff since THE GUY WHO WON IT LAST NIGHT WASN'T GOING TO BE THERE (selling an injury, no less) AND HAD A MAJOR ISSUE WITH KURT.

    (edited by Ubermonkeys on 12.3.02 0541)



Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Booker mentioned something about not getting a title shot. It was kinda weird and came out of nowhere(why would you wait until 6 days before Wrestlemania to mention this?) That would justify what Edge said. Hmmm...maybe Edge wasn't the one afterall who wasn't paying attention...
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#14 Posted on 12.3.02 0830.40
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0831.03
"Do I care about the Tag Team titles?"

You should, Billy/Chuck/APA has already been established (and hopefully revived at Smackdown!) Hardys/Dudleys was brought back tonite, in a nice litte match.

"Why should I care about DDP/Christian?"

Oh I don't know maybe because they've had vignettes on EVERY show since they got together.

"What is the purpose of the the womens match or Edge/Booker T?"

They have taken a slow way of making a background to Edge/Booker T. Sure it's shampoo, but at least it's a storyline, that they are seeing through, with ZERO loopholes.

The Womens match, if you haven't noticed Trish improves by leaps and bounds everytime she's in the ring, and they brought out the psychology (even if the announcers missed it) by the looks Lita gave Trish after the match, because of the missed kick.

"But unfortunately, we are stuck watching 6 lane highways being built through the loopholes in the WWF's booking"

I don't see any loopholes in any of the booking, except the Vince/Flair angle. I do agree that Jericho should be more of the focus than Steph, but unfortunately (for all of us) that is her character. That means they are following through with Character Traits *GASP* storylines *GASP* OMG OMG THE WWF IS DOING EVERYTHING WE'RE SAYING THEY SHOULD BE [/sarcasm]
Eradicator
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#15 Posted on 12.3.02 0854.07
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0854.53
Wow. Well, I'm just gonna look past all the negativity going 'round because I enjoyed the show, and I don't want my Wrestlemania buzz killed.

Other points of Raw/WM that I don't think were touched on (unless I missed them while cruising past all the bitching).

*Does it look to anyone else that we are going to get Snow vs. Maven for the hardcore title now at 'Mania? That would be a pretty cool teacher vs. student scenario. Too bad it looks liek Goldust isn't going to have a spot on the card now.

*Well, it looks like it will be harder to do an Edge/Christian reunion at WM after the way Christian acted tonight. Unless they turn Edge heel, but it doesn't seem like they want to do that now. I think they are still in full on 'Edge face push' mode.

*I enjoyed the board meeting besides the loopholes eveyone has pointed out. But, as someone else said, those can be looked past by saying that those people are loyal to Vince (he did hire them and pay them well). It may not have had anything to do with wrestling, but I enjoyed it because it had the feel of the start of something HUGE. IT's history in the making, folks.

Oops, gotta run. More later.
odessasteps
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#16 Posted on 12.3.02 0936.02
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0946.25

My joke last night was that I expected Haku or Davey Boy Smith to come out and steal the dog for HHH.
evilwaldo
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#17 Posted on 12.3.02 0950.47
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0951.47
The tag team title match is really APA/AGD and Hardys/Dudleys. They need to show some tension between every team. Did the AGD really need to pick on Christian? They could have built tension between them and the Hardys and Dudleys.

I will agree with you about Trish and they are giving you some backstory between Trish and Lita but they need to build more heat between all of the ladies.

Christian/DDP they are moving to quickly. If they booked this right they could drag it on until KOTR building up Christian for a win there and then turning him on DDP when he becomes successful.

I have always felt that Wrestlemania is special and that this is the blowoff for months of buildup. The heels should be running wild and the fans looking forward to the date when they get their due. Filling out the card a week before gives it the feel of just another PPV and Wrestlemania is not just another PPV. It is the biggest event in this 'sport.' It is what everyone who watches at home waits for with anticipation. It is what everyone who works in this business dreams of headlining one day. It should be special and it just doesn't feel special. Yeah, Rock/Hogan is special but every match should feel special.
spf
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#18 Posted on 12.3.02 0956.36
Reposted on: 12.3.09 0957.12
Quoth "It's history in the making"

You mean kind of like the Invasion was right? I agree that one could see the seeds being lain in the board meeting for the big event of 2002, the much-discussed, even more-delayed split. But the Exxon Valdez was history too, and Vince and his merry band of bad bookers has shown themselves to be captains in the Joe Hazelwood mode the last year or so. Color me skeptical on this one. I hope it works out, as I prefer good exciting wrestling to bad wrestling involving dog poop on a carpet storylines.

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#19 Posted on 12.3.02 1019.23
Reposted on: 12.3.09 1019.23

    Originally posted by spf2119
    Quoth "It's history in the making"

    You mean kind of like the Invasion was right?





Yes, you're right! Just like the Invasion. No matter if it sucked or not, the Invasion was huge from a historical standpoint, and I was excited to see it. And I never said if this split will be good or bad history, did I? I just said I enjoy watching it go down because (just like the Invasion) it is HUGE historically speaking. Never before has the WWF split up into two seperate promotions, which could possibly be good for their wallets and our entertainment, or it could be a huge bust and damn near put them out of business. Either way, it is big news. The meeting skits last night had an aura of an industry changing event. Nothing will ever be the same, and it started with those vignettes last night. We could possibly be witnessing the demise of the World Wrestling Federation as we know it. And THAT, my friend, is history in the making.
Ubermonkeys
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#20 Posted on 12.3.02 1037.57
Reposted on: 12.3.09 1038.19
Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Booker mentioned something about not getting a title shot. It was kinda weird and came out of nowhere(why would you wait until 6 days before Wrestlemania to mention this?) That would justify what Edge said. Hmmm...maybe Edge wasn't the one afterall who wasn't paying attention...

First, I'll prove you right.

From CRZ:

"See, THEY'RE the reason I lost my Japanese endorsement deal...let alone a title shot. Don't you people get it? This is my first WrestleMania - and I ain't got no title shot! Hell, ain't even got the (I have no idea - "pr---"?) That ain't right, man - that ain't right!"

So yeah, he said it- BARELY. It still isn't his issue, or the issue between he and Edge. And like I said, it's not like that was even remotely the reason he was angry. And it WOULDN'T justify what Edge said.

So second, I'm inviting you to eat my ass.
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