The W
Views: 99976206
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Color chart | Log in for more!
24.10.07 0250
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Good Questions
This thread has 1 referral leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: Prev 1 2(1850 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (29 total)
DMC
Liverwurst
Level: 69

Posts: 838/1180
EXP: 2770346
For next: 99412

Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3476 days
Last activity: 3470 days
#21 Posted on 24.2.03 1855.38
Reposted on: 24.2.10 1856.40
Jag, sorry for being cryptic. My point was that historians and political scholars disagree about whether or not communist Russia represented "true Marxism" or "true communism." Some have pointed out that Marx called for some of the very things that Lenin and other Soviet leaders perpetrated; namely, violent revolution and doing whatever necessary to guarantee a socialist state.

DMC
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni
Level: 66

Posts: 537/1084
EXP: 2439802
For next: 22062

Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 2988 days
Last activity: 2985 days
#22 Posted on 24.2.03 2140.45
Reposted on: 24.2.10 2147.34
"Lastly, I'm not sure how Marx said that Russia, China, Vietnam, etc. were not ready for communist revolution since he died in 1883, 40 years before any of these countries tried it."

Marx called for a revolution of the urban, industrial proletariat. Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba etc. etc. did not have that.
Grimis
Scrapple
Level: 124

Posts: 1002/4700
EXP: 21585461
For next: 251201

Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1270 days
Last activity: 1067 days
#23 Posted on 25.2.03 0611.02
Reposted on: 25.2.10 0617.03

    Originally posted by Freeway420
    2) Marxism is theoretically perfect, and communism is the application of Marxism on the real world, where true Marxist beliefs are skewed by the inherent greed people have.

How exactly can Marxism be "perfect" if Marx forgets to take into account human nature and how it bastardizes the system. Furthermore, Marxism retards advancement of society by removing the incentives for improvement and hard work.
jentos
Cotto
Level: 16

Posts: 10/40
EXP: 16646
For next: 3611

Since: 16.12.02
From: Minneapolis

Since last post: 1960 days
Last activity: 262 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#24 Posted on 25.2.03 0941.06
Reposted on: 25.2.10 0941.22
Well, you gotta remember Marx wasn't a psychologist. His proposal was purely economic. Human nature was not in the calculation. That is the major difference between Marxism and Leninism.

Forced relocation doesn't work. However if the whole world is united under one leader, and relocations would be done to a better place (Like a bigger house or something) it might have.

Trail of Tears shows how Americans did it. But remember Americans didn't do it for peace, the did it for land. Big difference. If there's one unified ruler, then land belongs to one person. Which eleminates wars like (Israel/Palestine). And by forced relocation one could interpret guaranteed jobs and money. Not everything should be done with violence, you know.
PalpatineW
Lap cheong
Level: 77

Posts: 505/1528
EXP: 4084939
For next: 106209

Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 2831 days
Last activity: 2673 days
AIM:  
#25 Posted on 25.2.03 2114.28
Reposted on: 25.2.10 2117.31

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by Freeway420
      2) Marxism is theoretically perfect, and communism is the application of Marxism on the real world, where true Marxist beliefs are skewed by the inherent greed people have.

    How exactly can Marxism be "perfect" if Marx forgets to take into account human nature and how it bastardizes the system. Furthermore, Marxism retards advancement of society by removing the incentives for improvement and hard work.



When you suggest that human nature is a problem, and an obstacle to Marxism, you are surrendering the argument to the Marxists. Human nature doesn't "bastardize" Marxism; it's quite the other way around. Marxism and Communism subjugate the individual, and are anathema to freedom. (Kinda like liberalism).
kazhayashi81
Potato korv
Level: 54

Posts: 351/677
EXP: 1183156
For next: 50721

Since: 17.6.02
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Since last post: 2702 days
Last activity: 2652 days
AIM:  
#26 Posted on 26.2.03 0113.32
Reposted on: 26.2.10 0114.25
1.) What countries do you admire and why? And I don't mean a singular aspect, I mean as a whole.

New Zealand. I appreciate their free market, their approach to government, even if they still pledge loyalty to the Queen.

2.) Is communism /marxism every bit as inherently evil and oppressive as fascism?

I'd say they're both pretty fucking evil, just different reasons. Given a choice of one or the other, I'd move to New Zealand


3.) If someone handed you the keys to the kingdom and said "the world is yours, you can do with it as you please," what would you do that would make it better ?

End suffering of women and minorities in third world countries. Take the American concept of the seperation of church and state and apply it internationally.

4.) Is it possible for someone to not be a progressive without being stupid, uninformed, evil or greedy?

Substituting "progressive" with libertarian.. yeah, they can be naive


5.) Domestically, what would your policy changes be? What standard of living do people have a right to reasonably expect? And how would you accomplish all the things you wanted to do without destroying the dynamism of our economy which is the very thing that amasses this vast amount of wealth that you aspire to spend on other, more worthy things?

End so much of the national government's hands in every cookie jar. Stop spending millions of dollars busting potheads in Venice and hookers. I've never understood how it's illegal to sell something it's legal to give away. Provide everyone with opportunity to improve their lives. Take government out of practically everything. I remember an essay, written by Harry Browne, that compared the computer industry to education and the medical professions. While computers were largely driven by private businesses, they have improved drastically in customer service, performance, while decreasing in price. On the other hand, education and medical are both very closely ran by the government, and they've both gone down the shitter in the last 20 years.
EDIT: Here it is (wnd.com)

I saw a quote, I forget who said it, MAYBE Neal Boortz, that if you redistributed all the wealth in the US equally, within a year, essentially, everything would be exactly the way it is now. Those who are rich would keep doing what made them rich, and those who have self-destructive habits(drugs, binge spending, etc.) would be where they were. Some would improve, some would decrease, but overall, it would be the same.

(edited by kazhayashi81 on 26.2.03 0018)
Grimis
Scrapple
Level: 124

Posts: 1010/4700
EXP: 21585461
For next: 251201

Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1270 days
Last activity: 1067 days
#27 Posted on 26.2.03 0718.38
Reposted on: 26.2.10 0719.29

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    When you suggest that human nature is a problem, and an obstacle to Marxism, you are surrendering the argument to the Marxists. Human nature doesn't "bastardize" Marxism; it's quite the other way around. Marxism and Communism subjugate the individual, and are anathema to freedom. (Kinda like liberalism).

I disagree that human nature is surrending the argument. Human nature undermines Marxism regardless. I agree that it does subjugate the individual to the will of the state, human nature will tend to overcome the will of the state and defeat Marxism by producing inferior goods and providing crappy service to the state, thus destroying their economy.

Regardless, at least we agree that Marxist liberalism(I'm looking at YOU Daschle/Kerry/Dean etc) is evil.
messenoir
Summer sausage
Level: 45

Posts: 14/449
EXP: 647252
For next: 12917

Since: 20.2.02
From: Columbia, MO

Since last post: 546 days
Last activity: 413 days
AIM:  
#28 Posted on 26.2.03 2036.19
Reposted on: 26.2.10 2038.44
Russia was not communist or marxist. It was, if anything, a totalatrian state. I believe communism has good points, just as capitalism and socialism have good points. They also all have bad points.
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni
Level: 66

Posts: 541/1084
EXP: 2439802
For next: 22062

Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 2988 days
Last activity: 2985 days
#29 Posted on 26.2.03 2225.00
Reposted on: 26.2.10 2229.01
When did Dashcle argue for the rise of the proletariat and destruction of capitalism?
ALL ORIGINAL POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW AVAILABLE
Pages: Prev 1 2Thread ahead: Liberal Radio Is Planned by Rich Group of Democrats
Next thread: I have never been this pissed off at the French...........
Previous thread: Antoher Failed Experiement Ends
(1850 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
The 7 - Current Events & Politics - Good QuestionsRegister and log in to post!

The W™ message board - 7 year recycle

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim
This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.199 seconds.